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Staff member assaulted at Manchester Piccadilly

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Bertie the bus

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People seem to forget that he might be suffering from "mental health issues" so he, himself, is a victim. Apparently...
 
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diffident

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I'm going to comment briefly on the legal system per se and not on this case in particular... The reporting of 14 previous convictions doesn't give anything away. It could be convictions of speeding (and many other assorted motoring offences), civil offences (i.e. dog fouling, littering etc etc).

The sentencing will certainly have taken into account previous and recent convictions, plus what other circumstances the court determines to be considered. That includes for example a young child, possibly the only person earning in his household etc.

In no way take these comments as justification for the persons actions, which were abhorrent and definitely in my personal opinion, deserved a much heftier sentence than the one that was handed down.
 

800002

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There was slightly more within the article, RE the previous Convictions.
From same source as above, by syorksdeano.
In May he was convicted of criminal damage after smashing up a pub TV when he became ‘enraged at a VAR decision in a football match’.

Corr pleaded guilty to assault and was sentenced to 200 hours community service and ordered to pay £100 compensation with £175 costs.
 
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yorkie

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The court heard Corr, a customer service advisor, of Bird Hall Road, has nine previous convictions for 14 offences.
That's splitting hairs. What matters is 14 offences. Even if there were 'only' 9 it would be equally appalling. Unfortunately we allow people like this to get away with it.

And let's face it, realistically someone who has committed 14 offences will no doubt have done far more that they weren't convicted for.

We are far too soft on violent offences. I know some people strongly disagree with me but I stand by it.
 

800002

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That's splitting hairs.
I don't believe it is.

What matters is 14 offences. Even if there were 'only' 9 it would be equally appalling.
I agree, in part.
The 14 offences were not listed in full, within the article, so I shaln't be drawn on wheather it would be equally appaling or not. But I agree, the number of offences is somewhat important In concidering matters.
 

Mathew S

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That's splitting hairs. What matters is 14 offences. Even if there were 'only' 9 it would be equally appalling. Unfortunately we allow people like this to get away with it.

And let's face it, realistically someone who has committed 14 offences will no doubt have done far more that they weren't convicted for.

We are far too soft on violent offences. I know some people strongly disagree with me but I stand by it.
It's all well and good saying that "we are far too soft on violent offences" but if, as seems to be the case with this individual, the root cause is that he himself has been the victim of a violent crime, and is now suffering from PTSD, I do question the value of a criminal sentence when, perhaps, appropriate mental health treatment might be a more effective way of preventing him reoffending.
 

RichT54

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It's all well and good saying that "we are far too soft on violent offences" but if, as seems to be the case with this individual, the root cause is that he himself has been the victim of a violent crime, and is now suffering from PTSD, I do question the value of a criminal sentence when, perhaps, appropriate mental health treatment might be a more effective way of preventing him reoffending.

His defence said "he was thought to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder after being the victim of a knife attack". It wasn't stated that he has actually been diagnosed with PTSD.

Also, do we know if any of his 9 previous convictions occurred before the knife attack?
 

Antman

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Disgraceful sentencing.

He assaulted a woman in front of everyone. And his daughter.

And he has the nerve to blame someone else. Utter scumbag. Let’s hope he gets his just deserts and someone deals with in like he thinks he can behave.

This is why people don’t believe in the UK justice system. Every excuse is swallowed hook line and sinker to avoid putting more people into our already full prisons.

He needs keeping apart from his daughter. What will the poor girl learn with a violent father ... apart from that’s how men Behave. Let’s hope all of the train cos ban him. And hang the consequences.

They all claim it’s someone else. There’s a reason why someone else is to blame. People make excuses and say anything to avoid jail. He is an ambarrasent of a man. But I suspect he doesn’t really care. And people rarely just get stabbed. Most of the time it’s criminal idiots stabbing other criminal idiots . I think we know where this one is...
 

