Stereo Speakers

[mikeg]

Hi, given that I've now been refunded for most of my cancelled holiday to Serbia and won't likely be able to go on such a holiday anytime soon, I've decided to treat myself in another way. The speakers I have (actually two different sets, which I use for different purposes) have always been a weak link in my hi-fi setup, both were bought from Richer Sounds towards the cheaper end of what they sell. I have some Gale silver monitors which are relatively poor for reproducing bass and don't perform too well if near a wall (to be expected as they're rear-ported), but aren't too terrible in other respects, bought these mostly for the compact size for uni may years ago. I also have some cheapish floorstanders (such a thing doesn't seem to exist anymore?) with dual 7" drivers and soft dome tweeters I actually don't mind them, they're front ported and produce a lot of bass but I have a feeling it's not very accurate, my understanding is you incur some delay of typically a wave or two by porting. To be honest given the room they're in placement may be an issue. I'm moving soon, so may wait.

The challenge then is to get some speakers hopefully for a semi-reasonable price that can reproduce bass accurately. All the spec sheets I've looked at seem to go down as low only as 50 or so Hertz on the frequency response. In some ways I kind of expect that given the size of drivers used, but I'm sure you used to be able to get speakers with drivers larger than six or seven inches for a reasonable price. So my question is, are there any semi-reasonable speakers with largeish drivers available for a price in the few hundred pounds range? Again sure such a thing used to exist. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places but all the hi fi places seem to be the same. I'm not one for paying ridiculous sums, or fancy cable, or any such snake-oil. I tend to go on a mix of spec and for accurate reproduction, as far as source equipment/amplification is concerned and wish to do the same for speakers.

The question is, are there such things as decent speakers for a reasonable(ish) price and if so what?

 

[John Webb]

You may find a look at https://cpc.farnell.com to be of interest. Under Home Audio HI-Fi it is mostly the usual small stuff, but under the professional lighting/sound section there are some much larger speakers. (I've been dealing with CPC for many years and found them very useful.)

 

[mikeg]

Interesting as they have a lot of kit for professional use.

There certainly seems to be a trend towards active speakers for monitoring, to put it lightly. I suppose from a home point of view I could look at far field monitors, go for a preamp setup and ditch my integrated hifi amp. Has anyone any experience of this from a sound quality POV?

In many ways it makes sense, match the amp to the speakers as all speakers have an uneven frequency repsonse. It's refreshing also that they supply the frequency response graphs as do the active monitors on pro audio sites. Something that seems to be missing on the hi fi front nowadays. Though have to confess I'm a little prejudiced against class D amplification maybe it's just hi fi snobbery which should be ditched?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I have always loved and owned KEF speakers. Has KEF since 1976.

 

[pdq]

Given the level of investment, I would be tempted to wait until your local hifi store is open again, then go and try some out with your own media and maybe your own amp if going for passive speakers. There really is no substitute for detailed and considered auditioning if you're serious about your kit.

When I upgraded my hifi last year I spent over an hour at Richer Sounds trying out speakers after shortlisting a few from reviews; after suggestions from the assistant I came out with a pair of Dali Oberon 1, that wasn't even on my radar but sounds fabulous for the size and the kind of music I listen to.

 

[cactustwirly]

Hi, given that I've now been refunded for most of my cancelled holiday to Serbia and won't likely be able to go on such a holiday anytime soon, I've decided to treat myself in another way. The speakers I have (actually two different sets, which I use for different purposes) have always been a weak link in my hi-fi setup, both were bought from Richer Sounds towards the cheaper end of what they sell. I have some Gale silver monitors which are relatively poor for reproducing bass and don't perform too well if near a wall (to be expected as they're rear-ported), but aren't too terrible in other respects, bought these mostly for the compact size for uni may years ago. I also have some cheapish floorstanders (such a thing doesn't seem to exist anymore?) with dual 7" drivers and soft dome tweeters I actually don't mind them, they're front ported and produce a lot of bass but I have a feeling it's not very accurate, my understanding is you incur some delay of typically a wave or two by porting. To be honest given the room they're in placement may be an issue. I'm moving soon, so may wait.

