Steam Preservation - the future?

[Flying Phil]

I saw this posted on another thread and thought it deserved a new thread...Baxenden Bank said...
"I'm not a follower of the preserved scene, but there seems to be a fair amount of chatter on this forum about the difficulties attracting passengers, raising money for extensions / major repairs and attracting / retaining volunteers. Attracting volunteers or participants seems to be a problem facing society generally, I feel probably because there are so many things competing for people's time and money nowadays."

Whilst I would argue that - despite the obvious difficulties, there are probably more volunteers, funds raised and schemes expanding, than ever before, are we, in fact, just about reaching the "high water mark" as the age demographic of steam enthusiasts who remember BR steam are now into retirement. Obviously there are many younger people involved now (all credit to them!) but are they sufficient for the future?
However I also remember back in the 80's, similar fears that there were too many schemes being mooted.....East Lancs, GWR GCR expansion etc all too much!

 

[tiptoptaff]

There's going to be a shift in the market for steam preservation. There seems to be still a steady stream of volunteers coming through at our place. Only time will tell how it pans out

 

[Cowley]

There's going to be a shift in the market for steam preservation. There seems to be still a steady stream of volunteers coming through at our place. Only time will tell how it pans out

Tiptoptaff - Am I right in thinking you’re at the West Somerset?
The WSR seems to have a healthy contingent of younger volunteers in its ranks, so is obviously doing something right.

I’m feeling reasonably confident that most of the larger railways will stand the test of time. The longer these lines survive and strengthen their position, then the more history of their own they make and the more (hopefully) they will attract people that want to get involved, not so sure about some of the newer schemes, but the movement never fails to surprise.
Maybe there’s something in this though - In my younger days (pre children) I did a lot of volunteering at the Mid Hants, and I was able to get properly involved in lots of different aspects of the railway because the health and safety culture hadn’t really taken hold back then. There were a lot of experienced ex footplate staff around still too.
These days it might be possible to work your way up to a fairly senior position (as a volunteer or as paid staff) at a preserved railway without ever having worked for BR (or perhaps even in any railway role whatsoever) if you’re keen and willing to learn and have the right attitude and aptitude. And we all know what happens when you get bitten by the railway bug...
I’ve come across lots of volunteers that had no interest in railways until they got involved in one (often just due to a friendly chat with a volunteer working on a train and telling them how they got involved), yet these people have suddenly found themselves a part of a scheme that they feel proud to be a part of. I hope to do this myself again in a few years time as it feels good...

I’ve been trying to look up the name of that outspoken general manager of the Severn Valley Railway in the late 80s/early 90s who confidently predicted that lots of preserved lines would go under in the early 90s due to lack of volunteers/money/being dreamers etc.
Can anyone remember his name? Michael something or other maybe?

 

[Flying Phil]

I think the GM of the SVR was Michael Draper - and I seem to remember he left under a bit of a cloud (court case and financial irregularity??)

 

[Cowley]

I think the GM of the SVR was Michael Draper - and I seem to remember he left under a bit of a cloud (court case and financial irregularity??)

Thanks Phil, yes that’s him.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Tiptoptaff - Am I right in thinking you’re at the West Somerset?
The WSR seems to have a healthy contingent of younger volunteers in its ranks, so is obviously doing something right.

I’m feeling reasonably confident that most of the larger railways will stand the test of time. The longer these lines survive and strengthen their position, then the more history of their own they make and the more (hopefully) they will attract people that want to get involved, not so sure about some of the newer schemes, but the movement never fails to surprise.
Maybe there’s something in this though - In my younger days (pre children) I did a lot of volunteering at the Mid Hants, and I was able to get properly involved in lots of different aspects of the railway because the health and safety culture hadn’t really taken hold back then. There were a lot of experienced ex footplate staff around still too.
These days it might be possible to work your way up to a fairly senior position (as a volunteer or as paid staff) at a preserved railway without ever having worked for BR (or perhaps even in any railway role whatsoever) if you’re keen and willing to learn and have the right attitude and aptitude. And we all know what happens when you get bitten by the railway bug...
I’ve come across lots of volunteers that had no interest in railways until they got involved in one (often just due to a friendly chat with a volunteer working on a train and telling them how they got involved), yet these people have suddenly found themselves a part of a scheme that they feel proud to be a part of. I hope to do this myself again in a few years time as it feels good...

