Stagecoach East Scotland

[RomeoCharlie71]

According to posts on the Stagecoach UK Enthusiasts page on Facebook, new vehicles LG23 EZU (30030) BYD ADL E200EV and LG23 EZX (14071) BYD ADL E400EV have entered service today in Perth and Dunfermline respectively. The former is already tracking on bustimes.org, the latter is not yet.

Plenty other new electrics are out in service today but I guess they haven't been reported yet because the armchair spotters can't see them on Bus Times!

 

[PaulMc7]

Plenty other new electrics are out in service today but I guess they haven't been reported yet because the armchair spotters can't see them on Bus Times!

To be fair though, if you were a spotter it would actually be quite smart to wait on them tracking on there before going to look for them and take photos especially if you're not from the area. It's not 100% accurate but it's certainly worth using the site as a guide if spotting is something that you do.

I remember one time overhearing a spotter talking to a driver at Dunfermline saying they had travelled from Aberdeen and used the site to keep tabs on what they were looking for.

I'm not a spotter by any means but it's good logic to have. It's also fine that people don't go spotting but notice these things too especially if they're not people with insider knowledge of a depot or company.

 

[Fifescottish]

According to posts on the Stagecoach UK Enthusiasts page on Facebook, new vehicles LG23 EZU (30030) BYD ADL E200EV and LG23 EZX (14071) BYD ADL E400EV have entered service today in Perth and Dunfermline respectively. The former is already tracking on bustimes.org, the latter is not yet.

What service are Dunfermline getting new double decks for?

 

[roadierway77]

What service are Dunfermline getting new double decks for?

I'm not sure how many electric deckers Dunfermline will be receiving, perhaps someone who has greater knowledge can assist. For now the singular E400EV 14071 seems like it will appear on town routes 1, 2, 3 and 5. Neither the 200EVs or 400EVs have enough range for a full day on the town services (though they might for the 3/5 diagram as it's shorter) so I imagine the eventual practice will be to swap out electrics in the afternoon/evening for another.

By the way, it looks like 14071 is double tracking under 54510's ticket machine at the moment based on my observations and weird trackings on bustimes.org, hard to tell of course but I doubt a Panther LE is on the 1/1A this morning.

 

[fife_circle]

I’ve noticed some of the new electric 200MMC’s have physical external mirrors and some have the cameras in place of mirrors. Is there a reason they don’t all have the cameras?

 

[PG]

I’ve noticed some of the new electric 200MMC’s have physical external mirrors and some have the cameras in place of mirrors. Is there a reason they don’t all have the cameras?

I don't have a definitive answer but possibly it is a trial to evaluate the cameras? I imagine that they currently cost more than mirrors too?

 

[Volvodart]

It was said there was a shortage of the requisite parts and they will get the cameras in due course.

 

[roadierway77]

The CAVForth scheme will finally be launching on May 15th. The following quote is from a Route One article, available at this link: https://www.route-one.net/news/cavforth-autonomous-service-to-commence-on-15-may/

Judging by the comments on the Dunfermline Press, most people seem to be very skeptical, and driverless buses are certainly a divisive issue, but regardless I believe it's an interesting technology that should at least be trialled.

CAVForth autonomous service to commence on 15 May​

Stagecoach East Scotland will launch its five Alexander Dennis Enviro200AV autonomous buses into passenger-carrying service on the CAVForth project from 15 May.

It follows successful registration of the service that will see the Enviro200AV fleet cover a 14-mile routes between Ferrytoll park-and-ride site in Fife and Edinburgh Park transport interchange. That will involve them running at up to 50mph across the Forth Road Bridge, observing what the operator says will be “a frequent timetable” and delivering capacity for up to 10,000 passenger journeys per week.

Two staff members will be aboard the buses when they are in service. A safety driver will be in the driver’s seat to monitor the technology and a ‘captain’ will be in the passenger area to check tickets and answer questions.

Driver training is currently underway, with 20 staff members to complete the course in preparation for May’s launch.

Stagecoach UK Managing Director Carla Stockton-Jones says: “We are excited to introduce the UK’s first autonomous bus fleet in East Scotland, which is also home to our headquarters and where it all began [for Stagecoach] over 40 years ago.

“We are proud to be at the forefront of transport innovation with this project that marks a significant milestone for public transport, and we look forward to welcoming our customers onboard in the coming months.”

A collaboration of partners including Stagecoach, Alexander Dennis, Fusion Processing, Transport Scotland, Edinburgh Napier University and Bristol Robotics Lab is delivering the CAVForth project.

“Our Enviro200AV autonomous buses will demonstrate the latest innovation in vehicle technology, and we are delighted that passengers travelling between Fife and Edinburgh will be able to experience this for themselves when the service launches next month,” says Alexander Dennis Head of Concepts and Advanced Engineering Jamie Wilson.

