Standedge Tunnel

[trickyvegas]

I heard today it is due to shut for 14 weeks next year does anyone know any details such as dates and how how services will be arranged.

The gent who told me didn't think it was part of electrification work but if it is, mods please feel free to move this into the existing thread.

 

[142094]

Normally when this happens TPE services will be diverted via Hebden Bridge and Northern will operate a bus service between Marsden and Greenfield.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at the existing paths that are used through Hebden Bridge, how far to full capacity will they be, with the additional traffic flows caused by this diversion and could there be a diminution of some services if over-capacity should ensue?

I suppose the North TPE services from Manchester Airport will go via Salford Crescent(reverse)- Manchester Victoria -Rochdale, as has happened in the past. It is at times such as these that the Ordsall Chord would have been invaluable, had it already been in existence.

 

[Nym]

Or any multitude of the old lines through Tameside would have come in very handy...

 

[142094]

Looking at the existing paths that are used through Hebden Bridge, how far to full capacity will they be, with the additional traffic flows caused by this diversion and could there be a diminution of some services if over-capacity should ensue?

It shouldn't be anywhere near capacity due to the extra services, but it probably gets more than double the usual services when Standedge is shut.

 

[yorksrob]

Out of interest, does anyone know when the closure will be taking place ?

 

[175001]

It shouldn't be anywhere near capacity due to the extra services, but it probably gets more than double the usual services when Standedge is shut.

If its Sundays only then your right, but Monday-Saturday? The line I'm pretty sure is coming up to capacity, especially between Salford and Rochdale and Hall Royd and Milner Royd Jcts

 

[142094]

If its Sundays only then your right, but Monday-Saturday? The line I'm pretty sure is coming up to capacity, especially between Salford and Rochdale and Hall Royd and Milner Royd Jcts

Through Hebden Bridge it should be alright, but aye coming in and out of Man Vic will no doubt be a bit more problematic.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

At least we do not have the problem of the "Todmorden Chord" services into Manchester adding to the line pathway availability problem at the present time, but eventually, this will have to be something that is also to be taken into account when such long-term diversions occur.

 

[Ploughman]

I would have thought that the closure would take place during the regular extended possession period around Sept - November.

 

[Tomnick]

Through Hebden Bridge it should be alright, but aye coming in and out of Man Vic will no doubt be a bit more problematic.

If I'm not mistaken, it's one AB section from Milner Royd to Hebden Bridge. Not sure if there's any IB signals to break the section up, but either way I'd imagine there's not a huge amount of spare capacity.

 

[142094]

If I'm not mistaken, it's one AB section from Milner Royd to Hebden Bridge. Not sure if there's any IB signals to break the section up, but either way I'd imagine there's not a huge amount of spare capacity.

Depends on which day it is, but the bottleneck will no doubt be Manchester Victoria. From memory the normal services to use the line and frequency are:

Leeds - Man Vic 4tph

York - Blackpool North 1tph

Man Vic - Leeds 4tph

Blackpool Nth - York 1tph

then a few funny workings to places like Selby etc which are normally just extensions of the core LDS - MCV.

So that basically is 5 tph in each direction, then add on the TPE services that are diverted.

Someone else will no doubt have a better local knowledge but I'd have thought that the main route would have a lot of capacity but it is getting past Rochdale and into Leeds that is the problem?

 

[175001]

There is an IB section between Mytholmroyd and Sowerby Bridge, and between Mills Hill and Castleton.

There are 4 tph between MCV and RCD, 3 tph between RCD and HBD.

It really will be hard to squeeze all the TPE's between Vic and Hall Royd in the week it has to be said.

 

[Tomnick]

What's the section times like? 8tph (4 existing plus 4 diverted) each way means an average headway of 7.5mins. Subtract the standard two minutes for the Signalman's actions (AB) each time, and you've only got five minutes for each train to clear the section. A bit tight?

 

[Bevan Price]

What's the section times like? 8tph (4 existing plus 4 diverted) each way means an average headway of 7.5mins. Subtract the standard two minutes for the Signalman's actions (AB) each time, and you've only got five minutes for each train to clear the section. A bit tight?

I doubt that they will try to divert all 4 TPE services each hour via the Calder Valley. More likely is the use of (some) 6 car formations twice per hour, with Hull - Leeds & Scarborough - York shuttles during the blockade period.

 

[Tomnick]

I agree, 4tph would seem excessive. I just wanted to demonstrate that the line doesn't have *that* much spare capacity.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Are there any regular freight movements using the Caldervale route these days, which need to be added to the existing pathway schedule?

 

[Welshman]

According to the Network Rail timetable, it's just the Sunday service all-day from 1st April 2012 which is affected, not the weekday one.

This is simply following the pattern of previous years when TPE services have been diverted on Sundays via the Calder Valley, except that up to now it's been usually just for a month or so in the autumn, and the normal route has been regained about 1600.

