Stagecoach North Scotland (Bluebird and Highland)

[GusB]

Unless I've missed it the fares increase last Sunday hasn't been mentioned.
Changes to Fares from Sunday 8th May 2022

I've been waiting until my blood comes off the boil before commenting!

My day ticket is up 30p to £6.30. It doesn't sound too bad until you consider that it went up by 70p in the last increase, which doesn't seem that long ago.

I understand why, but it's a bit frustrating.

 

[fraser158]

And there is a proposed timetable change for July.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

Some of the changes include my last bus going from 2145 to 2015.

At one point I used to be able to get a bus home at 2330.

 

[PG]

And there is a proposed timetable change for July.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

Some of the changes include my last bus going from 2145 to 2015.

At one point I used to be able to get a bus home at 2330.

The Covid tap has been turned off, and now (and for several years) we are going to be paying the price both literally and with service reductions.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Panther withdrawals have continued with 53636, 53640, 54125 & 54129 all withdrawn and sold in the past week. In addition to those Ex-Rapsons B9TLs 16945-48 have also been sold and will be getting withdrawn from service in the next month or two.

Meanwhile 53641 and 53644 have been repainted in to Long Distance livery with 53643 currently being done.

 

[83G/84D]

Anyone on here familiar with the Orkney operations? I am on the Orkney mainland on holiday and have seen most of the fleet but need six vehicles (21370/76/77,39501/2 & 48052).
Does anyone know if any buses are on the other Islands or would these be off the road somewhere for maintenance or other reasons?

 

[Volvodart]

Some just do schools services so you may not see them. There are locations shown for buses outwith the depot on the gov.uk site, so some may be there.

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/view-details/licence/812

 

[83G/84D]

Thanks that’s a great help.

Latest:- I saw four out of the six required and Solo 48906.

Undergoing attention in the depot at Kirkwall was a unidentifiable white open top which looked like a Trident.

 

[Volvodart]

None of the 4 remaining Panthers in the old livery were used today, apart from 53642 which came up from Stonehaven in service before going to Aberdeen depot. I wonder if that is the end of their use at Aberdeen (apart from ones at Buchan and Moray coming into Aberdeen), with more electric buses being put into use today.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19 May 2022 - all 22 electric double deckers are now in service in Aberdeen.

 

[83G/84D]

Former Orkney based Solo 47748 was at Aviemore depot today.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Former Orkney based Solo 47748 was at Aviemore depot today.

It has been working out of Aviemore for quite a while now. It's usually on the 337.

 

[83G/84D]

This is a photo of the white decker at Kirkwall last week as mentioned in post #757. Any help with identity would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[mbonwick]

Most likely 17470, ex-Stagecoach Merseyside.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Most likely 17470, ex-Stagecoach Merseyside.

It is, it's meant to be going in to stripes.

 

[83G/84D]

Most likely 17470, ex-Stagecoach Merseyside.

Is that one of the former Chester sightseeing examples?

 

[mbonwick]

Is that one of the former Chester sightseeing examples?

Yes, replaced there by B9TLs 16957/8 and ex-Manchester E400 19168.

 

[SteveyRex]

Here is 17470 on its way to Scrabster Ferry from Inverness on 02/04/2022.
It was an ok drive (i drove it up) bit windy and cold, but as it was my first time driving a double decker, i enjoyed it

There is a video of it in Thurso:

(excuse my bad driving lol)

 

[83G/84D]

Thanks @SteveyRex and @mbonwick for the information.

 

[PG]

The interdeck (54256) I followed this morning on an X63 as it pulled away uphill from a stop right up to 50mph was definitely in need of some attention to its engine. Each time it changed gear a blue/white cloud of smoke was emitted from the rear, fortunately it disappeared once the engine revs increased - at least until the next year change! Acceleration seemed normal but I wouldn't be surprised if let go shortly...

 

[Blindtraveler]

A friend who lives in the city but has family and friends in the shire is fast losing patience with assorted interdeck problems of one kind or another, not least the limited and almost non-existent capacity for passengers with reduced mobility. Also for various mechanical issues and technical faults also. Still absolutely no idea why a fleet of these were bought for the routes they operate.

I know that this is probably a side discussion and perhaps I will start it as such but do you think in future we will see Stagecoach buying a significantly large number of the panther LE.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Regarding Panther LE's the simple answer is no, they're too low capacity for the Buchan routes and management themselves ruled this out at one of the bus forums back in 2019 when the issues about accessibility were brought up. It's likely that when the Buchan fleet comes up for renewal it'll be a batch of E400MMCs similar to those on the 35. This in itself will be problematic as passengers constantly complain when a low floor bus turns up on a "coach route" with the E400MMCs proving unpopular from day one, additionally lots of cyclists use the Buchan Xpress services.

