Steam Engines at Terminals

[Doomotron]

At pretty much all terminus stations in the UK there isn't a run-around loop, so how does a steam-hauled train leave the station? Is there another locomotive that couples with the front engine uncoupling or is it something else?

 

[PeterC]

In short, yes.
Typically a fresh locomotive would be waiting to take the train and the old engine follow to a siding and, probably, a turntable ready for the next service.

 

[edwin_m]

That would be true at most major stations - either a new locomotive to take the train out or a smaller "station pilot" that would haul it off to the sidings to be cleaned and returned some time later to form another service. Coaches were used much less intensively in the steam era. Putting a loco onto the other end continued with diesels and electrics right into the 80s, only being eliminated by the introduction of Driving Van Trailers. One slightly scary thing was that usually the loco trapped against the buffers would follow a short distance behind the train as it left the platform, stopping at the far end to await a route into a siding. This helped to clear the platform quickly for the next arrival.

At branch line termini and even some medium-sized stations there would be a run round loop and the same loco would take the train back. Once the lines were operated by DMUs the loops and associated signalling were taken away. Alternatively the train might be a "push-pull set" (known as an "Auto train" on the Great Western) where the driver could operate the main controls remotely from a cab at the other end by a system of mechanical linkages or vacuum pipes. But even if served by push-pull the terminus probably had a run-round as sometimes the equipment wouldn't work or no push-pull set would be available.

 

[Cowley]

At pretty much all terminus stations in the UK there isn't a run-around loop, so how does a steam-hauled train leave the station? Is there another locomotive that couples with the front engine uncoupling or is it something else?

Modern day steam specials tend to have a diesel loco attached to the rear to assist with shunting at the end of the journey and also as a back up if anything goes wrong en route.
On most steam specials down this way (Devon) it tends to be a WCRC 37/47 or 57.
The steam locomotive can then head off to a location where it can be turned (on a triangle/turntable etc) while the diesel shunts the stock in preparation for the return journey.
I’m assuming from your question that you were partly talking about modern day steam specials?

 

[Spartacus]

Funny enough today’s solution isn’t far removed from what happened in regular loco-hauled days, except that the loco used to release the stock usually arrives on the rear of the train, and usually takes the steam loco with it. Most city termini were too crowded to have space for a loop or headshunt, it was usually more effective to have small locos dedicated to the job of shunting the carriages out, or just backing a fresh loco on if there was a short turnaround. In cases where the city was on a through route but only had a terminus station sometimes they had avoiding lines that through services would take, with passengers expected to change at a suburban station and catch a local in the rest of the way.

 

[kje7812]

Or you got niche: Birmingham Moor St had traversers http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1223.htm and one of the bays at Snow Hill had a sector table http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh70.htm

 

[Cowley]

Or you got niche: Birmingham Moor St had traversers http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1223.htm and one of the bays at Snow Hill had a sector table http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh70.htm

That is niche. Brilliant though.

 

[Doomotron]

Or you got niche: Birmingham Moor St had traversers http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1223.htm and one of the bays at Snow Hill had a sector table http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh70.htm

OK that's cool.

 

[DarloRich]

Or you got niche: Birmingham Moor St had traversers http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1223.htm and one of the bays at Snow Hill had a sector table http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh70.htm

interesting - traversers are or were fairly common at works

 

[PeterC]

I had heard of traversers of course but the sector table was entirely new to me.

 

[najaB]

One slightly scary thing was that usually the loco trapped against the buffers would follow a short distance behind the train as it left the platform, stopping at the far end to await a route into a siding.

No reason for it to be scary the departing train would be accelerating away and the loco would (should) be driven at low speed, ready to stop on sight. No reason for it to be more dangerous than a coupling move these days.

 

[edwin_m]

No reason for it to be scary the departing train would be accelerating away and the loco would (should) be driven at low speed, ready to stop on sight. No reason for it to be more dangerous than a coupling move these days.

Obviously it happened lots of times without incident but I do wonder what would have happened if the departing train had dumped the brakes suddenly.

 

[delt1c]

Obviously it happened lots of times without incident but I do wonder what would have happened if the departing train had dumped the brakes suddenly.

Todays health and safety regime, what if? It happened numerous times every day without incident, a credit to the staff who knew their jobs and were alert. Problem today is we live in a what if society and place responsibility on others.

 

[HSTEd]

Obviously it happened lots of times without incident but I do wonder what would have happened if the departing train had dumped the brakes suddenly.

I assume the driver would be instructed to only follow at a speed that would permit him to stop if the train hit a figurative concrete wall.

 

[edwin_m]

I assume the driver would be instructed to only follow at a speed that would permit him to stop if the train hit a figurative concrete wall.

