Stranded overnight by train strikes

[JustKeepRollin]

Basic situation is that after I'd traveled on the outbound leg of my London holiday, strikes were announced for the return leg (this Saturday, GWR) and the train I'd booked tickets on has now been cancelled, as have all other trains that evening.

My "choices" now are
- cut short my holiday, travel back several hours early and cancel some non refundable plans we have
- pay for an extra night in a hotel (£185 in a basic hotel, so a non starter)
- turn up at Paddington on Saturday night and feign ignorance about the strikes, and rely on arguing the toss about NRCOC - but this is a big risk

Section 28.2 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage states
"Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary, provide overnight accommodation for you"

GWR (via twitter DM) are claiming that they don't have to provide travel or accommodation because this is actually a planned and scheduled alteration (!!)

They are suggesting that I cut short my holiday and cancel my plans, don't travel at all (I'd be stranded in London indefinitely!), or find an alternative method of transport (but they can't tell me what alternative method of transport is open to someone traveling with a dog - coach companies don't take them)

Can anyone advise me of my rights? Ideally I want to travel back Saturday evening as booked, on an alternative method of transport, but if not I'd like them to provide accommodation overnight and travel back Sunday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you have an annual travel policy covering this eventuality? That is the first thing I would check.

If not, I would suggest looking for an extra night's hotel just outside London to keep the cost down, on a route that is not on strike or a Tube route (it's only some routes that are striking*). I've seen it suggested on here that the Travelodge and Premier Inn in Croydon can be quite cheap, as can Heathrow if you're happy getting there on the Piccadilly Line, but there are literally thousands of them. That way you don't lose your non-refundable plans.

Another option would be to see if there is a coach service that will suit.

The third option of feigning ignorance I wouldn't try without a prebooked refundable hotel, and most are not refundable or changeable after 1pm on the day of arrival. You theoretically do have the right to alternative transport, but it is very, very unlikely (i.e. basically no chance) you will get it; realistically the only way to do this would be to pay for it yourself and sue the TOC for the cost, which may or may not be successful.

* NR staff affecting Chiltern, XC, GWR, SWR and the Elizabeth Line

 

[jon81uk]

I would say that disruption is when the train is cancelled with short notice (ie hours or minutes) or delayed. As this is known about days in advance it is a planned alteration so they don't need to provide you with anything.

You'll need to check your travel insurance to see if they will pay for alternative accommodation.

Might want to look at Imperial Hotels, they are closer to Euston but reasonable prices for central London, although they have gone up recently.

Royal National Hotel: Immerse in Central London's Vibrant Heart

Experience comfort and convenience at the UK's largest hotel, Royal National. Centrally located, our affordable hotel provides easy access to...

www.imperialhotels.co.uk

 

[yorkie]

...- pay for an extra night in a hotel (£185 in a basic hotel, so a non starter)...

How many of you are there and what date is this? I'm sure I can find a basic hotel a short train ride from Paddington for a more reasonable price...

 

[Starmill]

If I were you I would book a hotel, thus taking on the risk personally, then travel on Sunday and submit a claim to GWR for the cost of the hotel and any additional food and drink costs arising from the delay or travel within London to or from the hotel.

When GWR refuse to pay the bill, complain to the Ombudsman and point out that you were both long delayed and stranded overnight without alternative transport, as GWR are obliged to provide under the Passenger Rights & Obligations. You incurred reasonable costs as a result and would like GWR to fund them. At this stage I would also ask my MP to write to GWR reminding them of the PRO and NRCoT highlighting that there's no exception in either for disruption which is caused by industrial action.

You are still at high risk of not getting anything at all back, but at least you will minimise your losses. If all of the above avenues fail, you're still able to make a County Court claim against GWR. Obviously that's a bigger step but it's still something you can try if all else fails, and you don't need to pay for legal representation to do it, only the modest court fee, which is added onto GWR's bill if you win.

 

[VC00]

but they can't tell me what alternative method of transport is open to someone traveling with a dog - coach companies don't take them

Might be of help - I've managed to get a medium sized dog on a megabus by buying two seats and claiming he is a therapy dog in a similar situation.

 

[Starmill]

I think that the ethics of claiming that an animal is a service animal when it isn't are somewhat dubious really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that the ethics of claiming that an animal is a service animal when it isn't are somewhat dubious really.

Very dubious, as people lying about service dogs worsens the problem of genuine ones being denied travel.

 

[Merseysider]

Depending on where the destination is, and if a taxi/uber were a similar price to a hotel, maybe £100 tops, I personally would insist on GWR providing alternative transport, albeit in the knowledge I’d probably have to pay myself & claim it back.

Could the OP confirm their destination?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Basic situation is that after I'd traveled on the outbound leg of my London holiday, strikes were announced for the return leg (this Saturday, GWR) and the train I'd booked tickets on has now been cancelled, as have all other trains that evening.

My "choices" now are
- cut short my holiday, travel back several hours early and cancel some non refundable plans we have
- pay for an extra night in a hotel (£185 in a basic hotel, so a non starter)
- turn up at Paddington on Saturday night and feign ignorance about the strikes, and rely on arguing the toss about NRCOC - but this is a big risk

Section 28.2 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage states
"Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary, provide overnight accommodation for you"

GWR (via twitter DM) are claiming that they don't have to provide travel or accommodation because this is actually a planned and scheduled alteration (!!)

