Stevenage platform 5

[Muzer]

YorkshireBear said earlier that NR are making 'passive provision' for the bay's future extension alongside the Down Slow to form a loop line. with a new turnout in parallel with the slow to fast crossover. I expect that means building the new track as close as possible to the Down Slow through the station. There is also an opportunity to add one further crossover at Langley Jn for more flexibility.

[attachment snipped]

Out of interest, how are you making these diagrams?

 

[MarkyT]

Out of interest, how are you making these diagrams?

For these I used a signalling simulator called Block I was involved in developing about 15 years ago. The interlocking configures itself automatically as you draw the layout, and you can set routes manually straight away then add trains on predetermined paths and run them with automatic route setting. Here's a screen shot showing the tools.

 

[MarkyT]

I've played about with a screen capture from google maps and whilst the boundary fence would need to be moved, adding an additional track and platform wouldn't impact on the infrastructure of the car park. However the footbridge would need modifications, as presumably the existing over bridge / lifts and some form of ticket barrier will be extended - something like this (sorry its so crude but my photoshop skills are limited )

Nice. I suspect they may leave the footbridge with its exiting stair and ramp access for the time being rather than add extra lifts. The footbridge right across the railway is public with the gateline off to the north in the main building over the tracks. I expect an interchange to the Hertford line will involve exiting the main line gates then entering #5 via a dedicated new gate at ground level. When the mooted major station development gets underway there may be further improvements clearly.

 

[malc-c]

There's an open letter from three MP's in this weeks Stevenage Comet Newspaper.

Just proportioning blame for the delay rather than anything positive

 

[pdeaves]

There's an open letter from three MP's in this weeks Stevenage Comet Newspaper.
Just proportioning blame for the delay rather than anything positive

That seems remarkably balanced and fairly presented, showing that the MPs concerned have some understanding of the issues (e.g. signalling complexity).

 

[Fred26]

I don't think it's balanced. Is it really the fault of Stevenage First and the borough council? Or is it just a case of cost-cutting from Network Rail/DfT? How many other projects were either cut entirely or shifted from CP5 to CP6, and were they as a result of action from Stevenage First/Borough Council (of course not, so why is this project being labelled this way?).
All Stevenage First want to do is rebuild the station as part of a whole town regeneration, an admirable plan, if nothing else. The idea that this apparently confused things so much that the 5th platform was pushed back is, frankly, ludicrous.

 

[pdeaves]

I don't think it's balanced. Is it really the fault of Stevenage First and the borough council? Or is it just a case of cost-cutting from Network Rail/DfT? How many other projects were either cut entirely or shifted from CP5 to CP6, and were they as a result of action from Stevenage First/Borough Council (of course not, so why is this project being labelled this way?).
All Stevenage First want to do is rebuild the station as part of a whole town regeneration, an admirable plan, if nothing else. The idea that this apparently confused things so much that the 5th platform was pushed back is, frankly, ludicrous.

Sorry, by 'balanced' I was thinking more in terms of 'not shouty and emotive but rather a controlled frame of mind'.

 

[Fred26]

Sorry, by 'balanced' I was thinking more in terms of 'not shouty and emotive but rather a controlled frame of mind'.

Well it's that, certainly, on the surface, but it's anything but balanced below the surface.

 

[adamedwards]

Just been looking at Google Maps and this has inspired a "crayonista" idea: Build a temporary platform on the down Hertford Loop Line to the north west of Old Knebworth Road in Stevenage.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51°52'58.1"N+0°11'31.9"W/@51.8827927,-0.1933266,228m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d51.8827911!4d-0.1922015?hl=en

This is the point where the lines have split apart just before the junction with the East Coast Main line. My hypothetical platform would sit on the north side of the line to avoid any electrification masts being in the way, these being on the outside of the formation. There is already an access stairway for Network Rail. Of course this would need something a bit more sophisticated for the three years until platform 5 is ready at the least a waiting room and ticket machine. Potential advantages:

• Its on the section of line which is reversibly signaled, so a train could turn round here, using existing signals and crossover. (Siganlling experts please comment!)
  