Mathew S

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His defence said "he was thought to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder after being the victim of a knife attack". It wasn't stated that he has actually been diagnosed with PTSD.

Also, do we know if any of his 9 previous convictions occurred before the knife attack?
Hence my, "if".
 

civ-eng-jim

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Disgraceful sentencing.

He assaulted a woman in front of everyone. And his daughter.

And he has the nerve to blame someone else. Utter scumbag. Let’s hope he gets his just deserts and someone deals with in like he thinks he can behave.

This is why people don’t believe in the UK justice system. Every excuse is swallowed hook line and sinker to avoid putting more people into our already full prisons.

He needs keeping apart from his daughter. What will the poor girl learn with a violent father ... apart from that’s how men Behave. Let’s hope all of the train cos ban him. And hang the consequences.

They all claim it’s someone else. There’s a reason why someone else is to blame. People make excuses and say anything to avoid jail. He is an ambarrasent of a man. But I suspect he doesn’t really care. And people rarely just get stabbed. Most of the time it’s criminal idiots stabbing other criminal idiots . I think we know where this one is...

It is evident from your post that the kind of justice you are looking for is retributive justice. You want to see the perpetrator get his "just deserts" and (possibly) thrown into prison or, going back a many few years, put in stocks, humiliated or flogged in public. I include in there the dehumanising of people who commit crimes by using labels like scumbag, thug, pervert, monster et cetera which are casually and routinely dished out by the public and tabloid media. What does this achieve? Perhaps a very brief feel good factor for the victim? A release of anger and a 'hurrah!' from the baying mob? But it provides no long-term benefit to society, if anything it causes more harm. Imprisoning people is costly and does very little to rehabilitate people who have committed crimes often resulting in them coming out more hardened than when they went in. The labeling of people who commit crimes will have long-term repercussions preventing them from turning their lives around and making a more positive contribution to society.

Alternatively you can take a restorative approach to justice whereby you seek to achieve a positive outcome for all parties and for society to be bettered too. There are various ways to do this and Norway as a great example of where restorative justice works. One of the lowest incarceration rates in the world and a very low crime rate.

The UK justice system is a bit of a mixed bag (in terms of being a restorative or retributive system) but is thankfully we are (in general) a civilised society where by and large we seek to find reasons why people commit crime and find means to try and prevent them happening them again. But as we live in an increasingly polarised society with a liberal centre left views on one side and right of centre on the other, there is a bit of a battle between what kind of justice we "dish out". Restorative justice is done half-heatedly with a bit of retributive justice thrown in for the sake of balance. The inevitable failure of this hotchpotch justice is more often than not wrongly attributed to the restorative element of the justice. I believe the lack of forgiveness in UK society has a detrimental effect on restorative justice.

Now, before I'm called a soft-touch liberal-lefty do-gooder snowflake terrorist sympathiser, I wholly understand that in the immediate moments, hours maybe days after being a victim of crime that it's human nature to want to see the person or persons who have just hit you in the face suffer the same humiliation plus a lot more. But once that immediate anger has receded to wish that humiliation continues on indefinitely is not justice by vengeance. (If you have seen the episode of Black Mirror "White Bear" you'll see what I mean)

Retributive justice may work in totalitarian and oppressive societies (China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia et cetera) but I believe it's a backward thinking mentality to think it should be applied in a free and liberal society.
 

farleigh

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That's splitting hairs. What matters is 14 offences. Even if there were 'only' 9 it would be equally appalling. Unfortunately we allow people like this to get away with it.

And let's face it, realistically someone who has committed 14 offences will no doubt have done far more that they weren't convicted for.

