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Statutory declaration following a court case I did not know about

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oxforgwr

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Hello all,

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Back in September 2019, I travelled from London to Oxford with a 16-25 Railcard return ticket but when my ticket was checked at Oxford station (GWR), I realised I'd left my Railcard at home. Following this, a pre-court settlement offer was sent (in October) but it was sent to the wrong address and they also misspelled my name. I therefore did not receive this and it wasn't until April 2020 that I managed to get a court summons (also sent to the wrong address but I somehow received it as the street was correct). The problem is that the court date was in March and the case had been heard in my absence (and without my knowledge).

I then applied for the making of a statutory declaration (delayed to June 2020 because of COVID) but I am not sure what needs to be done after this. Is it likely that I will get a chance after making the statutory declaration to settle with GWR or will I have to go through the hearing again. Moreover, the summons was for a breach of s.5(3)(a) of the Railways Act 1889 but as I made clear in the witness statement, I left my Railcard at home by accident which had led me to think that this may be a breach of Byelaw 18 but not the Railways Act.

Ideally, I'd get the opportunity to settle with GWR but I'm worried I might need to instruct a solictor to do this. Any help would be truly appreciated.

Thank you
 
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Brissle Girl

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Out of curiosity, there is usually a procedure in place which means that someone who forgets their railcard can, on one occasion only, provide the information and have any additional fare paid refunded. Are you able to explain why this didn't happen in your situation? It may help in framing any correspondence with GWR.
 

oxforgwr

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In my case, I wasn't made aware of this possibility at the time. I could perhaps bring this up if I get the opportunity to settle with GWR? Thank you for your help.
 

Realfish

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In my case, I wasn't made aware of this possibility at the time. I could perhaps bring this up if I get the opportunity to settle with GWR? Thank you for your help.

The procedure that Bristol Girl mentions in post #2 came into effect on 21st March 2017. At the time, Jacqueline Starr, managing director of customer experience at the Rail Delivery Group, said: "Customers make honest mistakes sometimes – we think railcard holders should have one chance a year to be refunded if they've had to pay extra for forgetting theirs.''

Here is the relevant section of the GWR Passenger Charter:''If you have forgotten or mislaid your Railcard and were therefore unable to produce it when requested but can produce that valid Railcard at a later date, get in touch with our Customer Support team who will look at providing a refund for any additional charge incurred. We will need to see the Railcard, and all relevant journey tickets.''

As BG said in her post, that's a 'once a year' opportunity be refunded any excess / penalty you may have been charged - but presumably, as this has gone to court you have not been afforded that opportunity to regularise your journey and / or get a refund. What actually happened on the day? And can you confirm that at the time of travel you actually held a valid Railcard and were entitled to do so? As BG asks, are there any other circumstances you can think of why the staff at Oxford failed to handle the situation in line with these provisions?
 
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oxforgwr

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Thank you for the information! I was basically just told that I'd be 'interviewed under caution' since I didn't have my railcard on me but that as long I replied to GWR's correspondence with proof of railcard ownership, I would not be fined (I did own a railcard at the time). The problem was that they sent the mail (with the relevant reference number etc. that I needed) to the wrong address so I was unable to sort this out. I only found out about the developments that ensued 6 months or so later...

About a month after being interviewed, I did email GWR to ask why I hadn't received anything yet but didn't get a proper answer.

With respect to what happened on the day, as far as I'm aware, I was simply told that I'd have to be interviewed under caution.
 

Brissle Girl

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OK. Firstly, can you confirm that the Statutory Declaration has been correctly submitted and has been accepted? If so, I think it's time to engage with GWR and set out the chain of events in very clear terms. Explain why you didn't reply to any correspondence (enclosing evidence of the incorrect address if you still have it), and also referencing the emails which prove you tried to follow up, but didn't get a satisfactory answer.

At the end of your letter, offer to pay any amount due to resolve the case. You might even choose to send a cheque for the due amount, which would then minimise any additional cost on their behalf if they choose to accept it, by meaning they just have to send an acknowledgement to that effect.

Do make sure that everything is clear, you haven't omitted anything relevant, and it helps if it's factual, rather than having any emotion. You might like to post a draft here for us to consider before you send it.
 

oxforgwr

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Apologies - I did not write the actual date. The earliest date the court could book me in for was the 16th of June (due to COVID) for the Statutory Declaration. Would you recommend sending GWR an email only once the Statutory Declaration has been accepted? I was thinking this would be the correct way to go about it?
With regard to the Statutory Declaration, what documents (if any) might be helpful in demonstrating that I only received the documents after the court hearing had already happened?