• This Stevenage South station is in Stevenage (albeit not the town centre) so maintains a link for local people traveling from Stevenage to places along the Hertford Loop (indeed its within walking distance of Stevenage FC and GSK)
• The bus between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone becomes a much shorter shuttle within the town, which might require less vehicles.
• It tests the market for a station in this part of Stevenage.

This station would at least reduce some of the issues discussed in this thread, so the council would potentially see it as better than nothing. it's on Network Rail land. Thanks to the phasing of the Thameslink services, we have until December 2018 to sort this. Workington North got put up very rapidly. Could this be done as rapidly?

Now what haven't I thought of?

 

[OxtedL]

Do you mean the down or the up line?

The southbound line (nearest the Tesco) is not reversibly signalled.

 

[MarkyT]

Do you mean the down or the up line?

The southbound line (nearest the Tesco) is not reversibly signalled.

He must mean the down line. I think it's a good idea. I considered a location further north much nearer Langley junction on the down side with access onto Broadhall Way, but that doesn't fit so well with existing signalling layout and must be on a gradient at that point which is not usually allowed for platforms where trains reverse. The suggested position looks much flatter and Old Kebworth Lane provides a good access, as long as it is improved for pedestrians - the current narrow road has no pavements. Perhaps GSK could also open up a back gate for their employees to access the complex from the station.

I've added the new station to my diagram:

 

[D365]

Looks like a lot of single line running - will "Stevanage South" be capable of dual tracking?

 

[MarkyT]

Looks like a lot of single line running - will "Stevanage South" be capable of dual tracking?

It would be about 2700m from the Hertford branch crossover to the new bufferstop at Steveneage (Main). Probably workable for a 30 minute interval service with a reasonable turnback layover. With the access constructed between the two Old Knebworth Ln bridges, a second platform face for the up line could be added fairly easily but with the only regular passenger service on the Hertfords planned to terminate at Stevenage, the up platform at Stevenage South would not see any use.

 

[Ediswan]

Perhaps GSK could also open up a back gate for their employees to access the complex from the station.

The reason always given for not opening that gate was that it would lead to traffic problems in Old Knebworth Lane with vehicles stopping to drop off, and wating to pick up, possibly also trying to turn around. There were probably other reasons. The existing staff station shuttle bus route might get extended.

 

[adamedwards]

Do you mean the down or the up line?

The southbound line (nearest the Tesco) is not reversibly signalled.

OOPS! Yes.

 

[adamedwards]

It would be about 2700m from the Hertford branch crossover to the new bufferstop at Steveneage (Main). Probably workable for a 30 minute interval service with a reasonable turnback layover. With the access constructed between the two Old Knebworth Ln bridges, a second platform face for the up line could be added fairly easily but with the only regular passenger service on the Hertfords planned to terminate at Stevenage, the up platform at Stevenage South would not see any use.

I would have thought a true Stevenage South would be better located further down the Hertford Loop to serve that end of Stevenage, but that would need to be two platform, e.g at Watton Road (which then enables Knebworth residents to walk to it). But that's for future housing to pay for, my plan in this thread being a way to minimise the impact of the absence of platform 5.

 

[MarkyT]

The reason always given for not opening that gate was that it would lead to traffic problems in Old Knebworth Lane with vehicles stopping to drop off, and wating to pick up, possibly also trying to turn around. There were probably other reasons. The existing staff station shuttle bus route might get extended.

A pickup/drop off facility might be shared with the station

I would have thought a true Stevenage South would be better located further down the Hertford Loop to serve that end of Stevenage, but that would need to be two platform, e.g at Watton Road (which then enables Knebworth residents to walk to it). But that's for future housing to pay for, my plan in this thread being a way to minimise the impact of the absence of platform 5.

Maybe another permanent two platform station could be justified there as well! Especially if paid for by developers.

 

[higthomas]

So anyone know what's happening with this? Are Hertoford-Stevenage trains going to stop May 2019 then? Any idea of when they'll build the fifth platform.

 

[Silver Cobra]

So anyone know what's happening with this? Are Hertoford-Stevenage trains going to stop May 2019 then? Any idea of when they'll build the fifth platform.