We are far too soft on violent offences. I know some people strongly disagree with me but I stand by it.
Good post
 

farleigh

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It is evident from your post that the kind of justice you are looking for is retributive justice. You want to see the perpetrator get his "just deserts" and (possibly) thrown into prison or, going back a many few years, put in stocks, humiliated or flogged in public. I include in there the dehumanising of people who commit crimes by using labels like scumbag, thug, pervert, monster et cetera which are casually and routinely dished out by the public and tabloid media. What does this achieve? Perhaps a very brief feel good factor for the victim? A release of anger and a 'hurrah!' from the baying mob? But it provides no long-term benefit to society, if anything it causes more harm. Imprisoning people is costly and does very little to rehabilitate people who have committed crimes often resulting in them coming out more hardened than when they went in. The labeling of people who commit crimes will have long-term repercussions preventing them from turning their lives around and making a more positive contribution to society.

Alternatively you can take a restorative approach to justice whereby you seek to achieve a positive outcome for all parties and for society to be bettered too. There are various ways to do this and Norway as a great example of where restorative justice works. One of the lowest incarceration rates in the world and a very low crime rate.

The UK justice system is a bit of a mixed bag (in terms of being a restorative or retributive system) but is thankfully we are (in general) a civilised society where by and large we seek to find reasons why people commit crime and find means to try and prevent them happening them again. But as we live in an increasingly polarised society with a liberal centre left views on one side and right of centre on the other, there is a bit of a battle between what kind of justice we "dish out". Restorative justice is done half-heatedly with a bit of retributive justice thrown in for the sake of balance. The inevitable failure of this hotchpotch justice is more often than not wrongly attributed to the restorative element of the justice. I believe the lack of forgiveness in UK society has a detrimental effect on restorative justice.

Now, before I'm called a soft-touch liberal-lefty do-gooder snowflake terrorist sympathiser, I wholly understand that in the immediate moments, hours maybe days after being a victim of crime that it's human nature to want to see the person or persons who have just hit you in the face suffer the same humiliation plus a lot more. But once that immediate anger has receded to wish that humiliation continues on indefinitely is not justice by vengeance. (If you have seen the episode of Black Mirror "White Bear" you'll see what I mean)

Retributive justice may work in totalitarian and oppressive societies (China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia et cetera) but I believe it's a backward thinking mentality to think it should be applied in a free and liberal society.
Well the restorative approach did not work the previous nine times so......
 

Bertie the bus

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I include in there the dehumanising of people who commit crimes by using labels like scumbag, thug, pervert, monster et cetera which are casually and routinely dished out by the public and tabloid media. What does this achieve? Perhaps a very brief feel good factor for the victim? A release of anger and a 'hurrah!' from the baying mob? But it provides no long-term benefit to society, if anything it causes more harm. Imprisoning people is costly and does very little to rehabilitate people who have committed crimes often resulting in them coming out more hardened than when they went in. The labeling of people who commit crimes will have long-term repercussions preventing them from turning their lives around and making a more positive contribution to society.

Alternatively you can take a restorative approach to justice whereby you seek to achieve a positive outcome for all parties and for society to be bettered too. There are various ways to do this and Norway as a great example of where restorative justice works. One of the lowest incarceration rates in the world and a very low crime rate.
If people don’t want to be labelled as filth they shouldn’t behave like filth. All this hug a hoodie nonsense is precisely that – nonsense. They just take the huggers for the mugs they are.
 

farleigh

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It's all well and good saying that "we are far too soft on violent offences" but if, as seems to be the case with this individual, the root cause is that he himself has been the victim of a violent crime, and is now suffering from PTSD, I do question the value of a criminal sentence when, perhaps, appropriate mental health treatment might be a more effective way of preventing him reoffending.
I do have to question why some people seem to prefer to offer 'treatment' to a man who has just punched an innocent member of staff in the face.
There is a responsibility on the courts to protect people from thugs like this. They have had ample opportunity and have failed repeatedly. Implicitly, the courts actually encourage these people and are responsible - indirectly - for people getting violently assaulted. IMO of course.
 