Thank you again for your help.
 

Enthusiast

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With regard to the Statutory Declaration, what documents (if any) might be helpful in demonstrating that I only received the documents after the court hearing had already happened?
You don't need any documentation when making your SD (other than the SD form itself which will be provided by the court). The court is simply hearing your declaration that you knew nothing of the proceedings that led to your conviction. It is not there to test the truth of your declaration. Provided it has agreed to hear it (and it must hear it if it is made within 21 days of you learning about your conviction and it may hear it if it is considered you had good reason for making it out of time) it simply hears it and verifies that it has been made.
 

Brissle Girl

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I see no reason why you should wait, so long as your letter makes it clear that you will be making the SD on the 16th, (and also explain that you have already contacted the court, and that is the first opportunity you have to make it). Anything that accelerates the process will presumably be helpful to both parties.
 

30907

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At the end of your letter, offer to pay any amount due to resolve the case. You might even choose to send a cheque for the due amount, which would then minimise any additional cost on their behalf if they choose to accept it, by meaning they just have to send an acknowledgement to that effect.
Does the OP owe anything? They had a valid railcard and ticket and gave the correct address.
 

Brissle Girl

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Does the OP owe anything? They had a valid railcard and ticket and gave the correct address.
Good point. Probably not, assuming everything else is in order, and evidence of the railcard is supplied with the letter.
 

221129

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Does the OP owe anything? They had a valid railcard and ticket and gave the correct address.
They didnt have a valid ticket though.

The OP hasn't mentioned why all the info went to the wrong address, was an incorrect address given ?
 

Brissle Girl

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They didnt have a valid ticket though.

The OP hasn't mentioned why all the info went to the wrong address, was an incorrect address given ?
I think the point is that if you forget your railcard once then you are allowed to provide evidence in retrospect that you do have one. But the process fell down here. So surely, once that has been established there would be no additional fare payable, as if they had been asked to pay extra, it would now have been refunded. Or am I missing something here?

It went somewhere else on the same street. One presumes that the person taking the details scribbled the number down in a way which was misread, but of course, if there is more to it than that then it would suggest a different outcome would be appropriate. I think we have to take the OP at face value that they didn't give a wrong address.
 

221129

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I think the point is that if you forget your railcard once then you are allowed to provide evidence in retrospect that you do have one. But the process fell down here. So surely, once that has been established there would be no additional fare payable, as if they had been asked to pay extra, it would now have been refunded. Or am I missing something here?

It went somewhere else on the same street. One presumes that the person taking the details scribbled the number down in a way which was misread, but of course, if there is more to it than that then it would suggest a different outcome would be appropriate. I think we have to take the OP at face value that they didn't give a wrong address.
There is no right to be offered that though.

Something doesnt add up though as normally youd be offered to buy an undiscounted ticket (which you can apply for a refund later) or a penalty fare. Now if one of these was offered and refused then I could see why they went down the reporting route.
 

Brissle Girl

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There is no right to be offered that though.

Something doesnt add up though as normally youd be offered to buy an undiscounted ticket (which you can apply for a refund later) or a penalty fare. Now if one of these was offered and refused then I could see why they went down the reporting route.
I agree, which is why my first post asked whether there was any explanation as to why that didn't happen. We can only give advice based on what the OP tells us. It wouldn't be the first time though that railway staff have not followed the appropriate procedure is the case of a fare or ticketing irregularity.
 

221129

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It wouldn't be the first time though that railway staff have not followed the appropriate procedure is the case of a fare or ticketing irregularity.
What is the appropriate procedure, like I said there is no right to a penalty fare or a new ticket to allow a refund, although it is normal practice, it would be completely appropriate to go straight to a report if so desired, its just unusual.
 

Haywain

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It wouldn't be the first time though that railway staff have not followed the appropriate procedure is the case of a fare or ticketing irregularity.
There is no evidence that the member of staff did not act appropriately. Perhaps the OP declined to buy another ticket or perhaps the member of staff was not authorised to sell tickets. The OP has stated that the ticket check happened at Oxford but not whether this was on arrival or departure - if it was on arrival, how did the OP get back to London? It's also worth asking whether the OP is still in possession of a railcard that was valid at that time - if not then it seems reasonable to assume that the forgotten railcard process won't be used now.
 

