Carmont (near Stonehaven) derailment - 12 August 2020

[southern442]

BBC News still saying one loco and four carriages and still saying three carriages went down the embankment which we know to be false, also have said that it was an Aberdeen to stonehaven service which was also untrue although not that the last bit matters much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While I agree with what you are saying, because of the responsibility a train driver has etc for people lives, they are hopefully paid appropriately. Do not want to drift off topic but it can be a traumatic job as this incident shows.

Indeed, it's a highly responsible job and is and should remain paid accordingly, but it's totally false to suggest it's a dangerous job in 2020, because, the occasional terrible incident like this aside, it's really not.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Indeed, it's a highly responsible job and is and should remain paid accordingly, but it's totally false to suggest it's a dangerous job in 2020, because, the occasional terrible incident like this aside, it's really not.

Completely agree.

 

[notverydeep]

I thought the Scottish FM and MP who were just interviewed on BBC News were appropriate and restrained in their comments, although plenty of reference to the severe weather which is techically speculative but understandable under the circumstances.

The 'immediate cause' of any rail accident is usually apparent to the railway authorities within a short time of arrival on site at an accident and indeed can often be deduced from a clear picture of the site - something which becomes evident if you read the back catelogue of investigation reports. The deeper root causes that led to the immediate cause and the factors that determine the outcome and its severity are the elements that take much more considered investigation to enable the correct lessons to be learned and progress made on preventing reoccurance. I may be wrong, but that people further up the chain of authority in this case, who will have been briefed by those on duty on the ground are citing the weather does indicate that this is nolonger considered speculative by those investigating...

 

[backontrack]

If it's correct that there were only six passengers and/or reduced crew presence...that is fairly fortunate, although that says nothing of those who have been severely injured, or worse.

Would the 06:38 normally be a busy train?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Indeed, it's a highly responsible job and is and should remain paid accordingly, but it's totally false to suggest it's a dangerous job in 2020, because, the occasional terrible incident like this aside, it's really not.

Agreed.

 

[RealTrains07]

Such a terrible incident. My thoughts are with the passengers, train crew as well as the families of those involved at Stonehaven

 

[Ianno87]

Indeed, it's a highly responsible job and is and should remain paid accordingly, but it's totally false to suggest it's a dangerous job in 2020, because, the occasional terrible incident like this aside, it's really not.

It does show, regardless of your profession, how safety and your training can never be taken for granted. (E.G. a firefighter is trained to fight fires whilst not placing unreasonable risk to their own or others' safety).

 

[LOL The Irony]

The scrolling headlines on Sky News say the PA are reporting the driver has died. A very sad incident.

 

[ainsworth74]

If we can leave the politics alone for the time being please I don't think that it's directly relevant to this incident as it stands beyond it perhaps being worth noting any statements that come from relevant people. Certainly I see no reason to start on a "person/organisation ABC is point scoring" "no they're not!" discussion thank you.

I think we're also starting to get a bit off-topic regarding comparing train driving to firefighting or other careers. I would ask that we leave that one there too please.

Finally, another reminder, think about what you're posting and the impact it may have before you make it. Thank you to everyone involved so far for keeping things civil and appropriate but I worry that we may tip over the edge again if people aren't careful. This incident isn't even over yet. Think before you post.

 

[Malcmal]

Reported that Andrew Haines (NR MD) is flying back from holiday in Italy to the site.

I sincerely hope NOT!!! Direct Covid-19 risk to the emergency crews if he turns up on site without quarantine.

Edit: so actually I am wrong and Italy isn't on the quarantine list. Apologies for not having my facts straight and as someone said Aberdeen is currently in lockdown. How about that for irony??!

 

[Ianno87]

I sincerely hope NOT!!! Direct Covid-19 risk to the emergency crews if he turns up on site without quarantine.

Alternative tabloid headline: "Major incident in Scotland while big boss enjoys beach holiday"

Given the area is open country, I doubt the transmission risk is major anyway...

 

[kristiang85]

I sincerely hope NOT!!! Direct Covid-19 risk to the emergency crews if he turns up on site without quarantine.

Edit: so actually I am wrong and Italy isn't on the quarantine list. Apologies for not having my facts straight and as someone said Aberdeen is currently in lockdown. How about that for irony??!

To be honest, as Italy isn't on the COVID quarantine list, and indeed Aberdeen is in lockdown right now, in fact he's probably safer coming from there than if he'd happened to be in holiday in Aberdeen. And no doubt he will be observing the site and not actually being amongst all the workers anyway.

If he had stayed in Italy, no doubt people would jump on him too.

