Staff walkout at Manchester Vic last night (08/06)?

[LowLevel]

Seeing reports about that the platform staff at Manchester Victoria walked off the job last night due to abusive passengers, any knowledge?

I can only speak for myself but the general behaviour around towns and cities on Saturday nights in particular is appalling so I wouldn't be surprised if something had given - we've had a few problems week after week on our patch with trains getting trashed, crews and station staff assaulted and mass (20-30+ people) riots on trains and spilling out onto platforms for a while.

I should point out it's not a new thing though - our area has very few late trains as a legacy from BR pulling them due to anti social behaviour in the 90s.

 

[175001]

Yep
Piccadilly sent a load of angry drunk, drugged up Parklife crowd over to Vic to get the last trains towards Leeds, which had already long gone.

Staff were threatened with violence, and rightly so the staff walked away from it all.

Abuse will not be tolerated

I'd love to go to their place of work on a Monday morning and give them the level of abuse they gave my colleagues last night....

 

[Jonfun]

Very sad if that is the case, workforce assault and abuse is high priority for various industry parties and, of course, every member of staff is perfectly entitled to invoke the worksafe policy if they feel they can't carry out a given duty safely. Hopefully Northern management will be able to review alongside the BTP to put a plan in place to reduce the chances of it happening again.

 

[TUC]

Not defending the behaviour at all, but why were they sent to Victoria by Piccadilly if the last train had already departed?

 

[404250]

Drugged up festival crowd should be peaceful!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not defending the behaviour at all, but why were they sent to Victoria by Piccadilly if the last train had already departed?

And why weren't the BTP dealing with this?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Drugged up festival crowd should be peaceful!

Depends what they're drugged up with. I doubt it was a few spliffs.

 

[404250]

If no train was cancelled there's nothing to moan about. They should check the train times in advance.

 

[404250]

Depends what they're drugged up with. I doubt it was a few spliffs.

Ecstacy usually, which shouldn't make them aggressive unless they're complete nobs - possibly the case here I suppose

 

[Ianigsy]

From looking at TPE's Twitter, it seems that a late service back to Yorkshire was turned at Victoria following a points failure at Oxford Road. This may be why people were sent across from Piccadilly.

There seems to be a particular issue with the service resilience on a Saturday evening, though- a colleague was telling me that she'd been to see the Spice Girls the previous Saturday, gone for a drink afterwards and found the last train back to Leeds cancelled. Coaches were laid on, however one intending passenger wasn't allowed to board with his dog and an "animated discussion" ensued.

 

[bionic]

And why weren't the BTP dealing with this?

Because they are always 45 minutes away.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because they are always 45 minutes away.

They're 45 minutes away in central Manchester?

That gives credibility to the idea that the job (when it comes to things not requiring access to the live railway line) should go to local plod instead, surely? GMP could have been there in minutes.

 

[bionic]

They've always been "45 minutes away" whenever I've needed them.

 

[LowLevel]

Yep
Piccadilly sent a load of angry drunk, drugged up Parklife crowd over to Vic to get the last trains towards Leeds, which had already long gone.

Staff were threatened with violence, and rightly so the staff walked away from it all.

Abuse will not be tolerated

I'd love to go to their place of work on a Monday morning and give them the level of abuse they gave my colleagues last night....

Ah, I had one of those threaten to drop me because I wouldn't let him play his music out loud on a speaker to the annoyance of those around him while also sloshing beer everywhere and kicked him off the train after the third (polite) time of asking him to pack it in.

 

[jamesst]

They're 45 minutes away in central Manchester?

That gives credibility to the idea that the job (when it comes to things not requiring access to the live railway line) should go to local plod instead, surely? GMP could have been there in minutes.

You'll find local police are equally stretched these days, railway work never features highly unless it's a major incident...

 

[RJ]

Not defending the behaviour at all, but why were they sent to Victoria by Piccadilly if the last train had already departed?

There's a massively relaxed attitude on the railways towards giving out wrong information to punters, because those doing it aren't the ones that have to deal with the fallout.

