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Storm Darragh - 6/7th Dec

Lewisham2221

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Really? Missed these. Please show me. Signal failures from a panel on Cardiff. Hardly semaphore. Cables and fibre. But apologies if this is in fact the case. Why isn't that given as a reason on any web or journey check?
I'm really not sure what your point is? That they haven't updated the exact reason for the service suspension to give the specific details of which bits of infrastructure still aren't working properly and are thus preventing service resuming?

The service was suspended yesterday due to the weather conditions, which you claim to understand.

The service remained suspended today, until it can be confirmed that it is safe to start running trains again. This what you don't seem to be grasping. Such confirmation has not been forthcoming, thus services remain suspended. There's absolutely no benefit to anyone to updating the text on the website to give specific details of every single fault, defect or obstruction found.
 
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Topological

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Understanding fully the logic of not re-opening until the lines are checked. I actually think it was right to just cancel today and then focus on getting everything cleared and checked.

Does anyone know the status of the Swansea to Cardiff and the Marches? Currently no cancellations are showing for tomorrow, just a diversion of the very early Swansea train via the Vale of Glamorgan (requiring an earlier start and a new path in the timetable)
 

cheekybifta

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The North Wales Coast line is currently suspended awaiting route proving, which is in progress.

The route proving train has, in the last 15 minutes or so found 5 large trees down across both lines east of Llandudno Junction.

There are multiple outstanding signal failures along the line of route.

So yeah, not infact closed for the sake of it…

Saw this train stopped on the line near Mochdre - don't know if it returned to Junction or eventually made it through.

Not sure where the suggestion that Llandudno Junction to Chester is now clear has come from in recent posts.
 

Snow1964

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I'm really not sure what your point is? That they haven't updated the exact reason for the service suspension to give the specific details of which bits of infrastructure still aren't working properly and are thus preventing service resuming?

The service was suspended yesterday due to the weather conditions, which you claim to understand.

The service remained suspended today, until it can be confirmed that it is safe to start running trains again. This what you don't seem to be grasping. Such confirmation has not been forthcoming, thus services remain suspended. There's absolutely no benefit to anyone to updating the text on the website to give specific details of every single fault, defect or obstruction found.
Somewhere in the middle would be the correct way, after all people will start looking at website today to know if their journey to work will be ok on Monday morning.

Something along lines, of saying inspecting the line for debris blown onto the tracks, will update the message by 17:00 giving update on estimated line reopening time.

Sometimes the people updating these seem to forget what info the customer is looking for, the person looking wants to know an estimated reopening, and doesn't want to re-check couple of hours later and find same message as yesterday still there with no indication when might be ok to travel again.
 

Lewisham2221

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Somewhere in the middle would be the correct way, after all people will start looking at website today to know if their journey to work will be ok on Monday morning.

Something along lines, of saying inspecting the line for debris blown onto the tracks, will update the message by 17:00 giving update on estimated line reopening time.

Sometimes the people updating these seem to forget what info the customer is looking for, the person looking wants to know an estimated reopening, and doesn't want to re-check couple of hours later and find same message as yesterday still there with no indication when might be ok to travel again.
Agree an update re: tomorrow
 

yoyothehobo

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Just show me where the line is blocked?

A train took an awfully long time after leaving Holyhead. But...made it. Nothing quoted as blocking lines between Junction Chester anywhere
No one knew the line was blocked at Carmont a few years back.

Considering the widespread nature of the storm and limited number of people able to undertake inspections, route clearing etc..in daylight.

The NR helicopter will be up checking routes but is limited by cloud ceiling and weather conditions and where it actually is in the country at the given time and route priorities etc...

The route check will also have to look at high risk earthworks and structures as well.

Though by the sounds of it you would be happy to personally undertake an at linespeed route proving exercise. I am sure it will be fine.
 

Old Yard Dog

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My Liv-bhm train is terminating at cre due to problems at Penkridge Is anything running through from cre to wvh & bhm?

Eventually ran out of time and took my first ever Uber from Stafford to The Hawthorns. It cost me £15 more than the initial quote. Then to top it off, I got turfed off the tram at Priestfield after the game due a car on the line.

