Carmont (near Stonehaven) derailment - 12 August 2020

[yorkie]

If that is directed at me, then i am sorry. I was just trying to find something positive to say about this.

No need to apologise; it wasn't aimed at a specific post really, and certainly not yours; what you posted was entirely sensible an reasonable in my view.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Sky News now saying 3 dead and 1 missing.

 

[Howardh]

Thoughts to everyone involved, looking at the photographs one can see how appalling it was.

 

[yorkie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53751774

A rail industry source has confirmed that the 0638 Aberdeen to Glasgow service was definitely heading south when it derailed.

It is thought that the train initially came across a landslip and the driver stopped and contacted control to ask permission to turn around and head backwards to swap tracks to then continue on the path towards Glasgow.

It’s believed the driver reversed the train to a set of points and switched to a different set of tracks, which was clear.

The train then apparently continued on its route towards Glasgow before it possibly hit another landslide and derailed.

This does explain why the train was so late, and the confusion about the direction of the train

 

[Robertj21a]

Yep - and a portaloo by the entrance.

Could this be the site of a work area commandeered by the Emergency Services. Unlikely to be able to get a rolling road installed there very quickly? Also, check out the photo on this thread elsewhere of the derailed power car - in the background of that is a small digger - now that hasn't appeared today. There's work going on in that area - not necessarily rail-related - it could be timber.

If you enlarge the top photo of 3 in post #103 on page 4, that shows a part of a coach hanging down into a stream/river. There's plenty of detail in those photos if you look closely.

The TV News earlier said that Network Rail staff were already nearby, before the derailment, so were immediately available to help.

 

[bspahh]

NR do have drones but it depends if they have people in the area trained up on it. There was a small push for people to train but not sure if they would've before COVID kicked in.

Network Rail Air Ops posted
https://twitter.com/nrairops/status/1289493761802690560 on August 1st. It says:

Last week and this week six of our experienced Drone Operators have been trained to operate fixed wing drones by ⁦
@UAV8Ltd
⁩ this will allow us to expand our ability soon.

 

[iainp]

As far as I can tell, it's circa 20 minutes from Aberdeen to Stonehaven.....why was it not until 09:40 that the incident occurred? Does anyone know what was happening during that time?

 

[Andy Pacer]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53751774

This does explain why the train was so late, and the confusion about the direction of the train

So presumably it had switched to the opposite direction track to avoid the obstruction.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Sky News now saying 3 dead and 1 missing.

I don't know where they are getting their information from...

 

[Andy Pacer]

As far as I can tell, it's circa 20 minutes from Aberdeen to Stonehaven.....why was it not until 09:40 that the incident occurred? Does anyone know what was happening during that time?

It may have had to wait and decide what action to take following coming across the first obstruction, then eventually decide to reverse etc. In my experience these things can take a long time to sort out!

 

[Ergomy]

Network Rail Air Ops posted
https://twitter.com/nrairops/status/1289493761802690560 on August 1st. It says:

Thats 6 people, doesn't say where they are in the country...

 

[2HAP]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehaven_derailment?wprov=sfti1

This is ridiculous. We’re still all speculating at the moment and there is already a enthusiast-worded article full of it presented as fact on Wikipedia.

Thoughts are with everyone involved.

As the disclaimer says, this is breaking news and information may be unreliable. Over time, as more info becomes available the article becomes more reliable. Wikipedia works on what is verifiable at the time, not the truth, nor speculation. If there is something claimed that is not is the souce it is referenced to, then that is an issue.

Anyone can contribute to that article (and others). You don't even need to register an account.

 

[KashmireHawker]

I don't know where they are getting their information from...

That info is coming from the Press Association.

 

[The_Train]

As far as I can tell, it's circa 20 minutes from Aberdeen to Stonehaven.....why was it not until 09:40 that the incident occurred? Does anyone know what was happening during that time?

Do we know that the incident occurred at this time? As far as I can tell the emergency services were alerted by a member of the public (according to the news on BBC 5 Live anyway) who had noticed the smoke billowing upwards. I don't know the area so don't know if people live in the immediate area but if they don't, it is not unfeasible that the accident occurred well before this time

 

[DB]

Looking at the vents at cantrail level is the photo of the power car from the front. I.e. cab ripped off?

Yes, it is - it's not clear though whether the cab has been ripped off in the accident or destroyed by fire (HST cabs are made of GRP).

 

[KashmireHawker]

I am immensely saddened by the loss of life and injury caused, within what is a tragic accident.

