State of the lineside - comparisons with other networks

[daccer]

On a trip down to London this week I took little time to observe the state of the lineside in the immediate vicinity of the tracks. Obviously there has been discussion about this before and I didn't want to rehash old arguments. I am more interested in how other countries view this issue with regards to graffiti, lineside clutter and the general ambience of the lineside. I don't think I will ever get used to seeing potentially valuable kit and materials scattered around but I would think the vast majority of passengers don't even register it having their eyes glued to an ipad.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Mark Carne has made it one of his priorities to tidy the lineside. It's unsightly and dangerous. There must be 10s of pounds worth of old coach screws scattered about the place!

An interesting presentation from the PWI on the matter:

https://www.thepwi.org/about_us/blog/tsa_scrap_rail.pdf

I expect graffiti on lineside equipment and structures occurs in all major cities round the world. But it does seem the Londons and Birminghams of the world suffer the most.....

 

[455driver]

Its the state of the bridges etc which have trees growing out of the masonry that winds me up, NR (and before them RT) are only custodians of the network and they are not doing a very good job of it, leaving a very small problem to grow into a much bigger and expensive problem before fixing it.
All it would take is a couple of blokes with ladders to go and pull out the small plants and spray the masonry with strong weedkiller and that would be the end of it. But no it is left until the roots have caused 1000s of pounds worth of damage to the brickwork requiring a major rebuild of the structure.

 

[rdeez]

I know we hardly have a pristine lineside and it's lower down the list of priorities than other things, but in fairness, I've travelled on other networks in Europe and found that we actually measure up quite well - not just in this but also in external appearance of rolling stock.

On an 8 hour journey in France particularly I was quite surprised to see how dilapidated some of the lineside appeared, as well as some of the stock.

 

[455driver]

On an 8 hour journey in France particularly I was quite surprised to see how dilapidated some of the lineside appeared, as well as some of the stock.

You do know that the only 'fair' comparison is between our whole network and the French TGV network, you are not allowed to include any other part of the rail network in France!

 

[Bald Rick]

You do know that the only 'fair' comparison is between our whole network and the French TGV network, you are not allowed to include any other part of the rail network in France!

On my last TGV trip I was surprises to see bushes using the OLE masts as a climbing frame. Admittedly on the classique network, but I was on a TGV all the same.

Compared to much of Europe and many US cities, our lineside is positively tidy.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Paris, Milan and Rome are appalling for graffiti, much worse than the UK.
I was even surprised to see plenty around Basel - not what you expect of the Swiss.
Spain looked pretty clean when I travelled through in September, but then most of the infrastructure is new.
Probably bottom of the heap was Poland, where all except the big modernised stations are decrepit, with crumbling platform edges and miles of overgrown tracks everywhere.
On long stretches near Katowice, they appeared to have painted the upper 2/3 of the OHLE masts very roughly in dark paint, while the bottom 1/3 was left untouched.
It felt like riding through a scrapyard.
But then the main stations at Katowice and Krakow were as good as anything NR has built.

 

[plymothian]

You do know that the only 'fair' comparison is between our whole network and the French TGV network, you are not allowed to include any other part of the rail network in France!

Slightly OT but a French group's view of SNCF in song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUBRYnNPYhk

If you don't speak French, you can pick most of it up and most of the complaints you get about the UK network are very familiar.
(en retard = late, ahurissant = stunning/stupifying, en panne = broken, annule = cancelled)

 

[ainsworth74]

It's almost as if everything isn't totally perfect over on the continent and in fact our network and their networks have their plus points but also their minus points...

Nah can't be that we're just awful and everything is fantastic, always, over there...

 

[davetheguard]

As well as the rampant buddleia growing out of (and damaging) retaining walls and bridges, which is saving up all sorts of expensive-to-fix problems for the future, there's also the overhanging trees interfering with signal sighting. Plus of course the leaves on the line thing.

In addition, some people (myself included) still like to look out of the train window and enjoy the scenery. But increasingly on some lines, the views are more and more hidden by vast amounts of undergrowth.

The northern part of the Looe branch is particularly bad, as is the southern part of the West Highland south of Loch Lomond.

No doubt others will have their own examples of sections of lines being less scenic than they used to be.......

 

[daccer]

I am glad the new head honcho at NR is going to act on this matter. For me the confusing aspect of this is that this problem could be solved with a little attention to detail and without too much expenditure. Considering the massive amounts NR are currently spending this would appear to be a quick win at little cost. Before people point out that it isn't a simple job collecting waste much of what I saw is piled up near access points.Maybe NR should look at how London Underground treat their network. I believe that graffiti is now public enemy no.1 and you certainly do not see the amount of scrap rails etc lying around.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I am glad the new head honcho at NR is going to act on this matter. For me the confusing aspect of this is that this problem could be solved with a little attention to detail and without too much expenditure. Considering the massive amounts NR are currently spending this would appear to be a quick win at little cost. Before people point out that it isn't a simple job collecting waste much of what I saw is piled up near access points.Maybe NR should look at how London Underground treat their network. I believe that graffiti is now public enemy no.1 and you certainly do not see the amount of scrap rails etc lying around.

