Starting at the wrong station on Advance ticket (delayed service)

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by VT 390, 9 Jun 2019.

  1. VT 390

    VT 390 Established Member

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    Next month I will be getting the Caledonian sleeper to Fort William (arrive 09:57) and then walking to Banavie station to get the 11:25 to Glasgow, if everything is on time there is plenty of time for this.
    As my ticket from Banavie to Glasgow is an advanced ticket if the sleeper was late in to Fort William and there was not enougth time to walk to Banavie would I be allowed to get the same service but from Fort William at no extra cost?
     
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  3. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Sorry, edited as I've realised that is further away from Glasgow not nearer it.

    Staff should give permission for this as it's not to avoid a fare; just ask before boarding.
     
  4. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    I can't see why there'd be any entitlement to be conveyed between Fort Bill and Banavie for free, as you have no contract with the railway between those stations.
     
  5. VT 390

    VT 390 Established Member

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    I would not be looking for travel from Fort William to Banavie though, if the sleeper was late then I would want to travel to Glasgow from Fort William instead.
     
  6. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    But you already have a ticket from Banavie to Glasgow, and what you're looking for is to be allowed to travel free between Fort William and Banavie to pick up your booked advance.

    I cannot see that they would have to, or indeed would.
     
  7. VT 390

    VT 390 Established Member

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    Sorry if my original message was unclear but that is not what I am asking though.
    I am saying that if the sleeper was late in to Fort William could I get the service which has already called at Banavie from Fort William instead, I just would miss out the Banavie part altogether.
     
  8. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    Technically no, as Advances do not allow BoJ.
    But in practice you might be able to get away with it if Fort William doesn't have any barriers
     
  9. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    My apologies, my geography was out and I was thinking Banavie was the other way.

    In practice, no, as you can't officially start short on an advance
     
  10. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    In practice probably yes, as staff in those parts are not like the Euston barrier staff, it's not being done to avoid a fare etc.
     
  11. VT 390

    VT 390 Established Member

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    Thanks for the replies, if there is a delay I will ask at Fort William if the ticket will be accepted and if not I will just have to buy a new ticket to Glasgow.
     
  12. Silverdale

    Silverdale Member

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    I frequently make trips of this kind for walking/cycling, where I'm travelling out/back to/from different stations on the same route and making my own way in between. I try not to buy an advance for the return leg which I can only use if there are no delays/hiccups/flat tyres/missed buses/etc on the walk/bike ride.

    I hope the OP has no problems and enjoys the walk/trip and that even if they are delayed on the sleeper, that the staff at Fort William and on the Glasgow train will look kindly on their predicament. They probably would, as others have said.

    But for peace of mind, in the OP's case, booking an advance from Fort William, instead of from Banavie, would probably have been the same price. A single, from Banavie to Fort William, is £2.50 and would only be required if things don't go wrong and they are boarding at Banavie. Whether you consider it insurance or flexibility, that's not too expensive. But it would have meant that should the need arise, the OP could catch the Glasgow train at Fort William without being beholden to someone on the railway giving permission.
     
  13. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    As I understand it the OP wants to to the following:

    Sleeper to Fort William (arrive 09:57)
    Walk to Banavie
    Train from Banavie (11:25) to Glasgow which calls at Fort William en-route

    If the sleeper is late arriving at Fort William then the OP will scrap the walk to Banavie but wants to know if he can start his journey to Glasgow short at Fort William.

    Technically the answer is no but I really doubt there will be any problem at all in doing so.
     
  14. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    I don't see why it can't be construed as one journey (given the lack of any substantive 'pause' or break anywhere, which is what would differentiate different journeys from another to me). Accordingly, if the sleeper is delayed then it is no different to, say, missing out a double back between Haymarket and Edinburgh owing to a delay, and is therefore entirely permissible.
     
  15. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    Well the simple answer to that is it's two single journeys from separate stations, and there's no valid "walk" route between the two, and although unlikely, the TOC could quite easily say that are indeed separate journeys
     
  16. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Whether this is two journeys or one journey or not is perhaps slightly contentious, but yes you are right there is no fixed link between the two stations so it would be very difficult to argue it's only one journey.

    One might perhaps reasonably argue that it is a return journey for which the purpose is for a very brief visit to the Fort William area.

    The safest thing to do would have been to book a return trip to Fort William in one transaction, and on the day to purchase a single from Banvie to Fort William on the train if the decision was taken to extend the journey back from Banavie.

    There may be some advantages to a circular or out & back trip being classed as 'one journey', but there are potential disadvantages too; see split ticket circular journey and, more recently circular trip using advances
    Is probably the right answer!
     
  17. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    In amongst all the discussions about technicalities this forum loves so much, which isn't always helpful in the context of real life situations for a simple trip, I will just say have a word with the guard when the crew change ends at Fort William. I am sure you will be fine and the guard will probably think you are bonkers for asking, but just to cover yourself have a word with him/her first.

    Enjoy your trip and don't worry too much.
     
  18. VT 390

    VT 390 Established Member

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    Thank you to everyone who has replied, this has been very helpful information.
     
  19. Llandudno

    Llandudno Member

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    At least if the sleeper arrives late, you should be able to claim a decent payout under a Delay Repay!
     
  20. VT 390

    VT 390 Established Member

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    The sleeper was almost an hour late on Tuesday night/Wednesday morning when I travelled so I spoke to the train manager on the sleeper explaining the situation and he said the ticket would be valid from Fort William instead due to the delay so there was no issue.
    If ever I do anything similar again I will take the advice from post 15 and buy a ticket for the journey I know is a valid connection and then the second part on the day if there are no delays.
     

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