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ExRes

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I can't see the point in complaining about yet another joke 'sentence', it seems that everyone wants a liberal society and that's exactly what's happening, never blame anyone for anything is todays motto, a little smack on the wrist and don't worry, its not your fault
 

DarloRich

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Could we just save time by a mod adding a note like @yorkie has done to every thread like this and then locking it as debate isnt possible and sensible posts are lost in an orgy of self righteous indignation
 

Pete_uk

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We live in a country where a serious assault can get you a £500 fine but let your dog foul the pavement and it's £1000.

If he needs help let him get it, but somewhere where he isn't a risk to the public
 

Mountain Man

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It's all well and good saying that "we are far too soft on violent offences" but if, as seems to be the case with this individual, the root cause is that he himself has been the victim of a violent crime, and is now suffering from PTSD, I do question the value of a criminal sentence when, perhaps, appropriate mental health treatment might be a more effective way of preventing him reoffending.
I tend to agree. Rehabilitation is more important than punishment
 

Mountain Man

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People like yourself actually encourage these people and are responsible - indirectly - for people getting violently assaulted. I would find that difficult to live with. IMO of course.
That's probably the most offensive thing I've ever read on here.

Its perfectly legitimate to have different views on the criminal justice system without resorting to such offensive and inflammatory remarks
 

Antman

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I spent time arguing for proper sentencing whilst studying law with my oxford tutors. They were all soft on crime. The difference from one lefty published specialist tuto on rights of criminals when he had his own bicycle stolen was marked. He lived in a bubble. Textbooks was where he’d learned it all. He was all for ‘dominion’, as it was then... that the idea is the least impact on everyone for punishment. He was apoplectic when a Blackird Leys toerag nicked his bike. Wanted him strung up.

Punishment and sentencing many aims. Protection, deterrence are also pretty high. Do we care more about the offender, or the victim? If you ask the People, they want stiff sentences, they want incarceration, they want to ensure that they are safe from violent criminals. They don’t want them out there. Others believe they can change people and rehabilitate and ‘cure’ them. And those tend tend to be fanatical that they’re right...

If this cretin were locked up, he’d not have been out to punch this poor lady. It’s fairly clear that if you remove a small number of people from circulation, crime levels plummet. Huge cost and emotional savings for society.

New York became a safe place to walk. Because of due process and proper punishment. Not crime control and empathy. I am off for breakfast with Judge Jeffries and Harold Callahan.
 

Monty

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As a uniformed member of staff the impression I have gotten lately is that we are basically fair game to he verbally abused and physically assaulted. You only have to look at the video to see this wasn't some 'scuffle' but a full on blow to the head, I can't help but think if this had been a domestic issue (ie one partner striking another) it would of been dealt with much differently. 200 hours of community service basically means he'll spending his Sunday mornings picking up fag packets for the next few months, I am yet to be convince if this is an appropriate sentence. No doubt a few of you will disagree with me but it's how I feel.
 

Antman

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I'm not normally one for online kangaroo courts but I am amazed how this thug has avoided a custodial sentence particularly in view of his previous. Even more amazing is that somebody apparently employs him as a customer service advisor, what a great advert for any company he must be!

I would have thought this was serious enough for crown court rather than magistrates but obviously not.
 

Bucephalus

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Unfortunately whatever it is that some of us (me included) would like to see happen to this guy - has probably already happened (I'm not on about the PTSD excuse). This is why he is the way he is.

DarloRich said:
Could we just save time by a mod adding a note like @yorkie has done to every thread like this and then locking it as debate isnt possible and sensible posts are lost in an orgy of self righteous indignation

Whoops!
 

Kingspanner

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Since some of us are clearly foaming at the mouth I'll take leave of my senses and join in. I'll lock up anyone you want as long as I can have 5p on income tax to start a crash program of prison building and recruiting and paying the necessary guards, and dealing with the fallout of the people no longer working. I presume you'll be okay when people you know and rely on start to disappear. Make sure you don't make a mistake and hurt someone or you'll be in prison too.
Here's an extreme policy - deal with burglars by making insurance companies sponsor prison places and (and here's the genius) let the insurance companies decide who to put in them!
Or, try a democratic civilisation instead.
 