I’ve been trying to look up the name of that outspoken general manager of the Severn Valley Railway in the late 80s/early 90s who confidently predicted that lots of preserved lines would go under in the early 90s due to lack of volunteers/money/being dreamers etc.
Can anyone remember his name? Michael something or other maybe?

Yes I am - we have 3 drivers under the age of 30, several fireman under that age too. I'm one of many fireman under 25. We do well enough, and we have several young volunteers in other grades such as guards and signallers. It's across the board we need to think about going forward. We as footplate crew can't run the railway on our own!

 

[The_Engineer]

A very personal view - I think there are too many preserved railways at the moment. I applaud the "larger" ones who have embraced business ethics to run a tourist attraction, but still maintain a high degree of authenticism. At the opposite end we have a number of smaller preserved railways who struggle financially, and present a very poor offering to the tourist. Expecting the public to travel past, and view, lines of decaying locomotives and rolling stock, covered in moss, is a very big turn off. I am a life long railway enthusiast and professional rolling stock engineer, and even I choose not to visit railways with a poor visitor offering (not a second time, at least....).

I think the solution will be one of natural selection. The ones that get it right will survive. Even in 50 years time I am sure people will love the "back in time" appeal of the preserved railway. Provided preserved railways move with the times and "grow their own" future staff from youth trainees they will prosper. I can foresee that many of the smaller ones will naturally collapse and die.......

 

[The_Engineer]

I’ve come across lots of volunteers that had no interest in railways until they got involved in one (often just due to a friendly chat with a volunteer working on a train and telling them how they got involved), yet these people have suddenly found themselves a part of a scheme that they feel proud to be a part of. I hope to do this myself again in a few years time as it feels good...

The very recent programme on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway was an eye-opener in this respect. Non-railway, non-enthusiast people now in positions of senior responsibility and so VERY enthusiastic about their work.

 

[Cowley]

The very recent programme on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway was an eye-opener in this respect. Non-railway, non-enthusiast people now in positions of senior responsibility and so VERY enthusiastic about their work.

I must watch that this weekend. While watching the BBC program on Flying Scotsman last year I was struck by how young a lot of the people involved in it were, and the pride that they had in it too.
It’s interesting what Tiptoptaff says about trying to recruit staff to all areas of the railway - there’s always been roles that are difficult to fill I guess.

As you said in post #7, some of the smaller railways may well fall by the wayside over time.
Some of the more established lines though may reach 100 years of preserved operation during the lifetime of some our forum members (some lines have already reached 60 plus years).
By 2037 for instance, The Bluebell Railway (hopefully I’ve got my maths right here) will have spent more time as a preserved line than as part of the railway network!
The longer time goes on then the more these small pockets of the way life used to be will stand out, and thus hopefully make them even more attractive as a way of stepping back in time - even if they are preserved in aspic to some degree.
Who knows what TV series or popular films might come out over the next few years which spark a bit of railway interest in the general public too? Like the Harry Potter films for instance.

I think the future looks bright for the majority of lines as long as they carry on being run professionally.

 

[theblackwatch]

I must watch that this weekend. While watching the BBC program on Flying Scotsman last year I was struck by how young a lot of the people involved in it were, and the pride that they had in it too.
It’s interesting what Tiptoptaff says about trying to recruit staff to all areas of the railway - there’s always been roles that are difficult to fill I guess.

Certainly at many railways there are volunteers who would better be described as 'locals' rather than enthusiasts. Some of these people may well have visited very few, if any, other preserved railways. Regarding 'young' people, it's probably worth mentioning that its almost 50 years since steam finished on BR, so the number of volunteers who can actually remember this is decreasing and will continue to do so - how many of those who remember steam will still be around, and well enough to volunteer, in 2030?