Full thoughts are with the families of the victims and of all who boarded and knowing the way in which speculation flies around these days, this is where my only focus goes; on a dark moment for our rail industry.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53751774

This does explain why the train was so late, and the confusion about the direction of the train

I'm confused!

I thought this terrible accident had happened north of the crossover, and that it was the north end power car which was down the embankment and had been on fire, and that the south end one - 43030 - was still on the track?

Condolences to all involved in this catastrophic accident.

 

[John Bishop]

I'm confused!

I thought this terrible accident had happened north of the crossover, and that it was the north end power car which was down the embankment and had been on fire, and that the south end one - 43030 - was still on the track?

Condolences to all involved in this catastrophic accident.

Your correct.

 

[ChrisMcBride]

This is indeed a very sad day for the industry as a whole

 

[nag67]

I'm confused!

I thought this terrible accident had happened north of the crossover, and that it was the north end power car which was down the embankment and had been on fire, and that the south end one - 43030 - was still on the track?

Condolences to all involved in this catastrophic accident.

BBC report now backing slightly away from the previous 'confirms' travelling south suggestion.

 

[Lockwood]

I saw this on a news video. Seeing the headline, I was also expecting more of an Eastleigh type situation.

Having read this thread (or the posts that have not been removed) and seeing the images in there, I would also be inclined to use those words beginning F and H.

Thoughts to the people injured, families of the departed, colleagues of the involved parties, and the emergency services on scene.


The organisation of the emergency response looks quite tidy - if there's something that has been learned from previous accidents, that has been improvements to organisation and coordination.


The one "good" thing is that this happened during a time where fewer people are travelling. This is still a horrific incident, but it would have been so much worse with a crush loaded service, both in terms of casualty figures, but also the rescue effort

 

[Royston Vasey]

Yes, it is - it's not clear though whether the cab has been ripped off in the accident or destroyed by fire (HST cabs are made of GRP).

There's no visible fire damage at that end, the bulkhead paint is still clean.

 

[JKF]

Do we know that the incident occurred at this time? As far as I can tell the emergency services were alerted by a member of the public (according to the news on BBC 5 Live anyway) who had noticed the smoke billowing upwards. I don't know the area so don't know if people live in the immediate area but if they don't, it is not unfeasible that the accident occurred well before this time

with so few people on board, and with a number likely incapacitated, plus possibly poor mobile reception, then there could have been nobody on the train with the ability to raise the alarm. Feel cold just thinking about it.

 

[skawtish]

with so few people on board, and with a number likely incapacitated, plus possibly poor mobile reception, then there could have been nobody on the train with the ability to raise the alarm. Feel cold just thinking about it.

i read that a member of the train crew raised the alarm from a signal box. I also read that there was a network rail team working nearby.

 

[BJames]

Just noticed this and I want to add my condolences and best wishes to all involved in the incident. The picture of those carriages in post #102 sent shivers through me.

 

[de525ma]

Mobile coverage in that area is very poor - know it well. Shocking scenes.

 

[Huntergreed]

A truly dreadful accident and I sent my utmost condolences to all involved and their families. I can’t even fathom how terrible it must have been to be involved in that accident and I sincerely hope those injured make a swift and sustainable recovery.

 

[03_179]

I have no words.

My thoughts and prayers with our Railway Family members and passengers and their families.

 

[AlbertBeale]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53751774

This does explain why the train was so late, and the confusion about the direction of the train

I'm confused by this. If, having found a blockage southbound, the train reversed, and crossed over that 15mph crossing, it would then have encountered a bridge over a stream within a mile - and some of the pictures suggest one end of the train by the bridge. But if it had then reversed again, and carried on south down the northbound line (as has now been suggested from that BBC report), then it wouldn't have encountered another bridge over a waterway (as far as I can see from maps of the area) for some distance. And if that was where it happened, (a) the location would likely have been referred to as something other than Carnmont, and (b) the bridge would have been very close to the A90 main road, and not in such an isolated woody area; and (c) the power car numbers explained above are such that it would surely mean that it - if heading south again - it was the rear power car that went down an embankment, not the front one (which seems less likely).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Not sure I can use the words I want to here tbh (two words one beginning with F and the other with H).
As others have said, when I first read there had been a derailment I kind of assumed it was something like Eastleigh - potentially serious but nothing to the scale that has since come to light.
Thoughts to those involved and the families etc.



Incidents like this do put it right front centre why the job isn't as cushy as some of the tabloids love to make out though.

Indeed so.