DarloRich

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I spent time arguing for proper sentencing whilst studying law with my oxford tutors. They were all soft on crime. The difference from one lefty published specialist tuto on rights of criminals when he had his own bicycle stolen was marked. He lived in a bubble. Textbooks was where he’d learned it all. He was all for ‘dominion’, as it was then... that the idea is the least impact on everyone for punishment. He was apoplectic when a Blackird Leys toerag nicked his bike. Wanted him strung up.

Punishment and sentencing many aims. Protection, deterrence are also pretty high. Do we care more about the offender, or the victim? If you ask the People, they want stiff sentences, they want incarceration, they want to ensure that they are safe from violent criminals. They don’t want them out there. Others believe they can change people and rehabilitate and ‘cure’ them. And those tend tend to be fanatical that they’re right...

If this cretin were locked up, he’d not have been out to punch this poor lady. It’s fairly clear that if you remove a small number of people from circulation, crime levels plummet. Huge cost and emotional savings for society.

New York became a safe place to walk. Because of due process and proper punishment. Not crime control and empathy. I am off for breakfast with Judge Jeffries and Harold Callahan.

I am all for locking scroats up and am very happy to do so but we need to be honest about what that will cost. We already have a large prison population contained in prisons that are vastly over capacity and vastly under resourced yet the crime rate isnt falling.

If we want to lock more people up for longer ( and I do) we need:
  • More prison space (perhaps including building in nice, safe, middle class areas)
  • More prison officers
  • Higher wages for prison officers
  • More police
  • Higher wages for police
  • More Judges
  • More lawyers doing criminal work
  • Better legal aid ( I know this is presented by the Daily Hate as evil but it really isnt and is essential to the operation of a fair justice system)
  • More court staff
  • More forensic staff
  • More forensic laboratories
  • More police support staff
  • More and better drug rehabilitation programmes
  • More and better penal education systems
  • Better mental health care and support (both within the prison system and generally)
  • More probation staff
  • More bail hostels ( see point 1!)
  • More and better opportunities for ex cons
  • Better education about the law and the legal system

That means more government funding and a higher tax rate. Still keen?

We also need people to be honest and admit they would be happy for the system to apply to them just as much as the scroats. I know that you and other posters would never ever come before the court ( unlike this scum bag) because you are a decent person but the reality is it is very different. I have seen many decent people in court and convicted often because they made a mistake or lost control once.

It is funny how views change when confronted by that and what they actually mean is that the rules should apply to the scum and not decent people like them. I am also sure that if you and others did come before the court you wouldn't instruct a lawyer to try and mitigate your sentence, would pleased guilty immediately to the highest crime possible and insist upon the maximum sentence available. Course you wouldn't yet it is awful when the scum try this.

Like I said: I am very happy ( and want) to lock people up for a long time for minor crimes, but I am at least honest enough to admit that this will cost us and that there isn't a magic wand that can be waved, today, to meet the kind of sentencing structure I want to see.

BTW - my views aren't based on textbook knowledge but on actual, hands on knowledge. I still have friends in that system from the criminal to the judge. I wonder how many posters commenting have such contacts?

PS: If you aren't happy then get involved. Anyone without a record can apply to be a magistrate. More magistrates are needed, especially from the BAME community: https://www.gov.uk/become-magistrate/apply-to-be-a-magistrate
 
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Antman

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To give some sort of comparison a thug who pushed rather than punched a traffic warden in Sheerness was jailed for two years for GBH rather than assault at Maidstone Crown Court.

The disparity between the two sentences is quite remarkable.
 

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DarloRich

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To give some sort of comparison a thug who pushed rather than punched a traffic warden in Sheerness was jailed for two years for GBH rather than assault at Maidstone Crown Court.

The disparity between the two sentences is quite remarkable.


This kind of comparison isnt helpful as you are not comparing like with like. Even the screenshot you presented shows the difference in injury and level of aggression to the situation under discussion.
 
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