The storm persuaded me to have my football fix on Sunday instead of Saturday. Ironically Carlton Town v Bradford went ahead unexpectedly yesterday and trains did run to Carlton from Crewe
 

Topological

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I notice trains from Carmarthen are slowly dropping out tomorrow morning. GWR starting the whole train at Swansea instead of attaching a 5-car from Carmarthen. TfW is less clear as currently 1W54 is starting from Cardiff, but for 1W16 the whole service to Manchester shows as cancelled.
 

alansmithee

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Burscough
Avanti replacement buses operating BHM - WVH and WVH - STA.

West Mids replacement buses operating WVH - CRE (presumably via Stafford)
The driver was asked who he was working for and he no idea only a 20-seater when I was there and thankfully I got on it and made it for the rail replacement bus in Wigan!
 

infobleep

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I’m not sure

Nor am I.

I also don't know why trains ran all the way from Weymouth to London via Guildford today rather than splitting at Bournemouth as they did yesterday. I appreciate yesterday they didn't run via Guildford.

My guess would be it's due to staffing numbers available or the timetable not working if they finished early at Bournemouth but I could be totally wrong on either. It was just something I noticed, rather than having any particular issue with it.
 

800001

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I notice trains from Carmarthen are slowly dropping out tomorrow morning. GWR starting the whole train at Swansea instead of attaching a 5-car from Carmarthen. TfW is less clear as currently 1W54 is starting from Cardiff, but for 1W16 the whole service to Manchester shows as cancelled.
Picture attached below of latest update from Network Rail.
NWR are confident the Majority of services east of Swansea, including south wales mainline, vale of Glamorgan and Valley lines should run be running in the morning.
GWR London to Swansea services should run.

Services between Swansea and Carmarthen will not resume until at least midday due to safety checks.
 

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infobleep

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That seems sensible in the circumstances.

Your second sentence alights on another key issue: if lots of crews are delayed for several hours tonight, you’ll then encounter disruption tomorrow afternoon due to those crew members needing 12 hours between shifts.
Still, they will have more crew available tomorrow who didn't work today, today being a Sunday. I don't object to people who don't wish to work on Sundays and/or do overtime.

After weather as extreme as that experienced yesterday the only reasonable course of action is to block lines until they are proven clear, rather than run trains and hope for the best. And line proving is not a 5 minute job, either to arrange or carry out, especially in the hours of darkness at this time of year.
It makes sense. Now had the weather Wales experienced yesterday occurred say in Surrey, Sussex and Kent ,to the same extreme, would they also have waited until today, to clear the trees? Or is it simply the case due to the longer distances and rural nature of some of Wales, it takes long to go down each line compared to the south east? I'm not saying they weren't doing stuff in Wales yesterday. Just that some of it was done today.
 
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Topological

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Picture attached below of latest update from Network Rail.
NWR are confident the Majority of services east of Swansea, including south wales mainline, vale of Glamorgan and Valley lines should run be running in the morning.
GWR London to Swansea services should run.

Services between Swansea and Carmarthen will not resume until at least midday due to safety checks.
Thank you for this. I had not seen the update. It is good to know that the South Wales Main Line is expected to be ok. It has been quite windy still today so every credit to those out getting the line ready.
 

infobleep

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I'm really not sure what your point is? That they haven't updated the exact reason for the service suspension to give the specific details of which bits of infrastructure still aren't working properly and are thus preventing service resuming?

The service was suspended yesterday due to the weather conditions, which you claim to understand.

The service remained suspended today, until it can be confirmed that it is safe to start running trains again. This what you don't seem to be grasping. Such confirmation has not been forthcoming, thus services remain suspended. There's absolutely no benefit to anyone to updating the text on the website to give specific details of every single fault, defect or obstruction found.
If there is no benefit in doing this, why do South Western Railway do this?
 

M60lad

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31 May 2011
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I see that tomorrow due to a tree causing damage near Stone all XC services will be diverted via Crewe for most of the day.
 

spp

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Avanti replacement buses operating BHM - WVH and WVH - STA.

West Mids replacement buses operating WVH - CRE (presumably via Stafford)
Did Liverpool to Wolverhampton earlier. Got to Crewe on the LNW that usually runs straight through, had a look around the rail replacement area coaches parked up but no staff and people wandering round aimlessly, jumped on a Euston bound Avanti that called at Stafford (always think get as close to home as possible) and luckily straight onto a rail replacement at Stafford to Wolverhampton.

