Steam Locos and Turntables/ Wyes

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4F89

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Do any of the main terminals have anything close these days? Say a steam train runs into Euston, how far does it need to travel to be pointing back north?
 
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MarlowDonkey

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Do any of the main terminals have anything close these days?

From Paddington, West Ealing or Greenford can be used. The option of just going out and back round the Greenford Branch became unavailable when the route up the "New North Line" from Old Oak Common was severed as a result of work for HS2.
 

Mollman

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Scarborough is the only place I can think of with one (exclude places with access to a heritage railway), I though Stratford-upon-Avon did but can't see one on Google Maps.
 

popeter45

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From Paddington, West Ealing or Greenford can be used. The option of just going out and back round the Greenford Branch became unavailable when the route up the "New North Line" from Old Oak Common was severed as a result of work for HS2.
could also in theory use the st pancreas domestic HS1 platforms but yea dont think any mainline turntables exist anymore
 

Bedpan

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Thirty odd years ago there used to be one at Marylebone, when there were fairly regular steam excursions to Stratford on Avon. The turntable es removed in 2002 and moved to Fort William, I'm not too sure what the point of it being there is as there wold have to be a corresponding way of turning locos at Mallaig if tender first running was to be avoided. Perhaps they use it to turn locos periodically to avoid uneven tyre wear or something.
 

ainsworth74

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Aberdeen has one which I think was refurbished a few years ago and has been used by various steam charters to turn the locomotive around but other than Scarborough I'm not sure if there are any more outside of heritage railways or depots (Neville Hill has a turntable for instance).

Most of the time they either get hauled by a diesel or run somewhere nearby where there's a triangular junction layout or similar they can use.
 

Bedpan

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It would be interesting to develop the thread into what is the shortest route you can take nowadays to turn a loco at the London terminals and other major stations. For instance, for Waterloo, I would say leave the main line at West London Extension Junction, reverse at Latchmere SW Junction, back up into Clapham Junction and then reverse again and proceed back into Waterloo. But that must be one of the easier ones.
 

4F89

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It would be interesting to develop the thread into what is the shortest route you can take nowadays to turn a loco at the London terminals and other major stations. For instance, for Waterloo, I would say leave the main line at West London Extension Junction, reverse at Latchmere SW Junction, back up into Clapham Junction and then reverse again and proceed back into Waterloo. But that must be one of the easier ones.
Yeah, that was kinda my point
 

Railcar

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When Flying Scotsman visited the Bluebell Railway in 2017, I believe it was turned at Selhurst, using the line through Selhurst Depot that links the lines from Victoria and London Bridge.
 

paul1609

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could also in theory use the st pancreas domestic HS1 platforms but yea dont think any mainline turntables exist anymore
I think only Steam Locos fitted with LZB and TVM could be turned at St Pancras. There are lots of loops a loco could run round on the Southern Region to change direction.
 

terryc

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There's a triangle at Chester, and steam charters to Holyhead turn the loco at the triangle at Valley.
There's also a triangle at Wavertree, Liverpool using the olive mount chord, but I'm unsure if that's ever been used for turning a loco
 

Bevan Price

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There's a triangle at Chester, and steam charters to Holyhead turn the loco at the triangle at Valley.
There's also a triangle at Wavertree, Liverpool using the olive mount chord, but I'm unsure if that's ever been used for turning a loco
That depends on whether or not the signalling permits the necessary movements. It was used up to about 1980, but that was before the chord was closed, and subsequently reopened.
Until it went out of action, they used the triangle at Allerton / Speke Jn.
More recently, they had to use Earlestown triangle, which can involve almost 15 miles of tender-first running (each way)
 

Iskra

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There's a triangle at Chester, and steam charters to Holyhead turn the loco at the triangle at Valley.
There's also a triangle at Wavertree, Liverpool using the olive mount chord, but I'm unsure if that's ever been used for turning a loco
That depends on whether or not the signalling permits the necessary movements. It was used up to about 1980, but that was before the chord was closed, and subsequently reopened.
Until it went out of action, they used the triangle at Allerton / Speke Jn.
More recently, they had to use Earlestown triangle, which can involve almost 15 miles of tender-first running (each way)

A tour that I did a couple of years back that needed to turn at Liverpool did a triangle out onto the WCML and then back via St Helens with the full train.

Also tours to Carlisle can use the track arrangement South of the station to turn.

Newcastle tours can turn using the two bridges as well, from the South at least. Not sure about the North though.*

There is a triangle at Laira depot too for turning too which I've covered. Canton has a triangle around it, so I'm guessing there too, but I've not personally done it? Same at Swansea.

*I've just checked and it looks like it could be done from the North too, but looks complex.
 
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6Gman

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Do any of the main terminals have anything close these days? Say a steam train runs into Euston, how far does it need to travel to be pointing back north?