In February, the parties involved announced that a further stage of the CAVForth project – CAVForth2 – will later see the existing route lengthened to serve Dunfermline, adding more complex driving scenarios. The work will involve the creation of an autonomous version of the battery-electric Enviro100EV – the Enviro100AEV – by Alexander Dennis.

 

[Simon75]

The CAVForth scheme will finally be launching on May 15th. The following quote is from a Route One article, available at this link: https://www.route-one.net/news/cavforth-autonomous-service-to-commence-on-15-may/

Judging by the comments on the Dunfermline Press, most people seem to be very skeptical, and driverless buses are certainly a divisive issue, but regardless I believe it's an interesting technology that should at least be trialled.

Seems a waste of money, which looks very costly, at a time when bus companies are struggling

 

[overthewater]

Stagecoach aren't paying for it, so they would be draft not to grab free funding for routes that operate via the Park n rides.

 

[roadierway77]

Seems a waste of money, which looks very costly, at a time when bus companies are struggling

Stagecoach aren't paying for it, so they would be draft not to grab free funding for routes that operate via the Park n rides.

Yep the project is part-funded by the UK government, though I can't find how much of the £6.1m cost they paid for. Also I imagine that in the event of the trial going poorly or it not amounting to anything, the vehicles could be reconfigured and repurposed for other routes.

 

[Gaelan]

I'm not too familiar with the existing service patterns in that area, but this seems like a profoundly useless route? It's running between two out-of-the-way stations, on a route that already has many through bus and train routes. Are there really journeys where it makes sense to change onto a separate bus for just the leg across the Forth?

 

[PG]

Stagecoach aren't paying for it, so they would be draft not to grab free funding for routes that operate via the Park n rides.

With 2 staff members salaries to cover per bus I'm certain that Stagecoach aren't picking up the tab! Doubtless the experience gained will be very valuable for them though. I expect this will go the same way as the hovercraft experiment did back in 2007.
Do we know how long the service is planned to run for?

 

[BobbyBKinross]

With 2 staff members salaries to cover per bus I'm certain that Stagecoach aren't picking up the tab! Doubtless the experience gained will be very valuable for them though. I expect this will go the same way as the hovercraft experiment did back in 2007.
Do we know how long the service is planned to run for?

I'd hope until at least the end of the year. Any less would just seem silly.

 

[roadierway77]

I'm not too familiar with the existing service patterns in that area, but this seems like a profoundly useless route? It's running between two out-of-the-way stations, on a route that already has many through bus and train routes. Are there really journeys where it makes sense to change onto a separate bus for just the leg across the Forth?

There aren't currently any direct train or bus services from Fife to Edinburgh Park, which is a major employment area, but I also also have doubts about how many passengers on board will be non-enthusiasts/people hopping on just for the novelty. It seems the route has primarily been chosen so that autonomous vehicles spend as little time off the motorway as possible, as Edinburgh Park interchange is right next to the eastern terminus of the M8, hence why the route is not planned to continue any further. The chosen route seems to be less of a 'this is an untapped market that will see lots of passengers' and more 'well we need the autonomous bus to go somewhere so I guess this is simplest'.

I may actually end up using the route regularly as I live in Dunfermline and go to university at Heriot Watt (though it isn't exactly easy to get from Edinburgh Park to Riccarton) but I can't see the route being very busy outside of peak times, that is even if it is busy during peak times. The purpose of the trial seems to be to test the driverless buses, and less provide a useful route, and not to be cynical, but if something goes wrong, it's certainly much better if the bus is quiet than busy.

 

[Gaelan]

There aren't currently any direct train or bus services from Fife to Edinburgh Park, which is a major employment area, but I also also have doubts about how many passengers on board will be non-enthusiasts/people hopping on just for the novelty.

Ah, fair enough. There is the comparably priced (if you're over 21) 2tph ScotRail service from North Queensferry (or points north) to Edinburgh Gateway[1], though it's likely less frequent, and still leaves a 15 minute walk to Edinburgh Park proper.

[1]: A strong contender for most frustrating station on the ScotRail network, I would note.

 

[route101]

I look forward to giving this route a go.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Ah, fair enough. There is the comparably priced (if you're over 21) 2tph ScotRail service from North Queensferry (or points north) to Edinburgh Gateway[1], though it's likely less frequent, and still leaves a 15 minute walk to Edinburgh Park proper.

[1]: A strong contender for most frustrating station on the ScotRail network, I would note.

You could catch a tram between Gateway and Park stations, which might be marginally quicker than walking. But as you imply it's probably still the best part of 15 minutes up and down the stairs.