Looks like LNW only stopped cutting the Liverpool/Birmingham trains short at Crewe for the last couple tonight.
 

londonmidland

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Network Rail have put a line block on the WCML Trent Valley to deal with the ongoing landslip issues around the Polesworth area.

Fixes to an OLE gantry are happening tonight. However, there’s a risk of the Trent Valley being blocked all day tomorrow if repairs aren’t complete overnight.
 

Old Yard Dog

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Did Liverpool to Wolverhampton earlier. Got to Crewe on the LNW that usually runs straight through, had a look around the rail replacement area coaches parked up but no staff and people wandering round aimlessly, jumped on a Euston bound Avanti that called at Stafford (always think get as close to home as possible) and luckily straight onto a rail replacement at Stafford to Wolverhampton.

Looks like LNW only stopped cutting the Liverpool/Birmingham trains short at Crewe for the last couple tonight.

Mirrors my experience. The conductor on the Liv-Cre told us to catch a rail replacement bus from next to P12 where we pulled in. 50 ppx or more piled out and saw a couple of buses parked up showing no signs of going anywhere with no station staff to help. I eventually twigged there were a couple of trains to Stafford just after 1200 so I headed to P12 for the 1203 which was locked up & showing no signs of going anywhere. So I headed across to P11 guessing the 1210 might go first which I think it did. If there were tannoy announcements I didnt hear them. No obvious signs of an imminent bus to WVH at STA so I took a taxi.

Interestingly buses were laid on direct from New St to Stafford in the early evening so there were only about 7 of us on the bus from Wvh at about 1830.

Any idea when the tree fell at Penkridge? There was nothing online when I left home at0915. If I’d known I would have driven to WBA.
 

Topological

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Currently, Hereford to Shrewsbury is closed until 09:00 and am supposed to be travelling over that section just before 10:00. Let's see what happens.
 

IslandLine101

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As usual there is lots of beef in this thread between the ‘can dos’ and the ‘can not dos’.

Before bashing people who say ‘its a disgrace‘ and ‘lines should be open’, we are not saying to do away with proving trains, we are not saying that trains should be running at line speed in 80 mph winds. Take an example. Since Wednesday we knew that Saturday was going to be beyond awful. But 4 days should be enough time to resource 3 or 4 proving trains to start 8am Sunday and clear the various mainlines. Yes it may take all morning, and trains may have to run at 40/50mph for the rest of the day in case of more issues. Eg, Cardiff East&West, Shrewsbury South&North, Chester West & Holyhead East. How hard can it be.

The reason the railway is stuck at the moment is we have lost people high up taking the initiative and putting the service/passengers first. Transportation is not an optional service. Yes most of us can adjust travel plans for the storm, but we still have to travel. You can just say ‘no’ for the worst of it, but then at least make an effort to get going again once it has died down!

And there can be no doubt, the TfW communication this weekend has been awful. Line information buried deep within journey check, with no photos, no reasons, and no clarity. Just saying no trains today, sod off. And then constantly pushing back opening times by days at a time with no evidence or explanation. How difficult is it to attach a photo of a tree on the line, which control likely has as it is making these decisions live, and say this is why we cannot run trains? Will shut everyone up in a heartbeat.

As a final note, I am not bashing the teams dealing with the clear up, and indeed am extremely grateful for their efforts. I am saying that it is a failure of management to not mobilise these teams quicker, more of them, and get the job done more efficiently, with some element of public communication.
 

cheekybifta

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And there can be no doubt, the TfW communication this weekend has been awful. Line information buried deep within journey check, with no photos, no reasons, and no clarity. Just saying no trains today, sod off. And then constantly pushing back opening times by days at a time with no evidence or explanation. How difficult is it to attach a photo of a tree on the line, which control likely has as it is making these decisions live, and say this is why we cannot run trains? Will shut everyone up in a heartbeat.

Agree with this, particularly surprised around the lack of comms ahead of Monday morning with so many mainlines still shut.
 

MarkWi72

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I read on the Express and Star website, that Trent Valley is blocked by a land slip. Anyone know exact location? Someone said near Polesworth?
 

