Stopped by inspector

[dylerturden]

Basically, ive been really worried about what happened yesterday.
Firstly, i realise my mistake, so no berating please.
I foolishly decided not to buy and ticket as by the time i had reached the station i realised i had no money with me and it was a 15 minute walk back to my house. I was caught by an inspector trying to go through the barriers on someones elses ticket at Chelmsford and then he found a child ticket on me from Chelsmford to Ingatestone from a previous date when i had told him my journey starts at Harold Wood, i said i was travelling to Ingatestone on the day but he didnt believe me.

He wrote down everything i said then proceeded cautioned me, read me my rights and said i would recieve a magistrate summons.
Am i going to recieve a criminal conviction? i just turned 18 and have been travelling the same route for 7 years without even a penalty fare notice for an invalid ticket or not producing one. This was a one-off mistake i made which i totally regret and am worried it may affect my employment chances in the future.

 

[Ferret]

Well, I'm afraid I have no sympathy! The 15 minute walk back to your house to get some money was the correct option as I'm sure you now realise. At the end of the day, trying to go through a barrier on somebody else's ticket is a form of fraud - and you got caught. Time to take your punishment.

 

[dylerturden]

yeah i know and i really regret it. I dont mind paying any fines for it but a criminal conviction would be really awful and i just hope that they can sympathise with me due to my clean record and the fact that i just turned 18 a couple of weeks ago.

 

[pemma]

i just turned 18 and have been travelling the same route for 7 years without even a penalty fare notice for an invalid ticket or not producing one.

If you're 18 then the law treats you differently as you're considered an adult, rather than a child who has to pay adult bus and train fares.

 

[Ferret]

Well, sorry I can't offer much in the way of words of comfort! OK, fair enough you regret it now but the fact is you screwed up the other day - it may be out of character but that's life. I guess if you do end up with a conviction, your punishment would be a fine, and then after a period of time, the conviction will be spent and no longer appear on your record.

 

[Greenback]

Not only did you try and get away without paying on this occasion, you have also previously travelled on a child ticket, which you were not entitled to do if you were over fifteen.

I don't know what will happen at the court, if you are summonsed, but I don;t think you deserve much sympathy!

 

[royaloak]

Basically, ive been really worried about what happened yesterday.
Firstly, i realise my mistake, so no berating please.
I foolishly decided not to buy and ticket as by the time i had reached the station i realised i had no money with me and it was a 15 minute walk back to my house. I was caught by an inspector trying to go through the barriers on someones elses ticket at Chelmsford and then he found a child ticket on me from Chelsmford to Ingatestone from a previous date when i had told him my journey starts at Harold Wood, i said i was travelling to Ingatestone on the day but he didnt believe me.

He wrote down everything i said then proceeded cautioned me, read me my rights and said i would recieve a magistrate summons.
Am i going to recieve a criminal conviction? i just turned 18 and have been travelling the same route for 7 years without even a penalty fare notice for an invalid ticket or not producing one. This was a one-off mistake i made which i totally regret and am worried it may affect my employment chances in the future.

A one off mistake but you travel on child tickets, if you cant do the time dont do the crime, now the reality of what you have done will come home to roost!
As for affecting you in the future, would you employ a convicted fraudster if you were an employer?

 

[David]

What I think will happen is that you will get a letter from the TOC "offering" to drop the prosecution is you pay a fine (probably 2 or 3 times the price of the ticket). If that happens, pay up without question, as you avoid a conviction so you don't have to declare anything.

If you get caught again in the next few years however, expect to be taken straight to court.

 

[yorkie]

Seek legal advice, but you have to prove innocence or you are considered guilty when it comes to the railway. It would stay on your record. an enhanced check will always show it. Only a very good lawyer could get you out of a conviction I think.

 

[mumrar]

Whilst I hope you are remorseful, what would have been your actions if you didn't get caught? A remorseful person would have purchased a ticket without travelling at a later stage so as to put the money you owe back in. There are two tiers to your offence. One, not wanting to walk home for money. Two, and more seriously, trying to use another ticket to avoid detection. At the end of the day it's far better to have not intentionally comitted fraud, than to show remorse for doing so.

 

[dylerturden]

Seek legal advice, but you have to prove innocence or you are considered guilty when it comes to the railway. It would stay on your record. an enhanced check will always show it. Only a very good lawyer could get you out of a conviction I think.

Really???
Does this mean when applying for a job i have to put down i have a criminal conviction?

 

[bakerstreet]

Yorkie said: 'Seek legal advice, but you have to prove innocence or you are considered guilty when it comes to the railway.'

In all seriousness, is that an opinion or is that legal fact?

I didn't think any crime was guitly unless proven innocent in the uk. I thought there needed to be proof. Otherwise TOCs could do what they want! Where are the checks and balances.