Euston to Willesden Jn (Acton Branch) REVERSE to Acton Wells REVERSE to West London Jn to Euston ?

About 15 miles ?

Not sure if it's signalled though.
 

thenorthern

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Around the Cumbrian Coast they used to run to Sellafield and use the triangular junction there to turn around before returning. The reason why Sellafield I was told was because it was suitable for turning round the locomotive and at the time unmodified trains with drop windows were banned from going between Maryport and Carlisle.
 

delticdave

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Any visitors to West Somerset Railway can now turn on a turntable at Minehead.
Isn't there a triangle at Norton Fitzwarren on the WSR? Usually used to turn any main-line approved loco that has worked a train onto the WSR & will work it back home. As for London area, there's a triangle junction just before Stratford station that could turn a whole top & tailed train. (Channelsea curves?)
 

MadMac

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Thinking of some Scottish “major stations” examples:

Glasgow Central - four “triangular” options close by

Glasgow Queen Street - two triangles at Cowlairs

Edinburgh Waverley - Millerhill, Niddrie West and back, or Monktonhall, Borders line and back?

Perth or Dundee - round the Fife Circle?
 

Bedpan

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Cannon Street - Waterloo East - London Bridge - Cannon Street would be less than 3 miles crossovers permitting. Blackfriars and Charing Cross could use the same triangle.
 

MarkyT

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In the west country, there are a number of options for turning a steam loco:

Bristol - A number of maneuvres available around the Temple Meads area via the triangular junction (wye) to the east of the station or St Philips Marsh depot 'balloon loop'. Triangular junctions galore exist around Parkway/Filton.
Westbury - The triangular junction at the east end of the station.
Salisbury - The triangular form junction to the east of the city known as the 'Laverstock Loop'
Yeovil - Railway Centre turntable.
Taunton - West Somerset Railway triangle (wye) at Norton Fitzwarren or turntable at Minehead.
Paignton - Dartmouth Steam Railway turntable at Churston.
Plymouth - The triangle at Laira depot.
Cornwall - The turntable at St Blazey depot, near Par.

There are also a number of itineraries that allow a turn en-route such as London to Exeter out via the GWR route and returning via the LSWR or vice versa. Similar possibilities around Bristol and Laverstock loop. The Bath, Chippenham, Trowbridge sub-network also forms a large triangle that could plausibly be used as a turning triangle for a loco or leg(s) thereof used as part of a circular itinerary for a complete train. Arriving from the Bristol direction, an excursion can also circumnavigate the Southampton area via the main station and return to Bristol, turning en route via Eastleigh - Romsey. Moving eastward along the south coast, there are more turning options but that's getting outside my stated 'west country' frame of reference.
 

O L Leigh

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For Anglia you have the Stansted triangle or Ely West Curve, all of which have been used to turn kettles. On the GE side there is the Manningtree triangle which could also be used.

Closer to “town” there’s the High Meads Loop at Stratford, but this doesn’t face Liverpool Street which would necessitate another shunt. I’m no longer au fait with the signalling arrangements, but one option would have been to run the steamer backwards via Stratford into Orient Way CS, one trip around the High Meads Loop back to Orient Way CS to turn the loco and then back to town via Stratford again.
 
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Ianno87

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Kings Cross requires (I think) out to Finsbury Park, then reverse via Canonbury single, reverse via Highbury & Islington then reverse at Camden Rd to head via Kings Cross incline and reverse again at Finsbury Park

Euston to Willesden Jn (Acton Branch) REVERSE to Acton Wells REVERSE to West London Jn to Euston ?

About 15 miles ?

Not sure if it's signalled though.

You'd need to first head to Acton Wells vis South West Sidings, reverse to Willesden Jn High Level turnback siding, reverse to Mitre Bridge Jn, reverse to South West Sidings (again), then reverse to Euston (4 reversals total)


Or head via Acton Wells, Acton Bank, West Ealing and turn on the Greenford Triangle.
 

jopsuk

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surprised Locomotive Services at Southall don't have one- I realise they're close to the Greenford Y, but you would think operationally it would be bet better to have one on site rather than getting paths on a busy mainline
 

delticdave

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For Anglia you have the Stansted triangle or Ely West Curve, all of which have been used to turn kettles. On the GE side there is the Manningtree triangle which could also be used.

Closer to “town” there’s the High Meads Loop at Stratford, but this doesn’t face Liverpool Street which would necessitate another shunt. I’m no longer au fait with the signalling arrangements, but one option would have been to run the steamer backwards via Stratford into Orient Way CS, one trip around the High Meads Loop back to Orient Way CS to turn the loco and then back to town via Stratford again.

Norwich can also turn a complete train, there's a signalled route alongside Crown Point depot. (Wensum Curve?)

Back in the days of the West Coast Night Mail the train used to be turned at Stratford via Temple Mills, in & out of the sidings twice..... I might have pix somewhere, but not digital.
 
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