They are suggesting that I cut short my holiday and cancel my plans, don't travel at all (I'd be stranded in London indefinitely!), or find an alternative method of transport (but they can't tell me what alternative method of transport is open to someone traveling with a dog - coach companies don't take them)

Can anyone advise me of my rights? Ideally I want to travel back Saturday evening as booked, on an alternative method of transport, but if not I'd like them to provide accommodation overnight and travel back Sunday.

This is usually where travel insurance comes in.

 

[12LDA28C]

Where exactly are you attempting to travel to on Saturday night and at what time?

 

[JustKeepRollin]

Thanks for your help everyone.

I'm afraid I don't have an annual travel insurance policy. This is because I haven't been abroad since before covid, and my medical history is so complex that I have to take out a rather expensive specialist policy every time I do travel abroad.

I'm going from Paddington to Cardiff Central but need to travel via Bristol (preferably Temple Meads, but Parkway if necessary). This is because my dog is currently staying with family in Bristol, and they'll bring him to the train station before continuing our journey. This is allowed as a break of journey, though I don't cross the ticket barriers, we just pass the dog and his lead under the barriers.

An Uber all the way would be in the region of £300, which isn't a sum I can afford to risk, and nor am I going to mess around going to some hotel in the arse end of nowhere because GWR can't get its act together (there aren't even any rail replacement bus services ffs!). The £185 was based on an extra night in our Premier Inn Hub, and hotels don't tend to get much cheaper than a Premier Inn Hub unless they have bedbugs; we paid £105 per night for the rest of our stay. The tickets for the activity we'll be missing were less than that.

I'm not going to try and claim the dog is an emotional support dog - it's a dick move, and he's not an emotional support dog, he's an emotional wreck, and I'd have more luck claiming I'm his emotional support human. Perhaps I should say he identifies as a trans-species human and must be treated accordingly.

I had booked on the 1915 departure from Paddington (though with an off peak ticket I might have got on a slightly earlier or later train in reality). I'm now planning to take
1600 Paddington - 1707 Westbury
1712 Westbury - 1753 Bristol Temple Meads
1803 Bristol Temple Meads - 1846 Cardiff Central
... pray I make all my connections, but that's the route suggested by National Rail journey planner (it's the last train from WSB-BRI, and the last train from BRI-CDF before a couple of 3 hour rail replacement buses that go via Gloucester and might or might not take a dog at the drivers discretion, with no way of finding out beforehand). Then I have to try and get a bus home when there's an international rugby match on in Cardiff city centre <bangs head against brick wall>

Once I'm back I'm intending to make a complaint to the Rail Ombudsman because GWR are currently point blank denying that they have any obligations towards me in terms of providing alternative transport or accommodation, stating in an email "I’m afraid the planned timetable changes in advance as strike amendments, are not the same as the disruption mentioned in National Rail Conditions of Carriage. I therefore regret that we won’t be able to cover any additional expenses incurred as result of the industrial action and I am sorry for any disappointment this causes".

Can anyone confirm that I'll still get Delay Repay when forced to travel on an earlier train under these circumstances, even if that train is not in itself delayed?

 

[yorkie]

. This is allowed as a break of journey, though I don't cross the ticket barriers, we just pass the dog and his lead under the barriers.

This is not a break of journey, so is always allowed.

What date is this journey?

Can anyone confirm that I'll still get Delay Repay when forced to travel on an earlier train under these circumstances, even if that train is not in itself delayed?

You can put a claim in and I think you should get it, but the view of some companies is that you are not entitled to it; it's all discussed in detail in previous threads.

 

[JustKeepRollin]

This is not a break of journey, so is always allowed.

What date is this journey?


You can put a claim in and I think you should get it, but the view of some companies is that you are not entitled to it; it's all discussed in detail in previous threads.

Thank you

As per my first post it's for travel today (Saturday)

 

[yorkie]

If you are considering staying overnight today and travelling tomorrow, I found a Premier Inn at Heathrow for £72; I think the saving of over £110 makes that well worth considering.

If it was me I would do that and put in a Delay Repay claim; there is no guarantee the claim will be accepted (see threads on the subject) but it's worth a try. I would also point out I had to book an additional nights accommodation, which may increase the chances of a payout.

 

[Starmill]

Before you can refer your case to the Rail Ombudsman, you need to tell GWR that you're unhappy with the service they're providing and that you think they should be paying your reasonable costs arising from the changes to the timetable made at the last minute.

They'll send you a so-called 'deadlock letter' which you will need to send to the Ombudsman with your complaint.

It is worth making a delay claim in addition. However, it is very unlikely that GWR will pay it unless the Ombudsman's adjudication requires that they do, or you litigate.

 

[nanstallon]

This is usually where travel insurance comes in.

Why should people have to take out travel insurance to travel in their own country? And knowing how insurance companies weasel out of paying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why should people have to take out travel insurance to travel in their own country? And knowing how insurance companies weasel out of paying.