I always have a valid ticket but if, for example, I had paid cash and lost it en route I would like to think some effort might take place from the prosecution to actually try to prove any guilt. Which in my example they couldn't prove because I had bought a ticket.

 

[royaloak]

He did show intent by willingly and knowingly obtaining travel with out a valid ticket or means to purchase, and instead using somebody elses ticket, he was also in posession of a childs ticket for a previous date, how much proof do you need.

Welcome to the real world, we reap what we sow.

 

[350401]

A couple of points - regardless of what you may think, you have to proven to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt - i.e. 99% sure that you committed an offence . However, from what is posted, its likely that could be proved by CCTV evidence. What you should of done is make yourself known to the barrier staff and explain your situation. Up in the NT region, what would of then happened is your details would have been taken and you'd be sent an unpaid fares notice. Pay that and nothing happens. People make mistakes after all / get mugged and have their wallet/tickets stolen. The problem is that you tried to use a ticket you picked up. That you had child tickets on you is immaterial - they cannot be seized in evidence except by a BTP officer, and so won't/should not come into the case.

When the summons comes (it will do I'm afraid) call up the supplied number, express how sorry you are and plead you won't do it again. There is a good chance you'll get charged your fare and a £25 admin charge if you pay over the phone with a card, get a stiff warning letter in the post and that will be the end of it. Try calling on a Friday afternoon when people are in a better mood / want to get home and cut paperwork down. I'm guessing the TOC is NXEA? If you were PACED by one of their RPO's, its likely the case will have gone to their in-house prosecutions team. In which case they may well settle as stated. If you were stopped by a BTP, it'll of gone to the Crown Prosecution Service who never settle out of court.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Really???
Does this mean when applying for a job i have to put down i have a criminal conviction?

It depends on the job your applying for. Most jobs, no. Some jobs are exempt from the Rehab of Offenders Act and so will require it to be declared. These are anything in positions of legal/fiscal/personal responsibilty - lawyers/doctors/police etc. Its quite easy to find out which ones are exempt and so need to be declared - google it. And yes, It *still* is *innocent* until proven guilty in the UK, despite the best efforts of the current government.

 

[Greenback]

From the original post, I think he was trying to get through the barrier behind someone with a ticket! I could be wrong though!

As far as I am concerned, he is guilty of deliberate fare evasion, not just for sneaking through the barrier, but for travelling previously on child tickets. He has admitted his guilt and now he just has to take the consequences, whatever they are.

 

[curly42]

Whilst I hope you are remorseful, what would have been your actions if you didn't get caught? A remorseful person would have purchased a ticket without travelling at a later stage so as to put the money you owe back in. There are two tiers to your offence. One, not wanting to walk home for money. Two, and more seriously, trying to use another ticket to avoid detection. At the end of the day it's far better to have not intentionally comitted fraud, than to show remorse for doing so.

I'm in total agreement with Matt here - I guess that 15 minute walk back home doesn't seem such a bad idea now.

 

[37401]

Getting through the barrier with someone elses ticket?
Having a child ticket at 18?

yeahh good luck son, hope you learnt your lesson, I had to do a 15-20 min walk twice a day when I was at school, its nothing pal

Its your own fault, got no sympathy from me hope they throw the book at you

 

[466.networkers]

Sorry for what I'm going to say, but it's the truth.

I have no sympathy for anyone who is caught without buying a ticket, why should you get away without paying for your fare when I have to buy my ticket every month?

There's a reason why there are barriers at stations - revenue protection.

If you are caught with a child ticket and you are 18, then you've got no right to travel. If adullt fares are so expensive, have you considered a 16-25 Railcard?

This sort of thing really annoys me, especially when my fare will be rising by 7% from 2 weeks time.

If you have to go to court and have a criminal record, it's no-one's fault but your own. 15 minutes walking back home would've stopped you being cautioned, a possible summon to court and a fine.

End of rant, sorry for being so blunt.

 

[90019]

hope they throw the book at you

I've heard they're going to throw the book, followed by the bookshelf then the library, brick by brick.


Please tell me someone gets the reference

 

[37401]

I've heard they're going to throw the book, followed by the bookshelf then the library, brick by brick.


Please tell me someone gets the reference

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I have no sympathy whatsover as it isn't the first time!

Rather than walk for 15 minutes you chose to break the law. For that I have no sympathy, although can understand the thought process. The fact you had another ticket on you which proves you have committed fraud twice. No sympathy or understanding. I hope your future employers are aware that you have committed fraud and intended too. Whether by criminal record or not.

They shouldn't just throw the book, they should through the whole British Library,

 

[Trains06]

I've heard they're going to throw the book, followed by the bookshelf then the library, brick by brick.


Please tell me someone gets the reference

Hehe

 

[Old Timer]

.... This was a one-off mistake i made which i totally regret and am worried it may affect my employment chances in the future.