Brissle Girl

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I'm not suggesting they did act improperly. I'm just pointing out that it does happen on occasions, so it's not impossible that it happened on this instance. Anyway, to cover off that point as to what should happen, the two relevant parts of the CoT are as follows:-

8.5. If you are travelling with a Railcard discounted Ticket and are unable to present the Railcard when asked by the staff or authorised agents of a Train Company, you will be treated as having joined a train without a valid Ticket and Condition 9 will apply.
8.6. However, if you were unable to present the Railcard because you had forgotten to carry it on that particular journey or mislaid it, the Train Company concerned
will refund any fare or Penalty Fare paid in accordance with Condition 10.
8.7. In order to claim such a refund, you will need to contact the customer service department of the Train Company that charged you the additional fare or Penalty Fare, providing the full details of your Railcard, together with the additional Tickets you have purchased or any Penalty Fares notices. A maximum of one such claim will be considered in any 12 month period.


and

9.2. If you are unable to present a valid Ticket when asked and the conditions set out in Condition 6 do not apply, we are permitted in law to take one of the following measures:
9.2.1. To charge you a Penalty Fare on certain trains and stations (see Condition 10 below); or
9.2.2. To charge you the full undiscounted anytime single fare to a station directly served by the train that you are on. You will not be entitled to any discounts or special terms, or for a Ticket to a station other than one served by the train that you are on; or
9.2.3. To report you for prosecution.
If you are unable to present a valid Ticket or to pay a fare (including a part payment of a Penalty Fare to the value of the Ticket required) when requested, you will be required to provide your name and address so that the matter can be followed up.


So, it seems as if 9.2.1 or 9.2.2 are chosen by the rail employee then the TOC is obligated under 8.7 to refund if contacted with the relevant information. However, there is no such refund due if 9.2.3 is chosen (because obviously nothing has been paid). So the question to the OP is why were you not charged a penalty fare or a full undiscounted fare for the journey. Did you refuse to pay a fare, either because you didn't think it fair, or because you had no means to pay? Or were there other reasons why you think the staff member chose to take your details? (E.g. a rather agressive confrontation, or they thought you were trying to slip through without being noticed.) Without knowing that, it's difficult to give much advice in terms of trying to negotiate with GWR.
 

Realfish

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They didnt have a valid ticket though.

The OP hasn't mentioned why all the info went to the wrong address, was an incorrect address given ?

Isn't is usual practice for proof of the address to be asked for, and / or alternatively the inspector carries out the electoral roll check? In these circumstances the OP is not responsible if the RPO (or whoever, subsequently) gets the name and address wrong. Perhaps the OP could pop back with more details of what happened when his details were requested.
 

packermac

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Isn't is usual practice for proof of the address to be asked for, and / or alternatively the inspector carries out the electoral roll check? In these circumstances the OP is not responsible if the RPO (or whoever, subsequently) gets the name and address wrong. Perhaps the OP could pop back with more details of what happened when his details were requested.
I am reading this correctly and you are expecting an RPO do undertake an electoral roll check?
I think there have been enough "not me travelling" cases on here to prove the address provided is taken as correct. Plus if you have moved since the last register was produced it will not be the correct address anyway.
 

oxforgwr

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Thank you all for your replies and sorry for the delay.

Just to address some of the concerns, as far as I can remember (I am fairly sure though), I wasn't given the option of purchasing a full-price ticket but the staff assured me that as long as I provided proof of my railcard later, I would not be fined or charged. The check occurred upon my arrival at Oxford, and I came back to London by bus (Oxford Tube) because the tickets were taken away from me.

I can see from the attached witness statement (to the court summons) that my name and address were correctly taken down by the staff at Oxford and so I believe it was the GWR prosecutions department that made the mistakes. Only one letter in my name and the building number were mistaken in the documents subsequently sent but that was enough for there to be a long delay until my eventual receipt.

The railcard that was valid at the time (now expired) is still in my possession.

I'll wait to see what members have to say but it seems like it would be a good idea to write an email to GWR detailing what exactly happened.

Thank you all
 
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Enthusiast

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I'll wait to see what members have to say but it seems like it would be a good idea to write an email to GWR detailing what exactly happened.
Before you have performed your SD your conviction stands. What happens after that is up to the prosecuting body (GWR). There's no harm in contacting them in anticipation of your SD being done but they are unlikely to do anything formally until your conviction has been set aside.
 

Brissle Girl

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Good that you can prove that it was GWR's mistake in sending the letter to the wrong address. It takes any suggestion or suspicion away that you ignored any correspondence/provided an incorrect address. Again, without labouring the point, worth noting that in your email to them. Why don't you prepare a draft and share it on here (without any identifying details) and we can take a look.
 

oxforgwr

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I have only just found out that the hearing for the Statutory Declaration has been adjourned on (once again due to Covid, they are only taking on urgent matters) but following your advice, I'll write GWR an email. I was thinking it could look like this?

