Station Closed signs?

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hornbyfan99

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I was at Highbury & Islington GN platforms and I noticed a map that seemed like it had a station closed sign on the back like found on LUL stations.

I don't know if it was but do GN services running into Moorgate have to pass starting signals at 5MPH or what is the procedure for closed stations on the Northern City Line?
 
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Tio Terry

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I was at Highbury & Islington GN platforms and I noticed a map that seemed like it had a station closed sign on the back like found on LUL stations.

I don't know if it was but do GN services running into Moorgate have to pass starting signals at 5MPH or what is the procedure for closed stations on the Northern City Line?

Do you mean an EDNE sign (Emergency Do Not Enter)? These are required by the Fire Safety (Sub-Surface Railway Stations) Regulations. I believe that GN Services in to Moorgate operate under these regulations.
 

causton

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Do you mean an EDNE sign (Emergency Do Not Enter)? These are required by the Fire Safety (Sub-Surface Railway Stations) Regulations. I believe that GN Services in to Moorgate operate under these regulations.

I don't think so. I think they mean a sign like this:



This is to indicate that the train does not have to stop, but must travel at 5mph to avoid setting off the overspeed tripcock at the end of the platform.
 

MrB

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This is to indicate that the train does not have to stop, but must travel at 5mph to avoid setting off the overspeed tripcock at the end of the platform.

Can the tripcocks not be deactivated so that trains can run at full speed when the stations are shut?
 

SPADTrap

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I don't think so. I think they mean a sign like this:



This is to indicate that the train does not have to stop, but must travel at 5mph to avoid setting off the overspeed tripcock at the end of the platform.

That's interesting. What is the purpose of these overspeed tripcocks in the platforms? Because in theory everything should stop there?
 

Peter Mugridge

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Can the tripcocks not be deactivated so that trains can run at full speed when the stations are shut?

No, because the signal spacing assumes 5mph at the platform mid point.

Incidentally, on the ATO sections, where there is no signal spacing in the traditional sense, trains go much faster through closed platforms.
 

jopsuk

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The last bit of this jigsaw is that the Moorgate branch has Tripcocks, uniquely for a line that has no Underground stock operating on it.
 

Railsigns

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Tripcocks are fitted to trains. The associated equipment on the track is called a trainstop.
 

CyrusWuff

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Assuming the setup on the GN&C is similar to London Underground, the logic is that there's a reduced overlap for the station starter compared to other signals, so the train's speed needs to be reduced so it can stop within that overlap if necessary.
 

Nym

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No, because the signal spacing assumes 5mph at the platform mid point.

Incidentally, on the ATO sections, where there is no signal spacing in the traditional sense, trains go much faster through closed platforms.

Really?

I can only think of two lines that don't have station starter overlaps on ATP. The fact that they are aware of their limit of authority more so than lines driven by coloured light signal doesn't change the fact that they may have a reduced speed through platforms.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Really?

I can only think of two lines that don't have station starter overlaps on ATP. The fact that they are aware of their limit of authority more so than lines driven by coloured light signal doesn't change the fact that they may have a reduced speed through platforms.

Since the ATO conversion on the Northern Line I haven't had one slow down once for a closed station.
 

Mojo

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That's interesting. What is the purpose of these overspeed tripcocks in the platforms? Because in theory everything should stop there?
There's no such thing as an "overspeed tripcock." On conventionally signalled lines there are speed controlled trainstops ("sleeping policemen") to protect the overlap even further; there's one of these at Leicester Square Eastbound on the Picc and one on the District at West Ham Eastbound. Other places use draw-up signals to pretty much the same effect, although there is a visible signal. TETS (Trains Entering Terminal Stations) and TES (Trains Entering Sidings) are variations on this for trains approaching buffers.

To add further detail, some station starter signals, even automatic ones, are red, and then come off time occupancy of track circuits (provided the section it is protecting is clear!)

The reason for the 5mph limit is as pointed out by someone else; to protect the overlap should a train pass the signal at danger. Unlike on the mainline, signalling on the Underground is designed that should a train pass a signal at danger (assuming it isn't speeding, and everything is working correctly), it will stop within the overlap. Some stations the speed limit is higher, for instance Piccadilly line trains can pass through stations on the fast lines between Ravenscourt Park and Turnham Green[/Chiswick Park] at line speed (45mph) and on the local line at 20mph. There are other examples, details of which are contained within the line supplements.

Hmm. It doesn't slow to 5mph but it definitely slowed down through Tufnell Park.
Northern line isn't conventionally signalled so there is no need to slow down to 5mph. On the Northbound trains still stopped and the Train Operator had to press ATO Start buttons again; the reason for this was explained to me but I have forgotten.

I took a picture of a sign on a Victoria line platform (attached) which shows the limit there to be 30kph.
 

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