For the moment Bluebird is stuck with the Interdecks, there's nowhere really for them to go and they'll struggle to sell them on the second hand. Plaxton Panorama's would be the ideal vehicles for the Buchan network however Bluebird are generally moving away from coaches as buses like the E400MMCs are cheaper to buy, cheaper to run and offer greater reliability. Notably as of this month there are no longer any coaches in service in Aberdeenshire.

The interdeck (54256) I followed this morning on an X63 as it pulled away uphill from a stop right up to 50mph was definitely in need of some attention to its engine. Each time it changed gear a blue/white cloud of smoke was emitted from the rear, fortunately it disappeared once the engine revs increased - at least until the next year change! Acceleration seemed normal but I wouldn't be surprised if let go shortly...

It has been doing that for quite a while. Pretty much all the Interdecks have their "quirks" now.

 

[computerSaysNo]

A friend who lives in the city but has family and friends in the shire is fast losing patience with assorted interdeck problems of one kind or another, not least the limited and almost non-existent capacity for passengers with reduced mobility. Also for various mechanical issues and technical faults also. Still absolutely no idea why a fleet of these were bought for the routes they operate.

I know that this is probably a side discussion and perhaps I will start it as such but do you think in future we will see Stagecoach buying a significantly large number of the panther LE.

Regarding Panther LE's the simple answer is no, they're too low capacity for the Buchan routes and management themselves ruled this out at one of the bus forums back in 2019 when the issues about accessibility were brought up. It's likely that when the Buchan fleet comes up for renewal it'll be a batch of E400MMCs similar to those on the 35. This in itself will be problematic as passengers constantly complain when a low floor bus turns up on a "coach route" with the E400MMCs proving unpopular from day one, additionally lots of cyclists use the Buchan Xpress services.

For the moment Bluebird is stuck with the Interdecks, there's nowhere really for them to go and they'll struggle to sell them on the second hand. Plaxton Panorama's would be the ideal vehicles for the Buchan network however Bluebird are generally moving away from coaches as buses like the E400MMCs are cheaper to buy, cheaper to run and offer greater reliability. Notably as of this month there are no longer any coaches in service in Aberdeenshire.


It has been doing that for quite a while. Pretty much all the Interdecks have their "quirks" now.

Why are Aberdeen having so much trouble with their Interdecks then?
I don't see people commenting that the Arbroath ones on the X7 are unreliable.

To be honest the Interdeck as an idea seems kind of flawed to me, they're just not really suitable for anyone with mobility issues, wheelchairs, buggies or prams.
Where does the PantherLE lose its seats from? It's a full-length bus so it should still have adequate seats.

Is a dual-axle version of the Panorama available? I think that would be ideal, lots of accessible space downstairs a la the LE, but with more seats.

I was on a new (2021) E400MMC a few days ago out to Banchory, and the suspension on it was appalling, you could feel every bump on the road! Are all the E400MMC-chassis vehicles like this?

 

[PG]

If we were to travel back in time to the early eighties I'm guessing buses not coaches were plying the Buchan routes? So why can't we go back to that time? Sure the coaches have a better ambience but at the end of the day its a bus service.

I was on a new (2021) E400MMC a few days ago out to Banchory, and the suspension on it was appalling, you could feel every bump on the road! Are all the E400MMC-chassis vehicles like this?

Yep, for some reason your standard British double decker bus will expect to run on a billiard table smooth surface. Anything else and you get shaken to bits!
Is it really so difficult to make a bus with decent suspension?

 

[GusB]

If we were to travel back in time to the early eighties I'm guessing buses not coaches were plying the Buchan routes? So why can't we go back to that time? Sure the coaches have a better ambience but at the end of the day its a bus service.

Going back to the early 80s, you'd probably find that the longer routes were operated by a Leopard with Duple Dominant or Alexander T/Y-type body that would have had "coach" seats (we'd call them dual-purpose these days).

Is a dual-axle version of the Panorama available? I think that would be ideal, lots of accessible space downstairs a la the LE, but with more seats.

The Panorama would likely be too heavy for two axles, although I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Why are Aberdeen having so much trouble with their Interdecks then?
I don't see people commenting that the Arbroath ones on the X7 are unreliable.

Actually the X7 batch are in even poorer condition. Hence why the X7 is so frequently operated by low floors (two E200MMCs on it today). 54237 being notably unreliable.

To be honest the Interdeck as an idea seems kind of flawed to me, they're just not really suitable for anyone with mobility issues, wheelchairs, buggies or prams.
Where does the PantherLE loose its seats from? It's a full-length bus so it should still have adequate seats.