'Hi,

I was just hoping to notify you in writing that regarding case number (...) , I have made an application for a statutory declaration since I did not know about the court proceedings until after the case had already been heard. I was not aware because the documents (including the court summons and the pre-settlement offer) were sent to the wrong name and address despite me having given the correct details in the interview/witness statement with the GWR staff at Oxford station. A month or so after the initial incident, I sent an email to GWR Prosecutions, expressing my concern at not having received a letter but I was told that the case had not yet been entered into the system and that as soon as this happened, they would write to me. This did not happen for the reason set out above and due to this, I was not given the opportunity to prove that I held a valid railcard at the time, thereby avoiding paying any fines or being charged.

I understand that before the court accepts my statutory declaration, we will not be able to settle this matter out of court but in anticipation of the court's acceptance, I was hoping to let you know that my preference would be to demonstrate my ownership of the valid (at the time) railcard or pay the fine without going through court proceedings again. Please let me know if this would be okay and I would appreciate it if you could confirm that the settlement can happen as soon as the statutory declaration is accepted.'



Apologies if it's not very good but any guidance would be much appreciated!
 

Brissle Girl

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Made a few tweaks to make it a little more formal and hopefully clear. I'm sure others will be along with any other comments, particularly with regard to any legal points.

Dear Sirs

I am writing in regard to case number (...), which was heard in court in my absence on x. It relates to a case of travelling without a valid railcard, as I had forgotten it.

I have made an application for a statutory declaration since I did not know about the court proceedings until after the case had already been heard. This application is currently pending given COVID related delays in the courts. I was not aware of the case because the documents (including the court summons and the pre-settlement offer) were sent to the wrong name and address despite me having given the correct details in the interview/witness statement with the GWR staff at Oxford station. This correspondence was sent to x, instead of x.

A month or so after the initial incident, I sent an email on x/x/x to GWR Prosecutions, expressing my concern at not having received a letter but I was told that the case had not yet been entered into the system and that as soon as this happened, they would write to me. This did not happen for the reason set out above and due to this, I was not given the opportunity to prove that I held a valid railcard at the time.

As an aside, I understand that in such cases, it would be more normal practice in the event of a forgotten railcard to charge a full fare or penalty fare, which will be reimbursed on receipt of proof of a valid railcard on the first occasion. I am unclear why this process wasn't followed, and instead my details were taken.

I am led to believe that before the court accepts my statutory declaration, we will not be able to settle this matter. However, in anticipation of the court's acceptance, I am providing evidence of my railcard, and hope that this will be sufficient for the case to be dropped.

Finally, I have checked that the witness statement did have my correct address on it, and so would note that had this been correctly used in initial correspondence with me, this would all have been settled prior to it coming to court. Accordingly, I would hope that receipt of my railcard details will allow this matter to be concluded with no further inconvenience to either party.

Yours faithfully
 

Realfish

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''...I came back to London by bus (Oxford Tube) because the tickets were taken away from me...''

This from the OP's post (#22) raises another issue. While probably happy enough to get this prosecution reversed and the case dropped, the actions of the gateline staff at Oxford have left the OP out of pocket. Had they followed the normal practice of charging a supplement or penalty fare, the OP could have returned to London by train and had the 'excess' reimbursed. It's for the Op to decide whether to mention this.
 

MotCO

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This from the OP's post (#22) raises another issue. While probably happy enough to get this prosecution reversed and the case dropped, the actions of the gateline staff at Oxford have left the OP out of pocket. Had they followed the normal practice of charging a supplement or penalty fare, the OP could have returned to London by train and had the 'excess' reimbursed. It's for the Op to decide whether to mention this.

Also, is it normal practice to take away a return ticket when the return ticket is still, or could be, valid, e.g. by buying a new Railcard before making the return journey?
 

packermac

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Yes, because that is the procedure at a lot of TOCs.
So what basis are they allowed access on preventing and protecting crime? Because as I see it the full register can only be give to local authorities, law enforcement and the courts. Makes no mention on the ICO website of it being available to TOC's.
The open register which anyone can purchase you can request to be excluded from, as I do.
 

6Gman

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So what basis are they allowed access on preventing and protecting crime? Because as I see it the full register can only be give to local authorities, law enforcement and the courts. Makes no mention on the ICO website of it being available to TOC's.
The open register which anyone can purchase you can request to be excluded from, as I do.

I understand that it is provided on the preventing or investigating crime provision (I paraphrase).

Not saying it's right or wrong.
 
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