Reading the various post here, I think if you had not used a child ticket previously then you may have stood a little chance of some sympathy for having done something stupid.

I doubt there are many on here who have not done silly things, gotten away with them, and then later in the cold light of day, regretted it. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Fare evasion could excused as a stupid error on one occasion but you have admitted to doing this before, and this does your case no good whatsoever, hence why you will find little if any sympathy here.

Whilst the TOC MAY have been prepared to exercise a little leniency had there just been this one infraction, I am afraid you have created what is called "form", evidence of past fare evasion.

It is this which will almost certainly see you ending up in Court. Fare evasion is an absolute offence, in that there is only the need to demonstrate that it has occurred. The punishment is automatic, only the level of the punishment is for debate.

As for this going on record well, yes it will be on record.

Here is what Gray Holt Cooper (solicitors) who specialise in fare evasion issues have to say about it :

The conviction will have to be disclosed on every subsequent application for employment. It never becomes "spent" like a driving offense for say speeding, it will always have to be disclosed. If you apply for a job and are competing against other candidates with similar skills and qualifications as you hold, you may find the conviction for dishonesty weighs heavily against you.

The conviction will stop you entering certain countries completely. If you are convicted you will not be able to enter Australia or the U.S.A. to name the biggest countries and again this will last indefinitely.

Here is a link to their website. You may wish to contact them on Monday, to seek their advice.

http://www.grayhooperholt.co.uk/legal-articles/railway-fare-evasion.html

 

[73110]

If you're 18 then the law treats you differently as you're considered an adult, rather than a child who has to pay adult bus and train fares.

Agreed. You are an adult so will go to an adult prison. Pass the soap mate.....

 

[tony_mac]

It never becomes "spent"

I wonder why they think the ROHA doesn't apply.

 

[yorkie]

You'd have been better off speeding and almost killing someone on the roads :P

Yorkie said: 'Seek legal advice, but you have to prove innocence or you are considered guilty when it comes to the railway.'

In all seriousness, is that an opinion or is that legal fact?

Out of those, the former! But it really depends on your definition of "proof". Also it's more of an observation based on what appears to happen, rather than what should happen.

But it's also to do with the fact that someone in uniform is going to be believed over a customer. So if someone in a uniform says someone was dodging, then it's going to be incredibly hard for that person to prove they were not. And if they do not prove they were not, then the court only has to believe the inspector, and it's then an "absolute offence" and it's game over for future employment.

Anyway it's largely irrelevant to this topic as the OP has admitted the offence, and repeated offences, and the intent, and admitted the fact he 'doubled up' in the barrier as well!

 

[Ferret]

As for this going on record well, yes it will be on record.

Here is what Gray Holt Cooper (solicitors) who specialise in fare evasion issues have to say about it :


Here is a link to their website. You may wish to contact them on Monday, to seek their advice.

http://www.grayhooperholt.co.uk/legal-articles/railway-fare-evasion.html

That's very interesting - I presumed that under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, that it would become a spent conviction in time. Serious consequences indeed!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Let's not confuse the OP!
There will be a record of a Criminal Conviction under their name if, and only if, he is successfully prosecuted for an offence. It is possible he will be issued with an Unpaid Fares Notice (or even a more lenient response, tho unlikely) in which case he does not become a Criminal.
I concur with brantastic that many jobs will NOT require a Criminal Records Check, but do not fully agree that the CPS "never settle out of Court". They are not in a position to make a settlement on behalf of the Crown, but they WILL assess the evidence of a case to determine if the evidence is adequate and if it is justifiable in the public interest. (I have successfully persuaded them that a prosecution was NOT worth persuing on behalf of a client).
Furthermore, a Conviction exists on a record for a period of time only. (I was recently arguing a case against someone who had been convicted of some quite awful activities, but the Court would not allow these activities of Convictions to even be mentioned, because they had all expired). See the 1974 Rehabilitation of Offenders Act .
There's a Citizens Advice Bureau summary in plain English here

Let me re-inforce the advice from Yorkie and Old Timer to "Seek legal advice" Do it NOW. Do NOT wait until you get the next response from the TOC
Quote, with my emphasis: "If you decide not to engage the help of a specialist solicitor, you may find that you are subsequently convicted of an offence"

 

[royaloak]

Agreed. You are an adult so will go to an adult prison. Pass the soap mate.....

Oops dropped it, can you pick it up for me?hock:

 

[nedchester]

I doubt there are many on here who have not done silly things, gotten away with them, and then later in the cold light of day, regretted it. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Have to agree here. There seems to be a lot of self-righteous folk on here who have never done anything wrong.

Many on here have 'got away' without paying for the odd train journey for all sorts of reasons. Not saying it's right just a fact.