There's a similarly relaxed attitude to passing problems on - one Sunday at 4am I was at Brighton and there was a massive group of youngsters running around the station, jumping over and crawling under the barriers and generally creating a nuisance. Instead of calling the police, the desicion was made to let them board the train to "clear them of the platform." They proceeded to steam up and down the train, robbing anyone who was sleeping. There was a guard on the train, who was nowhere to be seen or heard during any of this and the BTP never showed. The youths got off at East Croydon with their loot and were seen running rings around the platform staff there! I think a large station with police close by passing the problem onto a train with only 2 members of staff on is unacceptable personally.

Maybe a few more staff standing up for themselves in this manner of those at Manchester Victoria will focus the minds of those who allow these things to happen. If it was a small number of people they could maybe call taxis to get rid of them but a large number, close up shop and let them wait for the next scheduled service if there's a risk of further abuse. Good on them.

 

[RJ]

They've always been "45 minutes away" whenever I've needed them.

That's probably because you have colleagues tying them up over stupid things, like dealing with passengers who have valid tickets that they don't like/understand. These usually have 3 or 4 BTP officers turning up in a very short space of time. However TOC management fully support them being used for trivial non-incidents and unless something changes, you will continue to have to wait for extended periods when you have a genuine emergency.

I believe the BTP should be called for emegencies only, but there are a lot of people who call them purely to get one over on a customer, where they feel their pride has been dented.

 

[Spartacus]

I can imagine them being told at Pic that the 2335 would be starting from Vic and if they didn't hang around they'd be able to make it, otherwise they'd have to wait for the 0123. Then they took their time making their minds up, probably called in somewhere for some tins for the train home and/or stopped for a drink/deal on the way, stopped because of aching feet due to silly shoes three times, then were most surprised that their train was somewhere over the Pennines when they got to Victoria after what probably seemed like only 5 minutes in their befuddled state.

I've seen people waste any useful time they've had enough times to know to give them a pessimistic view. Tell them to go as fast as they need to do and they'll go slower and miss it. Telling them they have less time than they really have reduces disappointment if they don't make it, and they're well pleased with themselves if they do.

 

[etr221]

From looking at TPE's Twitter, it seems that a late service back to Yorkshire was turned at Victoria following a points failure at Oxford Road. This may be why people were sent across from Piccadilly.

A look at RTT shows 1P47 cancelled Manchester Airport-Manchester Vic.; then almost right time departure thence (last train) to Yorkshire.

One is bound to ask what arrangement were made at Manchester Airport, Piccadilly or Oxford Road (whence it was cancelled) for passengers intending to travel on it. Telling them to make their way to Victoria, without any instructions to hold the train there for them, might - without excusing their subsequent behaviour - be described as dumping the problem in Victoria's hands, and the staff there in the s**t.

 

[gazzaa2]

Seeing reports about that the platform staff at Manchester Victoria walked off the job last night due to abusive passengers, any knowledge?

I can only speak for myself but the general behaviour around towns and cities on Saturday nights in particular is appalling so I wouldn't be surprised if something had given - we've had a few problems week after week on our patch with trains getting trashed, crews and station staff assaulted and mass (20-30+ people) riots on trains and spilling out onto platforms for a while.

I should point out it's not a new thing though - our area has very few late trains as a legacy from BR pulling them due to anti social behaviour in the 90s.

It wasn't a coincidence northern staff chose Saturday to strike.

I wish Saturday trains ran later (it can be hard making connections after matches when services stop early) but it'd mean more anti social behaviour.

 

[yorkie]

Excellent posts by @RJ.

Not much I can add really that hasn't already been mentioned.

Though I have to question this...

I can imagine them being told at Pic that the 2335 would be starting from Vic and if they didn't hang around they'd be able to make it..

It's unacceptable if passengers were told to make their own way to Victoria for this train; the train departed from there only 14 minutes after it was supposed to depart Piccadilly and it's quite a long walk!

The next one after that would be 0123 from Piccadilly (not calling at Victoria).

While the behaviour of passengers was utterly unacceptable, it was also somewhat predictable that something might kick off if people were sent to Victoria to get a train they had no realistic chance of getting.

 

[Spartacus]

Excellent posts by @RJ.

Not much I can add really that hasn't already been mentioned.

Though I have to question this...

It's unacceptable if passengers were told to make their own way to Victoria for this train; the train departed from there only 14 minutes after it was supposed to depart Piccadilly and it's quite a long walk!