43055

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After the route proving train yesterday it appears a shuttle is running between Holyhead and Llandudno Junction as well as up to Llandudno.
 

cheekybifta

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Dolwydellan residents not happy being left with no trains and no replacement buses today. The train is their only public transport with their last bus service withdrawn years ago, a situation I'd imagine is repeated along lots of the Heart of Wales and Cambrian lines today.
 

yoyothehobo

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As usual there is lots of beef in this thread between the ‘can dos’ and the ‘can not dos’.

Before bashing people who say ‘its a disgrace‘ and ‘lines should be open’, we are not saying to do away with proving trains, we are not saying that trains should be running at line speed in 80 mph winds. Take an example. Since Wednesday we knew that Saturday was going to be beyond awful. But 4 days should be enough time to resource 3 or 4 proving trains to start 8am Sunday and clear the various mainlines. Yes it may take all morning, and trains may have to run at 40/50mph for the rest of the day in case of more issues. Eg, Cardiff East&West, Shrewsbury South&North, Chester West & Holyhead East. How hard can it be.

The reason the railway is stuck at the moment is we have lost people high up taking the initiative and putting the service/passengers first. Transportation is not an optional service. Yes most of us can adjust travel plans for the storm, but we still have to travel. You can just say ‘no’ for the worst of it, but then at least make an effort to get going again once it has died down!

And there can be no doubt, the TfW communication this weekend has been awful. Line information buried deep within journey check, with no photos, no reasons, and no clarity. Just saying no trains today, sod off. And then constantly pushing back opening times by days at a time with no evidence or explanation. How difficult is it to attach a photo of a tree on the line, which control likely has as it is making these decisions live, and say this is why we cannot run trains? Will shut everyone up in a heartbeat.

As a final note, I am not bashing the teams dealing with the clear up, and indeed am extremely grateful for their efforts. I am saying that it is a failure of management to not mobilise these teams quicker, more of them, and get the job done more efficiently, with some element of public communication.
Or maybe the people in charge, with their limited resources and who would be the ones gripping the brass rod in the court room should anything go wrong because of their decisions are being cautious and the memory of Carmont is still fresh in peoples minds. Running the entire service at well below line speed and for half a day is a recipe for timetabling disaster and has a strong chance to heavily disrupt timetables into the rest of the week due to drivers and units being out of position and the staff hours also being all over the place.

The phrase "How Hard Can it Be" is generally used by people who have absolutely no idea on what is actually needed but just like to have a little whine.
 

cheekybifta

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Or maybe the people in charge, with their limited resources and who would be the ones gripping the brass rod in the court room should anything go wrong because of their decisions are being cautious and the memory of Carmont is still fresh in peoples minds. Running the entire service at well below line speed and for half a day is a recipe for timetabling disaster and has a strong chance to heavily disrupt timetables into the rest of the week due to drivers and units being out of position and the staff hours also being all over the place.

The phrase "How Hard Can it Be" is generally used by people who have absolutely no idea on what is actually needed but just like to have a little whine.

We need more communication when an essential service is lost for 3+ days.

I know the North Wales Coast isn't closed on Monday morning because "nobody can be bothered" but a bit more information to fill the vacuum would make a big difference. It'd be easier to defend TfW/NR against that allegation if we had an answer beyond "weather".

As an example, I'm sure there's a good reason why they only managed to prove Holyhead to Llandudno Junction yesterday. The one route proving train was given a path from Holyhead to Chester but only made roughly as far as Junction before dark. I'm sure there's a reason, be it safety or resources, why they couldn't send another route proving train out from the opposite end yesterday from Chester but it'd be nice if they'd tell the public a bit more about what's going on.

I might be happy to spend my time on forums, RTT and Traksy having a nose at what's going on, but the thousands of commuters who've been left stranded this morning deserve a bit more than "no trains, no buses, maybe check back later"

Journeycheck is full of errors and contradictions this morning. In the one Journeycheck item for the coast:
"Due to severe weather between Holyhead and Chester all lines are blocked" - they're not, Holyhead to Llandudno Junction is running
"Disruption is expected until 12:00" followed by "will be severely disrupted all day"
"Trains are running but there is major disruption" again followed by "all lines are closed, trains running to and from these stations will be cancelled, expected until the end of the day"

HHD - LLJ is running. LLJ to LLD is running. LLJ to CTR remains closed with route proving underway. "How hard can it be" to reflect that online?
 
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