I have to say that I don't have a problem with graffiti on our railway network for three reasons; I seldom pay any attention to the line side, it isn't my property (nor is it of national importance) and its not going to put the travelling public in danger. Yes it looks a mess but its hardly the Palace Of Westminster!

However I do think that its just asking for trouble by leaving old sleepers and scrap rails by the line side given the potential for damage to trains and even fatalities. I would also agree that unchecked plant growth is only storing up trouble for the future. I guess the real problem is physical resources although I don't understand why NR staff can't clean up after themselves.

 

[carriageline]

Excuse me, the problem isn't NR staff all the time [emoji23]

The biggest problem is on renewals jobs (from what I have seen anyway) where after the new stuff is in, the contractors pack up and leave. That then leaves piles of sleepers, rails, bags of ballast etc lying around. It then creates hazardous work conditions for our track staff as the cess is no longer a cess!! The 4 foot also becomes a hazardous course of discarded materials.

It does make me wonder though, as obviously the tilting wagons for the track panels are on site, how much time and money does it really add to remove the old stuff at the same time? Of course it adds time to already very short possessions. I imagine on the big renewal jobs (take Watford as a topical example) it does happen.

The problem with looking after the lineside is that it doesn't save any money here and now, and on the accountants railway it is a waste. What they fail to realise is Red Zone access falls (line blockages for more menial tasks), more equipment defects, leaf fall is more of a problem, then you have delays etc etc. But then it's out of another budget so the problem has magically shifted.

Thankfully Marc Carne is realising the root (pardon the pun) cause and is doing a good job at tackling it. And rightly so, it's not only about looks and delays, but the hazards it causes for the staff working trackside.


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[philabos]

Funny you should ask that today. I was on MARC482 from Washington to Baltimore today and noticed a tree down just north of Odenton about 12 inches from the east rail of the number 1 main. It looked like it had been there for some time but I am just surmising. An obstruction like that would never had been allowed on the railroad where I worked.
As to graffiti, I doubt there are many freight cars in the US that have not been tagged. The railroad police may arrest the tagger now and then, but the police and courts cannot be bothered. Thus on it goes.

 

[kermit]

Last spring, I very much enjoyed whiling away a journey to Scotland by telling my 16 year old son of the scheme to equip a special train with chainsaws, lights and heavy lifting gear, sent out at nights to "harvest" free renewable timber to be used as fuel for a generating plant in Wolverhampton, augmenting electricity supplies to the network.

The time it took him to realise it was the morning of the First of April afforded me great satisfaction, matched only by the physical peril I faced (he plays quite a lot of rugby) when the penny dropped!

 

[The Planner]

It depends on if that missive is carried on by the next chief exec, if I were a betting man and based on Mr Carne's age Id say he isnt going to be about for CP6 or much of it when he can cash in and buy an island in the Bahamas.

 

[brianthegiant]

If there is a genuine safety risk then sure clear the bushes or whatever. but don't do it just to appease rail enthusiasts who want to see a tidy lineside, there are more pressing things to expend labour and cash on.

 

[starrymarkb]

Germany mostly seems to be Graffiti covered Acoustic Walls, esp through cities. (Noise is a big political issue over there) The walls start at the edge of town and only break for the station (though if it's one with many fast trains passing then that will be walled in too)

 

[Deepgreen]

Its the state of the bridges etc which have trees growing out of the masonry that winds me up, NR (and before them RT) are only custodians of the network and they are not doing a very good job of it, leaving a very small problem to grow into a much bigger and expensive problem before fixing it.
All it would take is a couple of blokes with ladders to go and pull out the small plants and spray the masonry with strong weedkiller and that would be the end of it. But no it is left until the roots have caused 1000s of pounds worth of damage to the brickwork requiring a major rebuild of the structure.

Absolutely - prevention and management is far better than reaction. Never mind the appearance issue, the business case for prevention of structural deterioration is very strong.

Network Rail may not be directly responsible for much of the waste materials littering the railway, but they do sign the contracts for those who are. Include mandatory clearance of scrap in those contracts and the problem can start to be tackled. It may cost a little more but the longer-term benefits will be high. The scrap or re-use value of the stuff lying around the network must be enormous, never mind the safety issue.

At present the state of the railway estate is terrible and reflects very badly on the industry.

 

[DarloRich]

If there is a genuine safety risk then sure clear the bushes or whatever. but don't do it just to appease rail enthusiasts who want to see a tidy lineside, there are more pressing things to expend labour and cash on.

My word - common sense!

I would add risk to infrastructure damage to the list.