Stock transfers you would like to see

[Eagle]

But on the other hand London Midland have in the past mooted early replacement of their 323s with Desiros.

LM have stated that two of the ten 350/3s on order are to go to the Cross-City line (possibly in anticipation of Bromsgrove electrification, if that actually happens).

 

[dave_wm]

I think that was taken as two of the 350/3s will replace 323s (say on the Walsall - Birmingham - Wolverhampton circuit), which will go onto the Cross City Line so it's able to run 3tph to both Bromsgrove and Redditch (with electrification down the Lickey and a new passing loop at Alvechurch). No trains will be made spare by this move, as far as I know.

 

[Eagle]

Not what London Midland are saying (and my mistake, it's three 350s to the Cross-City).

 

[Pumbaa]

Not what London Midland are saying (and my mistake, it's three 350s to the Cross-City).

Not directly, but that is the plan. Free up the 323s on Brum locals to cascade them on XCity.

 

[172212]

Not directly, but that is the plan. Free up the 323s on Brum locals to cascade them on XCity.

I thought the 350/3 units were going to be used mainly on the London Euston lines, and to increase capacity at peak times on the crosscity line.

 

[dave_wm]

I thought the 350/3 units were going to be used mainly on the London Euston lines, and to increase capacity at peak times on the crosscity line.

As far as I know, they won't be using any 350/3s on the Cross City Line in ordinary service - I don't imagine they'll be comptible with 323s, and they'd prefer to keep the whole service run by the same type of train, so they can 6-car and whatever when they need to.

I can't actually remember whether the 350/3s are to be suburban (2+3, like the 350/2s) or interurban (2+2, like the 350/1s) design - whatever happens its likely that certain services on the Walsall - Birmingham - Wolverhampton and/or the unit that does Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International will become a 350.

 

[SprinterMan]

As far as I know, they won't be using any 350/3s on the Cross City Line in ordinary service - I don't imagine they'll be comptible with 323s, and they'd prefer to keep the whole service run by the same type of train, so they can 6-car and whatever when they need to.

I can't actually remember whether the 350/3s are to be suburban (2+3, like the 350/2s) or interurban (2+2, like the 350/1s) design - whatever happens its likely that certain services on the Walsall - Birmingham - Wolverhampton and/or the unit that does Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International will become a 350.

I think they are 2+2 like a 350/1

Adam

 

[anthony263]

From the latest issue of Modern Railways it seems both the 350/3's & 350/4's will have 2+2 seating in standard although the Transpenine express 350/4's will have 2 +1 seating in first class

 

[dave_wm]

I think they are 2+2 like a 350/1

Adam

In which case they might end up going on ex-London services, with 350/2s cascaded onto the West Midlands local routes. Then again, the capacity might be more required in London - I believe a 4-car 350/1 only has 184 or so seats, compared to 284 in a 3-car 323.

Oh, and thanks for confirming by the way

 

[Schnellzug]

And what would you replace them with without downgrading the service for the non enthusiast passenger....

A derivative of the ICE-T, which has larger windows and which also, as an added bonus, sound interesting.

 

[172212]

As far as I know, they won't be using any 350/3s on the Cross City Line in ordinary service - I don't imagine they'll be comptible with 323s, and they'd prefer to keep the whole service run by the same type of train, so they can 6-car and whatever when they need to.

I can't actually remember whether the 350/3s are to be suburban (2+3, like the 350/2s) or interurban (2+2, like the 350/1s) design - whatever happens its likely that certain services on the Walsall - Birmingham - Wolverhampton and/or the unit that does Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International will become a 350.

3 units will be used to improve capacity on the Cross City line in Birmingham.
http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2012/order-for-new-desiro-trains/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In which case they might end up going on ex-London services, with 350/2s cascaded onto the West Midlands local routes. Then again, the capacity might be more required in London - I believe a 4-car 350/1 only has 184 or so seats, compared to 284 in a 3-car 323.

Oh, and thanks for confirming by the way

If anything, wouldn't the 350/1s be used on local services
I thought they were dual voltage, meaning they weren't the best for long distance services.

 

[dave_wm]

3 units will be used to improve capacity on the Cross City line in Birmingham.
http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2012/order-for-new-desiro-trains/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


If anything, wouldn't the 350/1s be used on local services
I thought they were dual voltage, meaning they weren't the best for long distance services.

I think it is believed that the three new 350/3s will replace 323s which will be cascaded onto the Cross City - see Pumbaa's post further up the thread.

The 350/1s should be used on long-distance services wherever possible, in preference to 350/2s - they have a low-density 2+2 seating layout with tables. The dual-voltage-ness shouldn't make any difference at all, it just means they can also be used on the Southern Region as well.

 

[Eagle]

I thought they were dual voltage, meaning they weren't the best for long distance services.

What does being dual-voltage have to do with suitability for long-distance services? Eurostars are dual-voltage.

 

[172212]

What does being dual-voltage have to do with suitability for long-distance services? Eurostars are dual-voltage.

Like I said. I thought

 

[Eagle]

Like I said. I thought

You said you thought 350/1s were dual-voltage. And they are.

 

[172212]

You said you thought 350/1s were dual-voltage. And they are.

I thought they weren't suitable for long distance services...

 

[anthony263]

I have found the class 350/1's to be generally ok for long distance services having done West Croydon - Milton Keynes on one when some were hired to Southern. Its the class 350/2's I cant stand due to their 3+2 seating

 

[pemma]

I have found the class 350/1's to be generally ok for long distance services having done West Croydon - Milton Keynes on one when some were hired to Southern.

So you did a 60 mile journey and say that they are suitable for long distances. Manchester Airport to Edinburgh will be a future class 350 route and is over 200 miles and there isn't a faster alternative available using better rolling stock, as is the case with Crewe to Euston.