I assume so but it still seemed rather scary to me (I was only about 9 when first witnessing this at Manchester Piccadilly). I think it was banned soon after the advent of DVTs meant it would only happen occasionally, presumably because drivers would be less familiar with it.

 

[Scotrail84]

Engine release roads were common at terminal stations were the not? Doesn't Man Pic still have one?

 

[scotraildriver]

This practice can still happen in depots. I've entered a fuelling shed and the train in front has moved off the fuelling point, so I follow it into the shed. I am responsible for ensuring I follow at a speed and distance appropriate for the movement, and can stop in plenty of time if required.

 

[Taunton]

In steam days it was less common at main termini for the incoming train to form a subsequent directly outgoing one, they were more often drawn back out by local pilot locos to sidings where the cleaning etc took place, so the incoming loco tended to not spend much time on the stops. Paddington had specific tracks both in and out to the loco and carriage depots at Old Oak. Paddington also had a procedure which did not seem common in steam days elsewhere, of sometimes using as the pilot loco for stock returning for a departure a main line tender loco which was taking a later departure, which would haul the stock in tender first, and accounts for the many photos from steam days of locos seemingly on the stops at Paddington the "wrong way round", as well as tender-first haulage which was otherwise GWR anathema. In steam heat days it was desired on main line services to have a pilot loco supplying steam heat in winter, before the main train loco arrived.

When diesel/electric locos came along, more intensive use of the coaching stock and cleaning in the platform could mean the incoming loco was trapped for some time; when DVTs came to the WCML they made a very considerable reduction in the number of locos actually required, which now ran far more intensively all day, as Euston, Liverpool and Manchester were all dead end stations. One factor however that led to the continuation of some pilot loco practices was the limited fuel capacity of the earlier diesels, which could not do an all day duty on one tank, and would need to be released for refuelling.

At Taunton (have to get it in somewhere) in final steam days the shunting of terminating trains back across the layout at the west end of ths station, from Minehead, Barnstaple and Exeter locals, was an endless process all day, not helped by there being just not quite the crossovers in place for stock to be drawn back from the Up arrival bay and then be propelled straight back into the two Down departure bays, so a double shunt on the main lines was needed, and thus it was preferred to bring up terminating locals into a main platform. A pannier tank, and at the end a Class 08 diesel, were engaged on this pilot work all day long, which all had to be fitted in between main line traffic both ways.

 

[Overspeed110]

Engine release roads were common at terminal stations were the not? Doesn't Man Pic still have one?

It does.

 

[edwin_m]

It does.

Piccadilly has a release crossover in one pair of platforms (so the engine being released has to exit via the other platform track). A few termini had non-platform tracks between the platform tracks for the purposes of engine release, but most major stations didn't as they would have pilot engines available instead, and it would be a fairly unproductive use of expensive land. I think Piccadilly had these on some platforms until the re-building in the 1960s.

 

[lewisf]

A few termini had non-platform tracks between the platform tracks for the purposes of engine release, but most major stations didn't as they would have pilot engines available instead, and it would be a fairly unproductive use of expensive land.

There's a large gap between platforms 2 and 3 at Brighton where there was once a release road, although since that line has been worked by EMUs since the 30s I don't think it could have seen much use in the last 80 years.

 

[Scotrail84]

At Waverley at the West end theres still 16, the mid road then 17.

There was a mid road at the East end as well, I think between 2 and 3.

 

[James James]

This practice can still happen in depots. I've entered a fuelling shed and the train in front has moved off the fuelling point, so I follow it into the shed. I am responsible for ensuring I follow at a speed and distance appropriate for the movement, and can stop in plenty of time if required.

Also happens all over the continent, without issues, in stations. Both with MU's and locos. The gap they use is always pretty large (you'd need some impressive coordination to start at the same time as the preceeding train...), and it's hard to understand how it could be unsafe.

 

[wimbledonpete]

Another odd example was Bembridge on the Isle of Wight - didn't have space for a full engine release space on to the run-round loop so had to have a short turntable instead. Not sure if there were other examples of this.

 

[Ianno87]

Also happens all over the continent, without issues, in stations. Both with MU's and locos. The gap they use is always pretty large (you'd need some impressive coordination to start at the same time as the preceeding train...), and it's hard to understand how it could be unsafe.

At Cambridge, when a King's Lynn train splits in Platform 1 (front unit onwards, rear unit ECS to sidings), the ECS unit usually starts rolling up towards the signal pretty sharpish after the front unit pulls away. Pretty sure they do however wait until the front unit has passed the signal.

Rolling up the ECS unit in this way presumably being (through occupancy of the relevant track circuits) a prompt for the signaller to set the route for the ECS (something not to be done prematurely due to the length of time needed to eventually get clear of the main line)