There's been a lot of work taking place with clearing the vegetation between the railway line and the leisure park's car park over the last few weeks. So I'm guessing that the ground work for the new platform will begin sometime soon.

 

[Starmill]

So anyone know what's happening with this? Are Hertoford-Stevenage trains going to stop May 2019 then? Any idea of when they'll build the fifth platform.

Trains are indeed shown in the open data running between Moorgate and Watton-at-Stone from 19 May, with buses running between there and Stevenage.

 

[cle]

There's been a lot of work taking place with clearing the vegetation between the railway line and the leisure park's car park over the last few weeks. So I'm guessing that the ground work for the new platform will begin sometime soon.

Good to hear, it’s a ridiculous situation. How long do we think it might take?

Is there a final plan for frequencies and patterns out of Moorgate?

The plan for a loop line is interesting, but surely would be more times of disruption as this P5 would be in constant use? Or is there an identified overtaking move in mind, which could be timetabled, and unlock some capacity, somehow?

 

[malc-c]

I posed the question regarding the tree felling, thinking that it might be the start of the project for platform 5, but others seem to feel it's more related to a more regional pruning of the vegetation https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/nr-secretive-tree-felling.163759/page-4#post-3818425

 

[Ianno87]

Good to hear, it’s a ridiculous situation. How long do we think it might take?

Is there a final plan for frequencies and patterns out of Moorgate?

The plan for a loop line is interesting, but surely would be more times of disruption as this P5 would be in constant use? Or is there an identified overtaking move in mind, which could be timetabled, and unlock some capacity, somehow?

I think the loop idea might just be in the form of passive provision for now, buit to not preclude it happening later.

 

[Ediswan]

On the bright side. The annoying roundabout at the junction of the A602 and Broadwater Crescent has now been replaced by much more free-flowing traffic lights. So the replacement bus service between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone should be reasoanbly quick and predictable.

 

[gazthomas]

On the bright side. The annoying roundabout at the junction of the A602 and Broadwater Crescent has now been replaced by much more free-flowing traffic lights. So the replacement bus service between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone should be reasoanbly quick and predictable.

I never had a problem with that roundabout!

 

[Hadders]

On the bright side. The annoying roundabout at the junction of the A602 and Broadwater Crescent has now been replaced by much more free-flowing traffic lights. So the replacement bus service between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone should be reasoanbly quick and predictable.

Hmmm. I wouldn't describe a journey along the A602 from Stevenage towards Hertford anything like quick in the rush hour. The only predictable thing will be the delays.

 

[bramling]

Hmmm. I wouldn't describe a journey along the A602 from Stevenage towards Hertford anything like quick in the rush hour. The only predictable thing will be the delays.

Indeed - it’s an awful road. Notorious locally for accidents too. Hertford’s traffic congestion can be pretty dire at times too, although the bus will presumably avoid the worst of this.

I’d be royally pissed off if I were an established rail user of this section. Again, how many years did they have to plan for all this?

 

[Fred26]

Indeed - it’s an awful road. Notorious locally for accidents too. Hertford’s traffic congestion can be pretty dire at times too, although the bus will presumably avoid the worst of this.

I’d be royally pissed off if I were an established rail user of this section. Again, how many years did they have to plan for all this?

It was planned for and was due to be built before May 2018, but the DfT pulled the funding and it was shifted to the next Control Period.

 

[Ianno87]

It was planned for and was due to be built before May 2018, but the DfT pulled the funding and it was shifted to the next Control Period.

No, it was a deferral into CP6 in the Network Rail "Hendy Review" due to general cost increases if schemes in CP5.

But yes, delivery for May 2018 was the original plan, but the original CP5 funding didn't strectch to cover everything any more.

 

[Ediswan]

Hmmm. I wouldn't describe a journey along the A602 from Stevenage towards Hertford anything like quick in the rush hour. The only predictable thing will be the delays.

True, the removal of the bottleneck seems to have attracted additional traffic. But the delays on the section of the road in question are now predicatbly (I hesitate to say reliably) considerably less than they were. A typical 10-15 minute delay in the (early) evening rush hour between Watton-at-Stone and Stevenage has gone. I drive to work on that route (train is nowhere close to being practical).