Stevenage platform 5

Status
Not open for further replies.

adamedwards

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2016
Messages
365
Location
Hatfield, Herts
I'm aware that the lack of this platform is going to mean bus from Watton at Stone to Stevenage from 2018 due to pathing issues with the new Thameslink timetable.

My question is where will this platform be added in and how long will it be?.

8 cars and added to the south end Woking style? Or to the south on the west side with a bridge link like 0 at Doncaster?

Any info appreciated.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Hadders

Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
7,458
I believe the new bay is to be built on the leisure park side of the station. I'm not sure how they'll link it to the existing station, in theory they could extend the existing bridge although maybe they'll take the opportunity to expand put in additional stairs from all platforms as they are at capacity at peak times.

The new platform would need to be at least 6 car length, although 8 would be better to allow main line trains to terminate at times of disruption.

It really is quite disgraceful that services between Watton at Stone and Stevenage are proposed to be bustituted from 2018. I do hope that enough people objected to this in the consultation and that a way round this can be found.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
5,927
I cannot believe that a Class 313 or two cannot be retained for peak workings and extend the service to Letchworth Garden City.
 

GW43125

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2014
Messages
1,895
I cannot believe that a Class 313 or two cannot be retained for peak workings and extend the service to Letchworth Garden City.
It's the lack of paths that's the issue, not the stock. With TL running to Letchworth/Peterborough there simply isn't the capacity to have a unit sat on the down slow for half of every hour.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
5,927
It's the lack of paths that's the issue, not the stock. With TL running to Letchworth/Peterborough there simply isn't the capacity to have a unit sat on the down slow for half of every hour.
Then send it to Letchworth instead of terminating at Stevenage and blocking the Down slow.
 

adrock1976

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2013
Messages
2,852
Location
What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
If I have interpreted the opening post correctly, I do not think the section of line between Watton at Stone and Stevenage is closed at all.

It is most likely that it is not possible to have trains terminating in the northbound slow then head back south along the loop line as they do at present.

I think it is a "train" that will actually be a bus replacement shown in journey planners, similar to how (not really a good example I admit) there are still "trains" i.e. replacement buses that serve Norton Bridge, due to no access to the platform.
 

Hadders

Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
7,458
The reason for the bustitution is lack of paths, not lack of stock. There won't be the line capacity to run the loop service down to Letchworth once the additional off peak services start. Neither will there be the capacity to turn the services back in platform 4 (they currently sit there for c.10 minutes iirc).

This is why a 5th platform is needed so that the Hertford services can terminate at Stevenage without affecting the mainline.
 

GW43125

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2014
Messages
1,895
Surely GW43125 is referring to the down slow at Letchworth.
I was talking about Stevenage; only two lines at Letchworth and you can chuck the unit into the reversing siding to let something past. I don't think you'll be able to fit anything along Stevenage-Hitchin post Thameslink.
 

malc-c

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2017
Messages
574
The Stevenage Comet website has an article posted on 02/02/2018 suggesting that the government is putting pressure on Network Rail to have a 5th platform in place by 2020, with the bus service in place for just over two years, 18 months less than previously stated. However like most things the politics of using an existing contractor rather than putting it out o tender could scupper those plans.
http://www.thecomet.net/news/steven...ilt-in-2020-says-transport-minister-1-5380510

One question is that whilst the passenger service will be affected by these new Thameslink services, will this affect the freight that uses the hertford loop? I presume the line from Hertford would still be connected to the ECML rather than being a totally separate branch line ?
 

infobleep

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
9,735
Why couldn't the platform at Stevenage have been built sooner, so it coincided with the start of the new Thameslink timetable?
 

malc-c

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2017
Messages
574
To be honest I'm totally confused. I've been googling the redevelopment plans for Stevenage, which originally included budget for a new / refurbished station, and not getting anywhere. It seemed that due to the disruption of the main roads around the area one MP didn't back the plan and funding was removed. Then I keep finding articles on sites including Network rail, stating that the four platforms of Stevenage station are to be extended to accommodate the class 800's, and work was due to take place between March - June. But those articles were written in March 2017, and when it stated Monday March 13 as the start date, that has to be 2017 as the 13th in 2018 is a Tuesday.

