Steeton and Silsden car park extension. £4.6m for 104 extra spaces

[Grumpy]

The Bradford Telegraph and Argos reports that " A “Park and rail” scheme that would see a new multi storey car park built at Steeton and Silsden Train Station will cost over £750,000 more than expected, and will not be ready until 14 months after the original completion date. "

New station car park - originally due to be completed this month, now unlikely to open before 2022

A “PARK and rail” scheme that would see a new multi storey car park built at Steeton and Silsden Train Station will cost over £750,000 more…

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

Perhaps I'm out of touch, but I cant help thinking that spending £46k to provide each parking space, which is then free to users, is a waste of taxpayers money.

If you annualise that to take account of depreciation/amortisation, interest. lighting, maintenance etc. at,say, 5% pa, then divide by the likely number of working days when the spaces might be used the daily cost is likely to exceed the income from the train ticket. Barmy.

The money would have been better spent on something else, such as being put towards a station at Cross Hills

 

[DB]

The Bradford Telegraph and Argos reports that " A “Park and rail” scheme that would see a new multi storey car park built at Steeton and Silsden Train Station will cost over £750,000 more than expected, and will not be ready until 14 months after the original completion date. "

New station car park - originally due to be completed this month, now unlikely to open before 2022

A “PARK and rail” scheme that would see a new multi storey car park built at Steeton and Silsden Train Station will cost over £750,000 more…

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

Perhaps I'm out of touch, but I cant help thinking that spending £46k to provide each parking space, which is then free to users, is a waste of taxpayers money.
The money would have been better spent on something else, such as being put towards a station at Cross Hills

It would make sense to have another station there - somewhere near the level crossing. That sprawl of linked villages (Steeton, Eastburn, Cross Hills, Glusburn, Kildwick, Farnhill) is actually quite large, and Steeton station is right at the southern edge.

 

[BantamMenace]

What effect would a station there have on the amount of time the crossing was down? It’s already excruciating, something like 25 minutes in every hour.

 

[bluenoxid]

What effect would a station there have on the amount of time the crossing was down? It’s already excruciating, something like 25 minutes in every hour.

It would extend it but I understand that a bridge would be required before a station could be reasonably delivered

 

[stuu]

A free multi-storey car park???? I don't think I have ever come across one in nearly 30 years of driving. The concept of free parking at a station is not one I have really come across either. How on earth is that justifiable?

 

[northernchris]

It would make sense to have another station there - somewhere near the level crossing. That sprawl of linked villages (Steeton, Eastburn, Cross Hills, Glusburn, Kildwick, Farnhill) is actually quite large, and Steeton station is right at the southern edge.

I think having the station just within the West Yorkshire boundary, and thus making the Metro products available, is part of the attraction of Steeton & Silsden. There used to be a sizeable number of commuters who would drive over from parts of East Lancashire as it was the quickest and cheapest option. It's also near the bypass, so has good access to many places although can be a nightmare if you're heading through Steeton village!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

More trains, more time with the barriers down, makes train travel more attractive and driving less so
What's not to like?

Just hope the cops go there and book drivers who leave their engines running while waiting

 

[30907]

A free multi-storey car park???? I don't think I have ever come across one in nearly 30 years of driving. The concept of free parking at a station is not one I have really come across either. How on earth is that justifiable?

It is WY policy, encouraging modal shift presumably. Maybe time to rethink?

I presume the multi-storey solution is cheaper than buying land on the Bypass side of the line PLUS all the access roads.

The car park at Steeton was full almost from the start - I tried using it when I first moved to Cononley in 1990 because it was cheaper and traffic has grown enormously since then!

 

[Ianno87]

A free multi-storey car park???? I don't think I have ever come across one in nearly 30 years of driving. The concept of free parking at a station is not one I have really come across either. How on earth is that justifiable?

It's pretty standard in all PTE areas for 'local' stations. In fairness, generally in competition with easy driving and relatively inexpensive city centre parking.

Meanwhile, in London & South East, the idea of free station parking is fanciful, even at small stations, given how unattractive the alternative generally is.

 

[northernchris]

It is WY policy, encouraging modal shift presumably. Maybe time to rethink?

Wasn't there something a few years ago where it was looked at charging for car parking, but Metro/Northern instead opted for the evening peak restrictions?