 

[dave_wm]

The 350/2s aren't too bad provided they're kept on the London commuter services - the routes the 321s used to operate. Equally, they'd be fine on services like Walsall - Birmingham - Wolverhampton, but the 350/1s are far more suitable for London - Crewe, London - Birmingham and Birmingham - Liverpool. Unfortunately, there aren't quite enough 350/1s to go around, so at the moment we still see some 350/2s on these services. Hopefully with the delivery of 350/3s, however, these occurences will lessen; London - Crewe services will have to become 350/1 or 350/3 only, as I don't think the 350/2s are being modified for 110mph running (that may have changed though).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So you did a 60 mile journey and say that they are suitable for long distances. Manchester Airport to Edinburgh will be a future class 350 route and is over 200 miles and there isn't a faster alternative available using better rolling stock, as is the case with Crewe to Euston.

I find the 350/1s better than some of the alternatives - they're no worse than the 185s and I find them more comfortable to travel on than Voyagers (which I think ran that route pre-2007, albeit from Piccadilly only).

 

[Aictos]

I have found the class 350/1's to be generally ok for long distance services having done West Croydon - Milton Keynes on one when some were hired to Southern. Its the class 350's I cant stand due to their 3+2 seating

That made no sense at all!

Unless of course you were referring to the 350/2s with their 3+2 seating?

 

[anthony263]

Sorry the last sentence should have said 350/2's

 

[OxtedL]

I thought they weren't suitable for long distance services...

But you said you thought that they weren't suitable becuase they were dual voltage.

I'm confused as to what you're defending, you were clearly making an unjustified and slightly irrational comment.

 

[All Line Rover]

But you said you thought that they weren't suitable becuase they were dual voltage.

I'm confused as to what you're defending, you were clearly making an unjustified and slightly irrational comment.

Where did he say that? It's not a big issue anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

its about time some more 395's were bought from hitachi...they could make a big dent in the paths on WCML

What fascination does everyone have with the 395's? Yes, they are excellent trains, but they are commuter trains. They make for a lovely commute (albeit an overpriced one), but to say that they could serve as intercity trains is a big stretch of the imagination. The design of them is more like Desiros than Pendolinos - they are simply not suited to intercity journeys.

 

[tbtc]

What fascination does everyone have with the 395's? Yes, they are excellent trains, but they are commuter trains. They make for a lovely commute (albeit an overpriced one), but to say that they could serve as intercity trains is a big stretch of the imagination. The design of them is more like Desiros than Pendolinos - they are simply not suited to intercity journeys.

Two things:

The rarity of them (if there were as many in daily service as there were Pendolini then people would be bored of them, but the 395s have a "novelty" factor)

The fact that they are "fast" stock which didn't replace "beloved" stock - the criticism of a lot of other "fast" stock over the years (Voyagers and Pendolini, but I'm old enough to remember complaints about the 225 sets when they were introduced a couple of decades ago too), so people aren't comparing 395s to their favourite trains that were replaced by them.

 

[Class86Fan]

I have found the class 350/1's to be generally ok for long distance services having done West Croydon - Milton Keynes on one when some were hired to Southern. Its the class 350/2's I cant stand due to their 3+2 seating

No they are not suitable at all! Even the first class is a bit cramped on the 350/1's. And since when did Southern hire some??

 

[6Gman]

It would be interesting to see a 12 car class 395 set in trials on an EBW diagram. The power to weight and accelerations are such that I've got a gut feeling that the Pendolino might well have difficulty keeping the Javelins tailights in sight despite the 15 mph loss of top speed.

Buckets in the vestibules to compensate for the lack of toilets?

 

[Eagle]

And since when did Southern hire some??

They hired a few for their WLL services before they got all their 377s. This was a few years back, possibly before LM's hourly Trent Valley service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It would be interesting to see a 12 car class 395 set in trials on an EBW diagram. The power to weight and accelerations are such that I've got a gut feeling that the Pendolino might well have difficulty keeping the Javelins tailights in sight despite the 15 mph loss of top speed.

There's not much accelerating and decelerating on a service that only makes three stops in 100 miles. It's almost all cruising at constant speed. The Pendo would easily win.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I haven't read the whole topic, so this may already have been said, but I'd like to see the Waterloo - Exeter route electrified and taken over by a fleet of dual-voltage EMUs similar to 5-WES or maybe class 444s (haven't used either recently enough to say which I prefer). I'd then put the original class 159s (the ones with 400hp engines) on the Cambrian line. That would cascade ATW's 2-car 158s to operate a joint ATW/FirstGW 4-car Cardiff - Portsmouth service. Using portion working, 2-cars would continue to Carmarthen/Fishguard/Milford Haven via the Swansea District Line).

On a slightly more realistic note, electrify both routes from Southampton to Romesy (maybe even Romesy - Salisbury too) to allow SWT to cascade some or all of their 2-car 158s to other operators. EMU stock for those services would be 450s, released by ordering more 444/5-WES type trains for Waterloo - Weymouth/Portsmouth etc.

 

[David10]

They hired a few for their WLL services before they got all their 377s. This was a few years back, possibly before LM's hourly Trent Valley service.

Was in early 2009 after Trent Valley services started when 350/2s were being delivered. LM were able to spare some 350/1s by holding on to some 321s that were due to go to NXEA.

 

[SprinterMan]

Was in early 2009 after Trent Valley services started when 350/2s were being delivered. LM were able to spare some 350/1s by holding on to some 321s that were due to go to NXEA.

Ah yes, then NXEA put the 321s into service without cleaning or repainting them or removing the fleas that had taken up residence in the seats while the units were stored......

Adam