 

[Gostav]

Certainly at many railways there are volunteers who would better be described as 'locals' rather than enthusiasts. Some of these people may well have visited very few, if any, other preserved railways. Regarding 'young' people, it's probably worth mentioning that its almost 50 years since steam finished on BR, so the number of volunteers who can actually remember this is decreasing and will continue to do so - how many of those who remember steam will still be around, and well enough to volunteer, in 2030?

I was born in 1995 and always have been interested in steam loco, even l am not a British. (I came to the UK to design a railway game)

 

[RingingEars66]

All praise Lord Thomuzz of th' Tankengun.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Certainly at many railways there are volunteers who would better be described as 'locals' rather than enthusiasts. Some of these people may well have visited very few, if any, other preserved railways. Regarding 'young' people, it's probably worth mentioning that its almost 50 years since steam finished on BR, so the number of volunteers who can actually remember this is decreasing and will continue to do so - how many of those who remember steam will still be around, and well enough to volunteer, in 2030?

I suspect this has been true for some decades. I remember going on the Midland Railway Centre Butterly line in 1990 and realising even then that the 'ticket inspector' on the train could not have remembered steam working on BR. Indeed, the lad confirmed it when I questioned him. I suspect it has long been true that a majority of staff on preserved lines are there for the comradeship and sense of joint achievement in successfully running a railway operation rather than a nostalgia trip. And I'm sure that the management of such railways has long realised this too.

As for 2030 - I suspect there will be very, very few active volunteers by that time who remember BR steam - and even fewer who actually worked on them. Apart from the Vale of Rheidol, you would have had to have been born - at the very latest - in 1953 to have worked on steam on BR - and honestly, I supspect very few will have done that. So that makes the cut off year for the vast majority as 1952. Those people will be 78 in 2030,

 

[70014IronDuke]

I was born in 1995 and always have been interested in steam loco, even l am not a British. (I came to the UK to design a railway game)

That is truly remakable. But could hold you in good stead should you apply for citizenship.

 

[trash80]

Railway enthusiasm will survive after the people who saw the "real thing" have passed, after all we have people who reenact the civil war and certainly none of those were around in the 17th century!

 

[RobJW]

A very personal view - I think there are too many preserved railways at the moment.

I live near a small preserved line. It has a couple of big mainline locomotives from Barry scrapyard that have been "under restoration" for 2 decades with little signs of being anywhere near running order.

I think like many other projects, it started with real momentum and intent and has slowly lost both. Their only working steam loco was an industrial tank engine that hasn't been in service for 18 months.

How many people really aspire to pay to be shuttled up and down a few thousand metres of track by a diesel shunter at 25mph?

 

[theironroad]

As someone who has never been involved with heritage railway, a couple of thoughts.

I'd agree that most people don't want to see in essence a scrap yard of rusting old metal when they're taking the family for a day out.

I'm staggered at some of the costs involved in loco restoration, hundreds of thousands of pounds just for a new boiler.

I don't think the fact that a time will come when there is no one left who remembers steam and loco diesel as normal BR services will make much difference. Sure there will be people who use it as a trip to their youth or 'good old days' but a steam trip on a nicely presented and comfortable train through beautiful scenery with a decent catering offering will attract people.

I can't imagine heritage railways would be able to run without the free labour provided by volunteers, but I can't comment on how good volunteer supply is, though a couple of rail mags seem to have plenty of adverts for volunteers. Is there plenty of new blood of whatever age coming in?

What does seem tonne under threat, if WCRC are to be believed, is that a shortage of mainline qualified steam drivers will lead to a reduction in mainline steam charters. I'd imagine the pool of heritage railway steam drivers who are also mainline drivers is pretty small nationally. That leaves two options, someone needs to train more mainline steam drivers or commercial companies like DB will be the only operators left. How secure and profitable is steam when the core company is a international freight operator?

 

[theironroad]

Railway enthusiasm will survive after the people who saw the "real thing" have passed, after all we have people who reenact the civil war and certainly none of those were around in the 17th century!

Very true.

 

[theironroad]

We as footplate crew can't run the railway on our own!

You might want to mention that to Chris Grayling and the DfT!