 

[bluenoxid]

I presume the multi-storey solution is cheaper than buying land on the Bypass side of the line PLUS all the access roads.

The uncompromising Aire Valley flood plain at this point also knocks back any bypass side car parks. They could build the land up but the risk is that certain areas downstream could see the frequency and severity of flood events increase. The land between the bypass and the railway line acts as water storage.

 

[Ianno87]

Wasn't there something a few years ago where it was looked at charging for car parking, but Metro/Northern instead opted for the evening peak restrictions?

Yes, it was a choice between PM peak restrictions, or charging for car parks, in about 2014-ish. I think keeping free car parks was at the insistence of the various PTEs.

 

[30907]

The uncompromising Aire Valley flood plain at this point also knocks back any bypass side car parks. They could build the land up but the risk is that certain areas downstream could see the frequency and severity of flood events increase. The land between the bypass and the railway line acts as water storage.

Good point, though I don't recall the "industrial" land immediately opposite the existing car park flooding routinely (unlike most of the Ings flood plain).
The road access would be dire anyway.

 

[Taunton]

A free multi-storey car park???? I don't think I have ever come across one in nearly 30 years of driving. The concept of free parking at a station is not one I have really come across either. How on earth is that justifiable?

There are plenty of them, even around Greater London. Lakeside and Bluewater shopping centres for a start. It's an integral part of why they were successful.

The issue with them is if you put just one extra level on, you don't really get much of an increase in capacity, as the additional top floor space is compensated by space needed for all the ramps etc.

Charging for previously free car parks is often proposed by rail advocates/local politicians, who don't understand the elasticity of demand curve for parking. Start charging (and, worse, zealously enforcing) and you drive away a considerable proportion of your parking, and thus rail use, trade.

 

[YorksLad12]

The money would have been better spent on something else, such as being put towards a station at Cross Hills

Crosshills was always unlikely to happen as it's not in West Yorkshire, so no funding from the PTE/CA/Local Transport Plan. £4.6m would buy you about one-third of a new station (Low Moor cost £10.5m, I think; Kirkstall Forge and Apperley Bridge together were just under £16m).

It's an expensive car park (in that it's more expensive than planned, and delayed) but you can see the cars parked on the road outside on Google Maps, so it is clearly needed. Pity the same can't be done at Menston, which has the same problems of people driving over the border or coming down from Otley.

 

[kieron]

It would extend it but I understand that a bridge would be required before a station could be reasonably delivered

WYCA investigated the idea of building a station in Cross Hills in 2017 (report here). On building a bridge, it says:

It is understood that the closure of Kildwick Level Crossing has been investigated in a previous study that identified bridge construction costs in the region of £6 million and struggled to make a positive business case. Consequently, this option has not been investigated further in this study.

It does suggest changes to the signalling so the crossing can stay open until a train leaves the platform, but I couldn't work out what effect they expected all of this to have on how long the crossing closes.

NYCC decided not to proceed with the proposal then (article here). Unless something has changed in the last few years, a couple of million pounds now isn't going to make much difference.

A free multi-storey car park???? I don't think I have ever come across one in nearly 30 years of driving. The concept of free parking at a station is not one I have really come across either. How on earth is that justifiable?

I don't know the situation in Steeton, but you can't charge people to park at a station if they can park for free nearby.

As for multi-storey car parks, the two-level car park by Castle Heights in Flint was free to park in (although I assume the garages were charged for). They've knocked it down now, though.

 

[HSTEd]

I'd be interesting to see the cost benefit of a fully engineered multi story car park versus one of those automated parking systems.
Even higher densities.

 

[Neptune]

Just hope the cops go there and book drivers who leave their engines running while waiting

a) Is this a new or made up traffic law. Over my 27 years of driving I’ve never been made aware that it is illegal to keep your engine running whilst waiting at a red light. If that’s the case thank goodness I have stop start these days.

b) What a wonderful waste of police resources if it is law.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Makes sense to stop the engine if waiting for more than a moment, many modern cars do it automatically
I found it quite relaxing

 

[30907]

I don't know the situation in Steeton, but you can't charge people to park at a station if they can park for free nearby.

The obvious free parking has been full since the 1990s too.

