Statement of Funds Available Published

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Mordac, 12 Oct 2017 at 12:49.

  1. Mordac

    Mordac Established Member

    Messages:
    1,251
    Joined:
    5 Mar 2016
    Location:
    Northampton
    https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...ing-statement-of-funds-available-2019-to-2024

    Statement itself here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...005-statement-of-funds-available-2017-web.pdf

    I bolded something i thought particularly important.
     
  2. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

    Messages:
    7,690
    Joined:
    15 Apr 2008
    CP5 was about £38bn IIRC? Not sure if that was the network grant, if so then CP6 has been reduced.
     
  3. BantamMenace

    BantamMenace Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    2 Dec 2013
    For those of us not within the industry what does this actually mean?

    Is it just a budget that Network Rail has to spend over the next 5 years?

    Who is responsible for determining how this will be spent (e.g. Electrifications, Platform extensions, Station/Junction remodelling, etc.) and when will announcements on these specifics be?

    Is there any underlying, non-public, shopping list behind this budget that will be drip-fed to the public over the coming years?
     
  4. Old Hill Bank

    Old Hill Bank Member

    Messages:
    741
    Joined:
    6 Mar 2010
    Location:
    Kidderminster
    Most of the money is for maintenance and like for like renewals forget any major enhancements in that number and if The Planner is correct and it is a reduced number to CP5 it may not be good news.
     
  5. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,024
    Joined:
    12 Nov 2009
    https://www.globalrailnews.com/2017...pledges-47-9-billion-funding-to-network-rail/

    I think this explains how enhancements will be funded.

     
  6. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

    Messages:
    6,715
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2010
    I believe the £38 billion included everything and so therefore this figure might be higher....

    Didn't the £38bn also include enhancements whereas this only includes deferred enhancements so could it be viewed as an increase. I am just trying to find out the original statement of funds for CP5.
     
  7. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

    Messages:
    6,715
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2010
    As far as i can tell the network grant was only £20 billion for CP5....
     
  8. Olaf

    Olaf Member

    Messages:
    865
    Joined:
    29 Mar 2014
    Location:
    UK
    The final figure for the direct grant agreed in October 2013 between the ORR, Network Rail and DfT for CP5 was GBP 38.3 Billion (2013 figures).

    The equivalent in 2017 figures would be somewhere between GBP 40 and 42 Billion.
     
    Last edited: 12 Oct 2017 at 15:24
  9. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,238
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    up overall but dependent on reaching a "stretch" target on funding via ( for eg) the sale of more of the property portfolio. Direct grant is £34.7bn
     
  10. Olaf

    Olaf Member

    Messages:
    865
    Joined:
    29 Mar 2014
    Location:
    UK
    Yes. Network Rail has so far not achieved any recovery of the GBP 1.6 Billion it was required to find as part of the interim settlement.

    However, the scope of the provisional GBP 34.7 Billion is not going to be the same as in CP5.
     
  11. Olaf

    Olaf Member

    Messages:
    865
    Joined:
    29 Mar 2014
    Location:
    UK
    That cut is approximately inline with the 15% average spending reduction that was imposed on other departments.
     
  12. CdBrux

    CdBrux Member

    Messages:
    345
    Joined:
    4 Mar 2014
    Location:
    Brussels
    Isn't this just "operations, renewals and maintenance" plus some deferred CP5 enhancement projects that pass a value test (with other enhancements to be developed and funded outside CP process) vs CP5 which was "operations, renewals and maintenance" AND enhancements, of which the enhancements were around 12 or 14bn?.
    Which of the CP6 numbers is comparable to the CP5 of 38bn, is it the total 47.9bn or the government grant of 34.7?
     
  13. Mordac

    Mordac Established Member

    Messages:
    1,251
    Joined:
    5 Mar 2016
    Location:
    Northampton
    This is a good article summarising the differences:
    https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2017/10/13-network-rails-public-funding-limits.html

     
  14. HowardGWR

    HowardGWR Established Member

    Messages:
    3,479
    Joined:
    30 Jan 2013
    Mr Smith should try using correct English; 'less delay' but 'fewer delays'. There is an important difference.
     
  15. IanXC

    IanXC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,568
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2009
    *bangs head against brick wall*

    Transport Focus really are clueless aren't they? Of course we can make more and more services operate on time on the same infrastructure, no need for capacity increasing schemes that he clearly paints as being extravagant irrelevancies.
     
  16. GRALISTAIR

    GRALISTAIR Established Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Joined:
    11 Apr 2012
    Location:
    Dayton Ohio USA
    Overall - I was pessimistic but am feeling a lot better after this. Not doom and gloom.
     
  17. HowardGWR

    HowardGWR Established Member

    Messages:
    3,479
    Joined:
    30 Jan 2013
    Perhaps it's not so bad. I assume that the capital part will include all the 'deferred' schemes and only omit the 'cancelled' ones (e.g. MML, Lake district and Swansea). I do have qualms over recalculation of BCRs for parts of schemes that originally had BCRs for entire routes (e.g. the two Bristol join up bits to Parkway and Thingley Junction). If the entire routes were worth doing, so they are now. That goes for the cancelled ones too of course, as it happens. MML had a very high BCR for its entirety before someone put these stupid notions into Grayling's head.
     
  18. CdBrux

    CdBrux Member

    Messages:
    345
    Joined:
    4 Mar 2014
    Location:
    Brussels
    well if the B does not change and the C does so the answer will change!
     
  19. Chris M

    Chris M Member

    Messages:
    358
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2012
    Location:
    London E14
    I think the point was that if you calculated the BCR of electrifying London to Swansea as positive, cancel the Cardiff to Swansea section, and then recalculate the BCR for electrifying between Cardiff and Swansea using the new costs that's not the same as recalculating the BCR of electrifying London to Swansea with the new costs. The BCR of the former approach will be much lower than the latter because the costs will be the same but the benefits significantly less.
     
  20. Olaf

    Olaf Member

    Messages:
    865
    Joined:
    29 Mar 2014
    Location:
    UK
    We will not know until about this time in 2018, and direct comparisons will be difficult - as evidenced by a number of incorrect assumptions made in the media.

    Factors to be considered:
    • Finalised scope of areas to be covered by this fund,
    • Funds already announced and/or committed which will be counted as part of this total,
    • Industry cost changes between now and October 2019,
    • Impact of changes to interest rates on costs of funding,
    • The final figure for the CP5 cost over-spend/under-delivery - last estimate was that this might come out at about GBP 2.6 Billion,
    • Resolution of the interim settlement,
    • Details of what will be done about NR debt,
    • Impact of changes to "structure of delivery" between now and CP6.
     
    Last edited: 14 Oct 2017 at 20:03

Share This Page