The next one after that would be 0123 from Piccadilly (not calling at Victoria).

While the behaviour of passengers was utterly unacceptable, it was also somewhat predictable that something might kick off if people were sent to Victoria to get a train they had no realistic chance of getting.

Depends very much on when they were told, but at that time of night trying to find them any other means of travel to get across town might have taken them longer than them making their way there themselves. I can't say I've ever had an arranged taxi turn up in less than 15 minutes.

It's all speculation based on a great number of variables though, but I can't see transport being arranged any quicker than walking was possible, which would be doable within 15 minutes if you didn't hang around. Curious thing is that folk coming from Parklife probably came from Victoria in the 1st place, which perhaps wouldn't have helped their attitude.

 

[yorkie]

Depends very much on when they were told, but at that time of night trying to find them any other means of travel to get across town might have taken them longer than them making their way there themselves. I can't say I've ever had an arranged taxi turn up in less than 15 minutes.

It's all speculation based on a great number of variables though, but I can't see transport being arranged any quicker than walking was possible, which would be doable within 15 minutes if you didn't hang around. Curious thing is that folk coming from Parklife probably came from Victoria in the 1st place, which perhaps wouldn't have helped their attitude.

Anyone who was not in a strong position of being in a position to catch the train from Victoria should not have been advised to go there and should have had appropriate travel arranged from Piccadilly.

 

[Andyh82]

Although only half relevant in this case, it does show how awkward it is for the TPE service to go from both stations with some only calling at one not the other. The walk between the stations isn’t short and involves congested pavements.

 

[Spartacus]

Anyone who was not in a strong position of being in a position to catch the train from Victoria should not have been advised to go there and should have had appropriate travel arranged from Piccadilly.

Personally I'd rather give them the pessimistic facts and let them make their own decision (for instance if I thought they had about a 50% chance I'd suggest it was only 25%, if only 25% say they really couldn't do it, knowing I might give it a go if it was me), but the crux of the matter is that we don't know at all how strong a position they were in. I've known people who've been told they've half an hour for a connection that should take 5 minutes, so they've gone to the pub for the whole 30 minutes and missed their service.

 

[TUC]

Excellent posts by @RJ.

Not much I can add really that hasn't already been mentioned.

Though I have to question this...

It's unacceptable if passengers were told to make their own way to Victoria for this train; the train departed from there only 14 minutes after it was supposed to depart Piccadilly and it's quite a long walk!

The next one after that would be 0123 from Piccadilly (not calling at Victoria).

While the behaviour of passengers was utterly unacceptable, it was also somewhat predictable that something might kick off if people were sent to Victoria to get a train they had no realistic chance of getting.

I did the walk on Friday evening and, even going at a fast pace, it took 19 minutes. As with others, no excuse for their behaviour, but also no excuse for Piccadilly staff apparently failing to look after their passengers.

 

[DanDaDriver]

That's probably because you have colleagues tying them up over stupid things, like dealing with passengers who have valid tickets that they don't like/understand. These usually have 3 or 4 BTP officers turning up in a very short space of time. However TOC management fully support them being used for trivial non-incidents and unless something changes, you will continue to have to wait for extended periods when you have a genuine emergency.

I believe the BTP should be called for emegencies only, but there are a lot of people who call them purely to get one over on a customer, where they feel their pride has been dented.

Would you like some salt and vinegar for that chip?

 

[yorkie]

Would you like some salt and vinegar for that chip?

Oh the irony!

But @RJ speaks the truth.

 

[northernchris]

Coaches were laid on, however one intending passenger wasn't allowed to board with his dog and an "animated discussion" ensued.

That's an interesting point, as the service wasn't planned to be operated by road transport in advance surely TPE should have arranged suitable transport so the passenger could travel with his dog?

Unfortunately I'm not surprised TPE bear some of the blame for what happened last night, from my experience their staff are very keen to pass you on to someone else when problems occur. Hopefully once the events have been reviewed protocols will be amended so staff / stations can take responsibility there and then rather than allow issues to escalate

 

[Starmill]

A passenger due to travel on a train shouldn't be turned away because their dog that would have been conveyed by train won't be by the operator of the replacement bus.

But it's not completely clear if that is actually what happened or not.