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Stagecoach Minibuses now launched in Ashford

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Bletchleyite

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Am I missing something? If you permanently remove a seat from a '17 seat minibus' it becomes a '16 seat minibus' - or, perhaps it doesn't under Construction and Use, or whatever it's called now. Please clarify.

Yes. A "17 seat minibus" has 16 passenger seats plus one for the driver. The driver is not a passenger when considering the number of seats to determine whether D1 is applicable or not.
 
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Am I missing something? If you permanently remove a seat from a '17 seat minibus' it becomes a '16 seat minibus' - or, perhaps it doesn't under Construction and Use, or whatever it's called now. Please clarify.

do you levitate when driving a motor vehicle ?

a D1 vehicle with 17 physical seats is entirely legal as a D1 vehicle ... the 17th seat is for the driver ...
 

Busaholic

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do you levitate when driving a motor vehicle ?

a D1 vehicle with 17 physical seats is entirely legal as a D1 vehicle ... the 17th seat is for the driver ...

Heard something on the radio yesterday about a guy 6ft 6ins who pleaded guilty to dangerous or careless driving (not sure which) because he was driving with his head extended above the windscreen - I believe it was a convertible. Apparently the police thought he was standing up while driving, but he maintains he wasn't. As he pleaded guilty, we may never know the full story.
 

Busaholic

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Yes. A "17 seat minibus" has 16 passenger seats plus one for the driver. The driver is not a passenger when considering the number of seats to determine whether D1 is applicable or not.

I've never heard of bus seating described this way. A 56 seat bus, thousands or which existed in my youth, usually delineated into separate figures for upstairs and downstairs on a decker, would thus be described as a 57 seater now? The driver's seat was taken for granted, so never mentioned, as it would never be available for passenger use.
 

Deerfold

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I've never heard of bus seating described this way. A 56 seat bus, thousands or which existed in my youth, usually delineated into separate figures for upstairs and downstairs on a decker, would thus be described as a 57 seater now? The driver's seat was taken for granted, so never mentioned, as it would never be available for passenger use.

Presumably they're preparing for driverless buses.
 

GusB

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I've never heard of bus seating described this way. A 56 seat bus, thousands or which existed in my youth, usually delineated into separate figures for upstairs and downstairs on a decker, would thus be described as a 57 seater now? The driver's seat was taken for granted, so never mentioned, as it would never be available for passenger use.

The seating capacity would usuallly exclude the driver's seat and specifically refer to passenger accomodation.

56 isn't a common figure, though. B53F was the standard for a 11m service bus and C49F for a vehicle of similar length with coach seats.
 

Bletchleyite

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I've never heard of bus seating described this way

For some reason it seems to only be minibuses that are described in this way (usually informally). I think it's probably because, with things like D1 (101) and the post-1997 exemption for charity/nonprofit use under Section 19, the driver is much more likely to be one of the people you are needing to transport than on a full-size bus.
 

DD12

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It certainly is a fascinating development !

Can anyone tell me how many standees will be allowed please ?

(P.S: I don't like the idea of high-backed seats in a minibus for BUS services -

sounds claustrophobic !)
 

pemma

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Arriva recently trialled a Mercedes Benz Strata (DC16 OBY) in the Macclesfield area. It didn't go down too well when people got left behind because the bus was too small!
 

pemma

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Can anyone tell me how many standees will be allowed please ?

Apparently 8 meaning a maximum capacity of 22 passengers.

They have a maximum capacity of 22 which presumably means 6 standing.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Could they still use D1 drivers on routes where the standing isn't used?

No. What determines the applicability of D1 is the registered capacity of the vehicle, to be found on the V5. So it needs to be a semi-permanent change. (You can up it again, but each time you change it the V5 needs to be changed and an inspection may be required). And of course the signage would need to be changed.
 

pemma

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(P.S: I don't like the idea of high-backed seats in a minibus for BUS services -

sounds claustrophobic !)

I'm not sure on the type of minibus but I went in one operated by BOBH on a day trip from York last year which had high back seats in a 2+1 formation. I was on the single seat side and found it OK but I'm not sure I would have liked to be the aisle side of the side with double seats.
 
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I've never heard of bus seating described this way. A 56 seat bus, thousands or which existed in my youth, usually delineated into separate figures for upstairs and downstairs on a decker, would thus be described as a 57 seater now? The driver's seat was taken for granted, so never mentioned, as it would never be available for passenger use.

however minibuses have been traditionally sold in the retail channels and in the uk pre 1997 anyone witha full 'car' licence could drive upto 16+1 ( and those who passed before 1997 and aren't medically restricted or let it lapse at 70 still can - but not for hire or reward - and there;s osme interestign jurisprudence on that )
 

overthewater

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I'm not sure on the type of minibus but I went in one operated by BOBH on a day trip from York last year which had high back seats in a 2+1 formation. I was on the single seat side and found it OK but I'm not sure I would have liked to be the aisle side of the side with double seats.

Im not sure why High back seats are troublesome? In Scotland no one had trouble with them, Fife, Eastern and Clydeside all had DP seats.
 

Busaholic

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Im not sure why High back seats are troublesome? In Scotland no one had trouble with them, Fife, Eastern and Clydeside all had DP seats.

Was it just VRs they had trouble with, swapping them for Lodekkas from English companies?:)
 

F Great Eastern

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The problem with these vehicles is, if the service becomes too successful, they could, like many other similar schemes in Ireland with the City Imps and other European cities, become a victim of their own success when they become too small.
 

Bletchleyite

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The problem with these vehicles is, if the service becomes too successful, they could, like many other similar schemes in Ireland with the City Imps and other European cities, become a victim of their own success when they become too small.

If that happens get some Solos in and maintain the frequency, and send them elsewhere to have the same effect. Sounds like a profitable service upgrade to me.
 

mbonwick

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Current vehicles on the route are Solos.

What they're doing is doubling the frequency and (give or take) halving the capacity per vehicle - so there's still the same (actually slightly more) seats in the same timeframe as now.

It's 17 passenger seats and all up capacity of 22.
 

overthewater

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I just hope this idea does work, but if it doesn't where else could there try in the uk?
 

Bletchleyite

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Current vehicles on the route are Solos.

What they're doing is doubling the frequency and (give or take) halving the capacity per vehicle - so there's still the same (actually slightly more) seats in the same timeframe as now.

It's 17 passenger seats and all up capacity of 22.

The experiment might of course prove they can actually fill a high-spec Solo at the higher frequency too. There will be a lot of surveying, stats and monitoring to do on the concept.
 

Bletchleyite

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I just hope this idea does work, but if it doesn't where else could there try in the uk?

It seems a fairly decent concept for most small towns, really. But if it fails there, they could probably be downseated to 17 and no standees and used in rural areas to keep costs down there. A similar vehicle (a Renault of some kind) does a shuttle around Silverdale meeting trains, for instance.

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co...rtial_reprieve_for_their_popular_shuttle_bus/ (though showing a different bus)

Seeing it at the station meeting the train makes me feel all warm and fuzzy - very Swiss style.
 
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