 

[142094]

Are there any regular freight movements using the Caldervale route these days, which need to be added to the existing pathway schedule?

Don't think there is much freight that way but if Standegde is shut, there are the occasional container train and the household waste train from somewhere in Manchester that will have to be diverted.

 

[Ploughman]

Are there any regular freight movements using the Caldervale route these days, which need to be added to the existing pathway schedule?

Doesn't the Tank train for Preston go that way?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

When the Sunday TPE service goes via the Calder Valley it is always a fiasco due to chronic overcrowding (even with 6 cars) due to reduced frequency of only 1 tph from Piccadilly to Leeds / York. The Liverpool service goes direct via the Chat Moss and Victoria.

I have not heard about any extended closure period for Standedge tunnel. However, I have heard about a closure of Stalybridge at some point in the next 18 months for a week or so for resignalling. No dates yet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looks like the Sunday service is 5tph via Hebden Bridge (4tph into MCV).
TPE:
2xNortheast-York-Manchester Vic/Pic/Airport (reversing at Huddersfield and twice in Manchester).
1xScarborough-Liverpool (direct via Victoria avoiding Huddersfield).
1xHull-Huddersfield (local bus to Manchester).
NT:
1xLeeds-Hebden Bridge-Manchester (NT)
1xYork-Hebden Bridge-Burnley-Blackpool (NT)

Looks quite a good setup.
This is from NRT Table 39 from 1 April.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Looks like the Sunday service is 5tph via Hebden Bridge (4tph into MCV).
TPE:
2xNortheast-York-Manchester Vic/Pic/Airport (reversing at Huddersfield and twice in Manchester).
1xScarborough-Liverpool (direct via Victoria avoiding Huddersfield).
1xHull-Huddersfield (local bus to Manchester).
NT:
1xLeeds-Hebden Bridge-Manchester (NT)
1xYork-Hebden Bridge-Burnley-Blackpool (NT)

Looks quite a good setup.
This is from NRT Table 39 from 1 April.

Mmm, that's unusual. The normal Sunday via Calder Valley TPE service is 1 x North East - MIA via MAN, and 1 x North East - LIV direct MCV - LIV via NLW. This normally results in chronic overcrowding on the 1 tph via MAN, so it will be good if the service is better than normal. Note that the North East - MIA service only reverses once in Manchester, and that is at Salford Crescent.

 

[MarkAshmore]

The RUG for this bit of line hasn't heard anything of this.
There is about 9 months of weekend work at Stalybridge station as part of the Northern Hub and line speed increases.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Note that the North East - MIA service only reverses once in Manchester, and that is at Salford Crescent.

Yes that's more sensible.
I imagined it would reach Piccadilly via Philips Park, but that would need yet another reversal at Ashburys...

Edit: I've also just noticed that the TPE Liverpool service is not included in Table 90 (Manchester-Newton-Liverpool) after 1 April so maybe not quite fixed yet.
I was looking for closures of the Chat Moss route as a sign of electrification works, but it's only closed for a short spell in Feb/Mar.

 

[electra27000]

Doesn't the Tank train for Preston go that way?

The Preston Docks - Lindsey empty tanks are booked to go that way, as is the Seaforth - Tinsley empty steel working.

 

[spionkop64]

Don't think there is much freight that way but if Standegde is shut, there are the occasional container train and the household waste train from somewhere in Manchester that will have to be diverted.

There are two binliners: one to Northenden, the other to Salford. The latter can easily run via the Calder Valley (and really should, but instead messes about in Marsden loop and then turns across the TPE mainline after Stalybridge).

Freightliner trains cannot use the Calder Valley due to gauge contraints at a couple of tunnels: Elland and Horsfall if memory serves.

Regular runners via the Calder Valley are scrap trains Attercliffe-Liverpool; FLHH Anglo-Scottish coal flows via Copy Pit; Clitheroe-St Pancras cement; Preston-Lindsey tanks; then various diversions from TPE route during engineering blocks.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Harking back to the Standedge Tunnels, what major internal infrastructural improvements could be made at the same time as the electrification process being carried out. Does it look like only the existing bore will be utilised?

 

[PhilipW]

Harking back to the Standedge Tunnels, what major internal infrastructural improvements could be made at the same time as the electrification process being carried out. Does it look like only the existing bore will be utilised?

The Northern Hub document proposes re-opening the two disused tunnnels to give a 4-track railway for about 5 miles from Diggle to Marsden.

No decision has been taken on that so the announced electifrication only covers 2 tracks. However if we are interested in increasing capacity as well as improving speeds then re-instating 4 tracks seems very sensible to me.

Another advantage is that it could ensure that 2 tracks are permamently open, both during electrification and for maintenence afterwards.

Anyway, we will see. Personally I think there is a reasonable chance (say 50/50) of the proposal going through

 

[M60lad]

Out of interest what state are the current disused bores of Standege Tunnel in at the moment and how often are they checked