So far I can't find any info as to whether or not the platform extension took place (I live in Stevenage and don't recall seeing any construction taking place last year.) - Maybe the work is scheduled for later this year, with the announcement that Virgin will be starting the services in December 2018 (and I' guessing that they would be calling at Stevenage in the same way 125s and 225 currently do so)
 

Skimble19

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2009
Messages
1,406
Location
East Coast Mainline
To be honest I'm totally confused. I've been googling the redevelopment plans for Stevenage, which originally included budget for a new / refurbished station, and not getting anywhere. It seemed that due to the disruption of the main roads around the area one MP didn't back the plan and funding was removed. Then I keep finding articles on sites including Network rail, stating that the four platforms of Stevenage station are to be extended to accommodate the class 800's, and work was due to take place between March - June. But those articles were written in March 2017, and when it stated Monday March 13 as the start date, that has to be 2017 as the 13th in 2018 is a Tuesday.

So far I can't find any info as to whether or not the platform extension took place (I live in Stevenage and don't recall seeing any construction taking place last year.) - Maybe the work is scheduled for later this year, with the announcement that Virgin will be starting the services in December 2018 (and I' guessing that they would be calling at Stevenage in the same way 125s and 225 currently do so)
The platforms were indeed extended for the 800s last year.
 

A0wen

Established Member
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
2,956
So how's P5 going to work?

If it's on the Leisure Centre side that's the west side of the station which means the Northbound lines. So what happens when the train heads south to return? Is the expectation it will run south on the NB slow, cross both fasts to get to the SB slow? Or are they looking at inserting a bi-di line from Langley Junction to the station?
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
5,624
Location
Somewhere
So how's P5 going to work?

If it's on the Leisure Centre side that's the west side of the station which means the Northbound lines. So what happens when the train heads south to return? Is the expectation it will run south on the NB slow, cross both fasts to get to the SB slow? Or are they looking at inserting a bi-di line from Langley Junction to the station?
Surely the point of the 5th platform is to accommodate the Hertford loop starters and terminators thus leaving the 4 mainlines clear for the faster traffic? The Hertford services will start and terminate in P5 with bidi access via the flyover...exactly as it is now but currently from P4.
 

malc-c

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2017
Messages
574
Surely the point of the 5th platform is to accommodate the Hertford loop starters and terminators thus leaving the 4 mainlines clear for the faster traffic? The Hertford services will start and terminate in P5 with bidi access via the flyover...exactly as it is now but from P4.
Would the build involve new track to the junction to effectively making it a true branch line, or is this really just a siding to get the Hertford trains off the NB slow line.
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
5,624
Location
Somewhere
I would imagine it will be effectively 5 tracks from where the Hertford branch currently meets the mainline all the way to the station, but also maintaining the link from the branch to the main. Its a bit out my area but thats logically what I could see happening.
 

malc-c

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2017
Messages
574
I'm curious as to how it works now. Looking at google maps I can't see any way a train from Hertford that terminates at Stevenage could get across the lines to south bound slow line so it can peel off at Langley junction, other than a cross-over on the Hertford loop just passed the B197 over-bridge. I presume that the North bound line between that cross over and Stevenage station is bi-directional running ?

If they did lay new track between Stevenage and langley junction it would involve reworking a dual carriage way bridge just south of the station to take five tracks. - but without five tracks it would be a bit pointless as you would otherwise still have a train movement in that short section on the NB slow lane between the junction and "siding" for platform 5
 

gazthomas

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2011
Messages
2,985
Location
St. Albans
I'm curious as to how it works now. Looking at google maps I can't see any way a train from Hertford that terminates at Stevenage could get across the lines to south bound slow line so it can peel off at Langley junction, other than a cross-over on the Hertford loop just passed the B197 over-bridge. I presume that the North bound line between that cross over and Stevenage station is bi-directional running ?