The challenge then is to get some speakers hopefully for a semi-reasonable price that can reproduce bass accurately. All the spec sheets I've looked at seem to go down as low only as 50 or so Hertz on the frequency response. In some ways I kind of expect that given the size of drivers used, but I'm sure you used to be able to get speakers with drivers larger than six or seven inches for a reasonable price. So my question is, are there any semi-reasonable speakers with largeish drivers available for a price in the few hundred pounds range? Again sure such a thing used to exist. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places but all the hi fi places seem to be the same. I'm not one for paying ridiculous sums, or fancy cable, or any such snake-oil. I tend to go on a mix of spec and for accurate reproduction, as far as source equipment/amplification is concerned and wish to do the same for speakers.

The question is, are there such things as decent speakers for a reasonable(ish) price and if so what?

What's your budget?
My Dali's were £200 for the pair, not cheap, but the sound quality is exceptional.
I think you can get a pair of Q acoustics speakers for around £120.
Cheap speakers that are £50 won't sound particularly goof imo

 

[dgl]

One thing that is generally reckoned is that an accurate pair of speakers will not have necessarily huge amounts of bass instead they will blend in to the background and not be noticed. Good speakers should be seen and not heard.

Remember you don't need a new system, there is plenty of decent stuff on the 2nd hand market, systems from most of the Japanese throughout the 80's/90's should be relatively cheap and good quality, I use an old Technics SA-X900L with accompanying CD player and record deck plus some similar vintage Sansui 2 way speakers from another cassette amplifier and find the sound quality to be excellent, not heavy bass as that's not what I want but has enough bass for me. Look at some of the bigger charity shops they may have something

Personally I would stay away from PA speakers at the lower end, esp. from cheapo manufacturers as the sound quality will be pretty poor.

Also be wary of some Hi-Fi forums, for some people unless you spend at least £500 on some BS power cable then you sound will be terrible. Personally I would ask on somewhere like the SoundOnSound forums where there are people who really know their stuff.

 

[najaB]

Given the level of investment, I would be tempted to wait until your local hifi store is open again, then go and try some out with your own media and maybe your own amp if going for passive speakers. There really is no substitute for detailed and considered auditioning if you're serious about your kit.

Even then, you'll be auditioning them in a different environment than where they'll actually be used. Still, better than nothing though.

 

[eMeS]

I can recommend a pair of Sony APM22ES. Bought mine many years ago, and my daughter said I had the best sounding system she'd heard. Why should I believe her? She played various types of harp... and got asked to play at festivals etc.

 

[mikeg]

Thanks everyone for the sound advice - no pun intended. Those Sony speakers seem very nice from the specifications. That said I've had mixed experience with second hand hi-fi.

On the subject of bass I agree that they should be seen and not heard, the issue is that many have a frequency response that starts well within the audible range, so can't produce heavy bass when it's actually there. For the record my floor standing speakers from the defunct richer sounds aural envelope brand probably overstate the bass, while my gales definitely are hopeless at bass reproduction generally. It's the ability to reproduce it accurately I'm looking for and the Sony ones definitely fit the bill. Im well aware this is quite an investment so advice about trying first is good.

Bizarrely many seem to take pride at being able to go into high frequencies only a bat could hear, perhaps tweeters are easier to make/design than woofers?

 

[pdq]

Have you thought about a subwoofer?

 

[najaB]

Bizarrely many seem to take pride at being able to go into high frequencies only a bat could hear, perhaps tweeters are easier to make/design than woofers?

Woofers have to move more air, it's very difficult to do so without introducing distortion. In railway terms it's the difference between a self-powered railcar and a locomotive that can haul 1600 tons without spinning its wheels.

 

[anamyd]

Bizarrely many seem to take pride at being able to go into high frequencies only a bat could hear, perhaps tweeters are easier to make/design than woofers?

As I understand it, the tweeters being able to reproduce frequencies higher than the upper limit of human hearing, is so that the frequencies they reproduce that are audible to us are well within their abilities and therefore not forced / strained.