 

[OptareLover]

Does anyone know what is currently happening to the Optare Solos which are currently not in use? Have they been scrapped due to new EVs or is something else happening?

What do you prefer, standard E400MMC or B5LH E400MMC?

 

[Fifescottish]

Anyone know if there are any plans to bring in more coaches? A lot seem to be off the road these days and are constantly being substituted.

 

[overthewater]

Anyone know if there are any plans to bring in more coaches? A lot seem to be off the road these days and are constantly being substituted.

I don't think any new coaches are on order for Scotland, bar 4 for the new Citylink route in Aberdeenshire, which is a disgrace. They are now treating the express network like a cash cow.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I don't think anything coaches are on order for Scotland Bar 4 for New citylink route in Aberdeenshire, which is a disgrace. They are not treating the Express network like a Cash Cow.. .

Wasn't it said previously that the (then) new owners of Stagecoach were saving money by not allowing the purchase of coaches? Hence why the new vehicles on the Bluebird 35 are buses (E400MMC) replacing coaches, and similarly the 201 looks to be using E400MMCs where it previously used coaches. Sorry I don't know of any examples in the East Scotland area.

 

[overthewater]

Wasn't it said previously that the (then) new owners of Stagecoach were saving money by not allowing the purchase of coaches? Hence why the new vehicles on the Bluebird 35 are buses (E400MMC) replacing coaches, and similarly the 201 looks to be using E400MMCs where it previously used coaches. Sorry I don't know of any examples in the East Scotland area.

It might help if they actually brought some new stock but even then that not happening.. The real trouble is the oldest coaches are now 11-12 years old, there is no outlook for these getting replaced within the next year. Worse still, if they were to somehow make improvements the company would have to keep the old stock in use even if they bought 10 new coaches. Lets not even go near the X7.

 

[OptareLover]

If they are getting new ones, I honestly think it's a waste of money spent on repainting them, as there's not very many coaches in the fleet which haven't been repainted.
I guess none of the 2011 B9Rs have been repainted.

I hope 53722 isn't due to go anytime soon as her livery is stunning imo.

 

[PG]

Wasn't it said previously that the (then) new owners of Stagecoach were saving money by not allowing the purchase of coaches? Hence why the new vehicles on the Bluebird 35 are buses (E400MMC) replacing coaches, and similarly the 201 looks to be using E400MMCs where it previously used coaches. Sorry I don't know of any examples in the East Scotland area.

I'm not disagreeing with many of the coaches having seen better days but the 35 becoming operated by service buses predates the sale of Stagecoach, so nothing to do with the current owners (non) fleet replacement policy.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Despite no longer living in the area I too feel it is more than a bit sad at the state of vehicle condition on the express network just at the moment. Having one many passengers post pandemic as a result of train unreliability these passengers are now being subjected to vehicle substitutions, cancellations and breakdowns although admittedly not all the cancellations are fleet related due to the much publicized driver issues

Not good enough

 

[OptareLover]

The Arbroath 2015 Volvo B5LH / Alexander Dennis Enviro400 MMCs always breakdown, are slow and can hardly climb hills.

Recent transfers to Stagecoach East Scotland as per bustimes.org:
47875
47876
Does anyone know what depots these are at?
I've noticed a lot of SRs transferring, presumably to replace the Solos

 

[Jordan Adam]

47875/76 are at Peterhead and they're transferring to Arbroath.

47875 was withdrawn last weekend while 47876 was already VOR (vehicle off road) undergoing engine rebuild.

 

[OptareLover]

47875/76 are at Peterhead they're transferring to Arbroath.

47875 was withdrawn last weekend while 47876 was already VOR undergoing engine rebuild.

Arbroath seem to be getting quite a lot.
Do you know if any Solos have been withdrawn and these are replacements?

 

[roadierway77]

Despite no longer living in the area I too feel it is more than a bit sad at the state of vehicle condition on the express network just at the moment. Having one many passengers post pandemic as a result of train unreliability these passengers are now being subjected to vehicle substitutions, cancellations and breakdowns although admittedly not all the cancellations are fleet related due to the much publicized driver issues

Not good enough

Absolutely. The Panther LEs aren't too bad but the Elites are pretty knackered. Faulty doors, check lights always on on the dash, broken USB/plug sockets, poor aircon and rough ride quality.

Maintenance doesn't seem to be very good - last week I had 54515 on an X27 to Glasgow; vehicle got its brakes locked on just round the corner from Buchanan St and had to walk the rest of the way. Had the same vehicle on the X55 yesterday, the exact same thing happened just round the corner from Edinburgh bus station, though luckily the driver was able to get the coach moving again. The fact the vehicle still has the same serious problem 6 days after I first witnessed it is not acceptable.