If they did lay new track between Stevenage and langley junction it would involve reworking a dual carriage way bridge just south of the station to take five tracks. - but without five tracks it would be a bit pointless as you would otherwise still have a train movement in that short section on the NB slow lane between the junction and "siding" for platform 5
Yes, is bi-directional, the ECML is not touched
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
5,624
Location
Somewhere
If they did lay new track between Stevenage and langley junction it would involve reworking a dual carriage way bridge just south of the station to take five tracks. - but without five tracks it would be a bit pointless as you would otherwise still have a train movement in that short section on the NB slow lane between the junction and "siding" for platform 5
Theres enough room for two more lines under the bridge on the north bound side so plenty of room for one.
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
4,539
Location
Torbay
There IS a new fleet size constraint on extending the Hertford-Stevenage service through to Letchworth. It would require two extra units to maintain a 30 minute interval service, partly due to the lengthy turnback procedure at Letchworth via the yard reception line. If there was stock available for this I don't think the supposed capacity constraint is 'simply' trains per hour but rather that the trains from Hertford just happen to be arrive at Langley Junction at a particularly busy part of the half hourly cycle on the down slow line, making slotting the paths in difficult without an unreasonably long wait at the junction, which could in turn also result in passengers from Hertford missing onward connections for destinations beyond Hitchin and Letchworth. It's possible the Hertford trains could be retimed to avoid this but that no doubt would require a very large scale rewrite across all services and TOCs all the way back to Moorgate, Kings cross and the Thameslink core! Keeping things simpler for future Thameslink service reliability is a particular concern and clearly with the new service density there's no possibility whatsoever of continuing the practice of reversing the Hertfords on the down slow in platform #4, with reoccupation allowance in the region of 10 minutes for that manoeuvre. As an ex Letchworth resident, I'm disappointed a direct service, at least off peak, to the County Town can't be maintained, but good reliable connections at Stevenage are an acceptable and sensible compromise. The obvious position for the new independent line is on the down side from the junction, and there is already a left handed crossover just Hertford side of the underpass on the branch to allow a London bound train to cross to the up line (used by the platform #4 turnbacks today). A simple six car independent terminal platform could be tucked in at the south end of the station between the down slow and the retail/entertainment car park, clear of the existing footbridge. One thing I don't know is whether Six Hills Way overbridge (the first bridge south of the station) would need reconstruction to accommodate the additional track, but Broadhall Way, the next major structure, should be OK as there are 5 tracks beneath it already.

Edit: GB confirms there's room for the additional track beneath Six Hills Way bridge
 

Ediswan

Member
Joined
15 Nov 2012
Messages
324
Location
Stevenage
One question is that whilst the passenger service will be affected by these new Thameslink services, will this affect the freight that uses the hertford loop? I presume the line from Hertford would still be connected to the ECML rather than being a totally separate branch line ?
I don't see any suggestion the Hertford Loop would be disconnected from the ECML. As I read the history, the Enfield Chase to Langely Junction section was built mainly as a diversion for the ECML. It is still well used as such. Diverted main line passenger services take priority over local services. (Sundays and emergencies.)
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
4,539
Location
Torbay
Here's a schematic of a possible track and signalling layout for the station including new platform #5.
stevenage.jpg
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
5,624
Location
Somewhere
I don't see any suggestion the Hertford Loop would be disconnected from the ECML. As I read the history, the Enfield Chase to Langely Junction section was built mainly as a diversion for the ECML. It is still well used as such. Diverted main line passenger services take priority over local services. (Sundays and emergencies.)
Also used for diverted freight when the Peterborough - Ipswich route is blocked.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top