 

[Joba]

What an awful tragedy, perhaps the crumb of comfort might be the reduced number of passengers due to Covid.

I hope NR can put measures in place to reduce the possibility of this happening again.

 

[A Challenge]

To be honest, as Italy isn't on the COVID quarantine list, and indeed Aberdeen is in lockdown right now, in fact he's probably safer coming from there than if he'd happened to be in holiday in Aberdeen. And no doubt he will be observing the site and not actually being amongst all the workers anyway.

If he had stayed in Italy, no doubt people would jump on him too.

Stonehaven is not within the Aberdeen quarantine zone is it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stonehaven is not within the Aberdeen quarantine zone is it?

I don't believe it is, no, but it wouldn't make any difference if it was, you are allowed to do your job as necessary (provided it isn't in one of the types of establishment which have been closed), and that has been the case throughout in the UK.

 

[hozza94]

Stonehaven is not within the Aberdeen quarantine zone is it?

Only Aberdeen City Council areas are in lockdown

 

[swissrailpassion]

Horrific accident. Thoughts and sympathies to all involved. It is worth bearing in mind that location was observed by the train on the way down and in the time taken to return towards Aberdeen something has changed. It doesn't look like a low speed derailment at all and to see the wreckage is extremely upsetting. We don't know how or exactly where this happened, just where the derailed train ended up.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Can anyone provide details about the recent history of the power cars and Mk3 coaches in set HA22? When did they transfer to Scotrail, what were their previous history, etc.

 

[kristiang85]

Stonehaven is not within the Aberdeen quarantine zone is it?

No it isn't (as far as I know); I was just making a point that I doubt the poster would have made an issue of it if he happened to be going in relatively locally from Aberdeen, when technically it would be a riskier decision.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Not sure I can use the words I want to here tbh (two words one beginning with F and the other with H).
As others have said, when I first read there had been a derailment I kind of assumed it was something like Eastleigh - potentially serious but nothing to the scale that has since come to light.
Thoughts to those involved and the families etc.

Indeed, it's a highly responsible job and is and should remain paid accordingly, but it's totally false to suggest it's a dangerous job in 2020, because, the occasional terrible incident like this aside, it's really not.

Incidents like this do put it right front centre why the job isn't as cushy as some of the tabloids love to make out though.

 

[py_megapixel]

What a terrible thing to happen. Especially during what is, in general, a terrible time.
All I can say is, thank god incidents like this are relatively rare. Greatest sympathy for all those affected.

 

[507 001]

Window level up to solebar, judging by the position of the carriage number. It's inverted

Yeah I was looking again at the photo a bit later and realised. Horrendous.

 

[py_megapixel]

Can anyone provide details about the recent history of the power cars and Mk3 coaches in set HA22? When did they transfer to Scotrail, what were their previous history, etc.

I'm not sure, but I don't believe this incident is currently being attributed to a problem with set HA22.

What the news outlets are saying suggests that the train hit an unexpected landslip and was thrown off the line. Maybe I'm interpereting it wrong though.

 

[Oscar46016]

My sincere condolences to all those current involved or will be involved in the future.

 

[Chris B]

Those recent images look to show a temporary access road being used to access the site.

Yep - and a portaloo by the entrance.

Could this be the site of a work area commandeered by the Emergency Services. Unlikely to be able to get a rolling road installed there very quickly? Also, check out the photo on this thread elsewhere of the derailed power car - in the background of that is a small digger - now that hasn't appeared today. There's work going on in that area - not necessarily rail-related - it could be timber.

If you enlarge the top photo of 3 in post #103 on page 4, that shows a part of a coach hanging down into a stream/river. There's plenty of detail in those photos if you look closely.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I'm not sure, but I don't believe this incident is currently being attributed to a problem with set HA22.

What the news outlets are saying suggests that the train hit an unexpected landslip and was thrown off the line. Maybe I'm interpereting it wrong though.

Yes, I wasn’t suggesting any causality in any way. Just wondered where the set had come from etc. Are they all ex-Western Region vehicles?

 

[backontrack]

Window level up to solebar, judging by the position of the carriage number. It's inverted

I'm inclined to use @WelshBluebird's two words now...that's horrific...

 

[Oscar46016]

Can anyone provide details about the recent history of the power cars and Mk3 coaches in set HA22? When did they transfer to Scotrail, what were their previous history, etc.

I believe the set worked Aberdeen - Glasgow and back on Monday, and on Saturday worked Glasgow - Inverness - Aberdeen

 

[ChrisMcBride]

I think they are ex Western Region vehicles