 

[mikeg]

Hi, a bit of an update, after auditioning a few speakers, it was inconclusive. One beyond my price range was the KEF Q350, with which I was impressed. Anyway fast forward a couple of weeks and they dropped the price by £100. Not only that I was able to do what any self-respecting cheapskate does and buy online having tried instore with an open box discount for roughly (or maybe only slightly above) my original budget. Have to say I'm very impressed even though I haven't got them set up on proper speaker stands yet. The bass is tight, yet present, accurate and well defined as are all other aspects of the sound. Stereo is good too. I have to say a thankyou to @GRALISTAIR for recommending KEF, I'd probably not have thought about them had he not mentioned them. So I think these will be my speakers for years to come. My main NAD amp is definitely a good match too, had read about them being fussy to drive as the impedance can drop as low as 3.9 ohms (even says this on the back) despite being a nominal 8 ohms under certain conditions, I suspect the reason my NAD is a good match is they tend to have a high damping factor and do some clever things when driving low impedances (they call it 'Powerdrive', to what extent that's marketing guff for a standard technology I'll leave you to judge)...

Actually the main thing I've stuck with throughout in my setup despite trying rival (and vintage) products is that amplifier, had it since Christmas 2004 and it's flawless.... Well okay, the tone defeat crackles slightly now, probably nothing a little contact cleaner won't fix though but I leave it in anyway. The other thing is a relatively budget SACD player, which seems to be hated by many audiophiles for reasons I can't figure out why. Especially given its specs are pretty much identical to the later model I used to have which I sold after I picked up my current, older one from a charity shop in Cleethorpes (for a tenner) whilst on a rover ticket! I couldn't tell any difference between them at all, so sold the more respected later model on eBay. Only drawback is it uses twice as much electricity but that's not a big thing in the scheme of things given how little it gets used.

Anyway I'm waffling now, thanks for all the advice, you now have a happy hifi enthusiast!

 

[eMeS]

Around 50 years ago (when my hearing was still OK), with around 7 others, I was on an audio listening panel, and we had several sessions in the decent sized lounge of a then well known audio/HiFi engineer/journalist. Different stereo systems were played to us using the same snippets of music of different genres. We never knew what system we were listening to for starters, as a thin muslin screen was sited in front of the equipment, and we weren't told how we in the listening panel had been selected.
Some of us were audio journalists, and others were like myself, keen amateurs.
I remember one session when Angus McKenzie called out "stop" more or less immediately when a new system was put to the test. He was right - the wires to one of the speakers were out of phase. Being deaf, his hearing was much more sensitive than ours.
Interestingly, if I now hear samples of the test music on the car radio, I'm immediately taken back to those sessions.

Angus McKenzie MBE (1933–2005)

Angus McKenzie was a wholly remarkable individual. One of British hi-fi’s legends, he was the country's leading equipment reviewer for more than a decade, but that was only one of several careers and passions he pursued with repeated and conspicuous success, despite losing his sight completely...

www.stereophile.com

My own system uses Sony APM speakers bought after the sessions, but I haven't been able to hear properly for over 25 years.

 

[mikeg]

Interesting story. Yes I did like the spec of the Sony APM speakers, but the amount they go for secondhand, I'd rather buy new for that price. Let's just say I haven't had much luck with secondhand speakers, having bought some in what seemed and sounded like perfect condition, only for them to fail and me discover upon closer inspection severe foam rot about a year down the line.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Glad you like them.

 

[DelW]

I remember one session when Angus McKenzie called out "stop" more or less immediately when a new system was put to the test. He was right - the wires to one of the speakers were out of phase. Being deaf, his hearing was much more sensitive than ours.

Erm, I think you meant blind there

IIRC he was the author (or maybe one of the authors) of a series of A5 size guides called Hi-Fi Choice, each devoted to a different piece of equipment, and each reviewing a wide range of that type of product from most of the reputable manufacturers. They were pretty much regarded as the bibles of hi-fi at the time, at least among my friends.

 

[eMeS]

Erm, I think you meant blind there

Absolutely !! , and I hadn't been drinking...