 

[edwin_m]

I read something several years ago (in the context of employers subsidizing people who drive to work) that the average cost of providing a car parking space was £400 per year. That sounds about right for this one if the capital and operating costs are annualized - being in a rural area might push it down a bit but being multi storey would (at the risk of a bad pun) push it up.

Usual policy outside the South East is to provide free parking at suburban/rural stations served by regional services, where providing a parking space prevents someone driving into the city and maybe further. However car parks at town centre stations are generally chargeable, either to deter people driving into the town or because they are run by intercity operators who can make a profit on them.

 

[stuu]

There are plenty of them, even around Greater London. Lakeside and Bluewater shopping centres for a start. It's an integral part of why they were successful.

The issue with them is if you put just one extra level on, you don't really get much of an increase in capacity, as the additional top floor space is compensated by space needed for all the ramps etc.

Charging for previously free car parks is often proposed by rail advocates/local politicians, who don't understand the elasticity of demand curve for parking. Start charging (and, worse, zealously enforcing) and you drive away a considerable proportion of your parking, and thus rail use, trade.

Oh yes, fair point!

I guess the ratio between ticket price and parking price is important, if you are spending £50 or more on the train then a fiver to park a car is not so painful, but when it is a big chunk of the cost of the train ticket it's a far bigger disincentive

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Parking vehicles, that are generally getting larger, uses enormous amounts of space. Typically each vehicle has three spaces: at home, at work (or station) and at the shops, indeed at the shops car parks are generally overdimensioned, they might be full just a few hours in December

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

It doesn't help that pedestrian and cycling access to Steeton and Silsden is pretty terrible. With no safe crossing points across the Airedale Expressway, a lot of people in Silsden drive to the station just as a safe way to get there! On the Steeton side, all the old footpaths and such are long gone so to get any where west of the station you have to walk up to the crossroads at the Goats Head (no bad thing to have to walk past the pub of course!) rather than cut any of that corner off, which makes the walk pretty lengthy. There is a half-built footpath through the new housing estate that runs into a fence at the DVLA testing centre - that would make the walk from the Hospital 15 minutes rather than the 25ish it is currently, which if completed would improve access and might encourage some modal shift too...

But instead, more free-parking it is, I suppose.

 

[bluenoxid]

What happened with proposals for a footbridge over the Aire Valley Trunk Road?

 

[30907]

It doesn't help that pedestrian and cycling access to Steeton and Silsden is pretty terrible. With no safe crossing points across the Airedale Expressway, a lot of people in Silsden drive to the station just as a safe way to get there!
On the Steeton side, ....There is a half-built footpath through the new housing estate that runs into a fence at the DVLA testing centre - that would make the walk from the Hospital 15 minutes rather than the 25ish it is currently, which if completed would improve access and might encourage some modal shift too...

The walk from Silsden is certainly unpleasant (I did it before lockdown #1), but I suspect people drive because it's a fair distance from much of the township.
The longstanding lack of a decent footpath from the AGH is poor planning when the housing (or the hospital, not sure which came first!) was built, but it would be more use for staff/visitors than to persuade commuters to walk

What happened with proposals for a footbridge over the Aire Valley Trunk Road?

Wow, the business case was presented back in March...
https://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news...ridge-aire-valley-trunk-road-steeton-silsden/

(BTW and totally OT - does anyone else remember when the Craven Herald only had ads and auction mart prices on the front page - up to the 1990s?)

 

[bluenoxid]

The walk from Silsden is certainly unpleasant (I did it before lockdown #1), but I suspect people drive because it's a fair distance from much of the township.
The longstanding lack of a decent footpath from the AGH is poor planning when the housing (or the hospital, not sure which came first!) was built, but it would be more use for staff/visitors than to persuade commuters to walk


Wow, the business case was presented back in March...
https://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news...ridge-aire-valley-trunk-road-steeton-silsden/

(BTW and totally OT - does anyone else remember when the Craven Herald only had ads and auction mart prices on the front page - up to the 1990s?)

Hospital was constructed with some housing but a lot has been added in the past three decades. The housing estate next to the DVLA site has only just been added. The lack of a path through this area is galling.

Craven Herald kept advertising on the front page to 2009.

 

[apk55]

Manchester's Metrolink generally does not charge for car parking. I notice that they have built several multistory car parks including a huge one at Radcliffe and even at smaller station such as Hollinwood.