The main bonus of an overdecker/interdeck style coach is the higher luggage capacity. However on the Buchan network its really not needed to that extent.

The Panther LE seats around 15 less than an equivalent size Panther. Mainly because of the lost seats over the front axles and the excessive amount of space taken up by the wheelchair area.

Is a dual-axle version of the Panorama available? I think that would be ideal, lots of accessible space downstairs a la the LE, but with more seats.

I think there would likely be issues with weight, luggage space would also be nonexistent and being 2 axle the ride quality/stability wouldn't be as good. 15 metre coaches work fine on the Buchan network so there's not really any requirement to go for anything shorter.

I was on a new (2021) E400MMC a few days ago out to Banchory, and the suspension on it was appalling, you could feel every bump on the road! Are all the E400MMC-chassis vehicles like this?

The 16 and 21 plates are rattle boxes, the 19 plates are by far the best of the E400MMCs at Bluebird even though they're on the highest mileage now.

If we were to travel back in time to the early eighties I'm guessing buses not coaches were plying the Buchan routes? So why can't we go back to that time? Sure the coaches have a better ambience but at the end of the day its a bus service.

Because standards and expectations have moved on and if public transport is to compete with the car then it needs to be an attractive alternative not a last resort alternative.

 

[Red Onion]

Regarding the Buchan Interdecks, excluding the glaring issue of capacity for those with mobility issues etc, they work well on the limited stop runs with decent capacity and the ride quality is not too bad at all. Moving to regular buses instantly loses the comfort appeal and is a huge negative when it comes to attracting custom.

Where they fall down is where they are used with frequent stops as the dwell time is horrendous. The time it takes to load and unload passengers just makes them unviable for stopping services. I also can’t imagine it’s terribly good on the maintenance front for them either.

I’m really not sure what the solution is to them!

 

[computerSaysNo]

Yep, for some reason your standard British double decker bus will expect to run on a billiard table smooth surface. Anything else and you get shaken to bits!
Is it really so difficult to make a bus with decent suspension?

All the chassis from Volvo that I've been on have been nice and smooth, I haven't been on a B7 for ages but the B9TL and B5TL are both good, as well as the B8RLE. I'm sure the B8L is as well but I've not been on one of them at speed.

The Panorama would likely be too heavy for two axles, although I'm happy to be corrected.

Is it significantly heavier than a double-deck bus?
I suppose the bigger engine probably adds a lot of weight actually, being an 11 litre compared to the E400MMC chassis which is about 8 litre I think?

Actually the X7 batch are in even poorer condition. Hence why the X7 is so frequently operated by low floors (two E200MMCs on it today). 54237 being notably unreliable.

Oh, right.

The 16 and 21 plates are rattle boxes, the 19 plates are by far the best of the E400MMCs at Bluebird even though they're on the highest mileage now.

How come the 19 plates are on a higher milage than the older 16 plates?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Regarding the Buchan Interdecks, excluding the glaring issue of capacity for those with mobility issues etc, they work well on the limited stop runs with decent capacity and the ride quality is not too bad at all. Moving to regular buses instantly loses the comfort appeal and is a huge negative when it comes to attracting custom.

Where they fall down is where they are used with frequent stops as the dwell time is horrendous. The time it takes to load and unload passengers just makes them unviable for stopping services. I also can’t imagine it’s terribly good on the maintenance front for them either.

I’m really not sure what the solution is to them!

I have to agree, from a comfort perspective they're lovely and they smooth out the dips and bumps along the Newburgh - Cruden Bay road far better than pretty much anything else does.

How come the 19 plates are on a higher milage than the older 16 plates?

Because the 16 plates until recently were primarily on a city route whereas the 19 plates have been going back and forth from Aberdeen to Elgin daily. Both batches are currently at around 300k miles.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Because the 16 plates until recently were primarily on a city route whereas the 19 plates have been going back and forth from Aberdeen to Elgin daily. Both batches are currently at around 300k miles.

Ah, I wondered if that would be the case. Still surprising though as I'd have thought the city vehicles would be out for far more hours a day than the rural ones.

 

[Volvodart]

Hybrids 29001-9 have been placed temporarily into reserve. Unfortunately all bar one of the Aberdeenshire (excluding Buchan) Solos are active just now, so are being used in their place on routes that have had larger buses since the electrics arrived.

 

[mbonwick]

Hybrids 29001-9 have been placed temporarily into reserve.

There is a note against them on the fleetcard that they're intended for the Open Golf and then as backfill during the Commonwealth Games.