You don't have to. You have the option to self insure, of course.

But most annual policies do include domestic cover for free provided the trip is at least two nights away.

 

[richw]

How long ago did you book your original journey, and at such point entered into a contract with GWR? This could be key, having booked some time before the strikes were announced.
Yes they are planned changes, but we’re they planned when you entered into your contract With them.

 

[nanstallon]

How long ago did you book your original journey, and at such point entered into a contract with GWR? This could be key, having booked some time before the strikes were announced.
Yes they are planned changes, but we’re they planned when you entered into your contract With them.

Quite. It doesn't seem right that a TOC can renege on a contract, and expect the customer to be responsible for insuring against such failure to fulfil the contract.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thinking about this again.

Has not the contract here been frustrated by outside action (the strike) which leaves neither party liable for anything other than a full refund?

 

[nanstallon]

Thinking about this again.

Has not the contract here been frustrated by outside action (the strike) which leaves neither party liable for anything other than a full refund?

Why is the strike 'outside action'? Maybe the reason for not fulfilling the contract is the TOC's failure to manage its industrial relations properly. The TOC is still capable of fulfilling the contract by providing alternative transport. The cost to the TOC is irrelevant.

 

[eoff]

Thinking about this again.

Has not the contract here been frustrated by outside action (the strike) which leaves neither party liable for anything other than a full refund?

Interesting how this may or may not compare with the similar situation for flights. I recently had some colleagues who were stranded in the UK for an extra day due to an air traffic control strike in France. This was not the fault of the airline so no compensation was due but they did owe a duty of care which in the end amounted to paying compensation for alternative flights and a hotel stay + expenses.

The regulations I found a reference to for rail (from the EU regulations) only seem to consider disruption during a journey underway and not to wholesale change of plans for the return leg of a trip.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Why should people have to take out travel insurance to travel in their own country? And knowing how insurance companies weasel out of paying.

Because travel insurance is for travel both domestically and abroad. What do you think travel insurance is for if it’s not for travelling, the country you are travelling in as a bit irrelevant, it’s basically to cover you when you are away from home.

Amongst other things it’s to step in and get some recompense when you get stranded somewhere through no fault of your own, this could be just as difficult expensive for you in your own country as abroad.

 

[Haywain]

Why should people have to take out travel insurance to travel in their own country? And knowing how insurance companies weasel out of paying.

Because sometimes things happen which are unforeseen. And insurers pay out for insured events but unfortunately many claims are for events that are not covered (or are fraudulent), so insurers are cautious.

 

[nanstallon]

Interesting how this may or may not compare with the similar situation for flights. I recently had some colleagues who were stranded in the UK for an extra day due to an air traffic control strike in France. This was not the fault of the airline so no compensation was due but they did owe a duty of care which in the end amounted to paying compensation for alternative flights and a hotel stay + expenses.

The regulations I found a reference to for rail (from the EU regulations) only seem to consider disruption during a journey underway and not to wholesale change of plans for the return leg of a trip.

TOCs seem to be able to abandon their customers when it suits them. I remember travelling from Cornwall to Norwich. I got on the train at Truro, no mention of the possibility that the train might not get to London, but at Exeter we were told the train was going no further due to floods on the line. No replacement transport was offered and we were simply told to go back home. Having booked a hotel near Norwich for a week, not refundable, this was no use to me. Without any help from the railway, I worked out my own solution, which was to get a local service bus to Tiverton, then another to Taunton, where I was able to connect with a GWR train to London, and (very) eventually got to my hotel. To be fair, GWR did give me delay-repay compensation plus taxi fare as by the time I got to Norwich it was too late for a bus to my destination. However, their behaviour at Exeter was unacceptable.

 

[Starmill]

Thinking about this again.

Has not the contract here been frustrated by outside action (the strike) which leaves neither party liable for anything other than a full refund?

No? The contract could become frustrated if an unforeseeable event, such as a war breaking out or very severe weather like a major hurricane destroyed substantial parts of the infrastructure.

All that's happened here is it's alleged that someone's employment rights have been breached and industrial action is a result. A predictable result really.

 

[paul1609]

Quite. It doesn't seem right that a TOC can renege on a contract, and expect the customer to be responsible for insuring against such failure to fulfil the contract.

Isnt the revenue risk here with the tax payer though? It doesnt seem right to me that the taxpayer should be paying compensation to travellers for slightly altered holiday plans over for intstance funding nhs backlogs. Id go so far as that when the whole revenue risk is with the taxpayer schemes such as delay repay should simply be scrapped.

 

[Starmill]

Isnt the revenue risk here with the tax payer though? It doesnt seem right to me that the taxpayer should be paying compensation to travellers for slightly altered holiday plans over for intstance funding nhs backlogs. Id go so far as that when the whole revenue risk is with the taxpayer schemes such as delay repay should simply be scrapped.

There's plenty of arguments for that, but it requires changes in the law and the conditions. Surely you accept that without changes in the law and to the conditions of the contract it's not possible to just strand someone overnight and not bother covering their costs? Also any changes would need to be publicised clearly in advance. Reducing compensation entitlements for delays is probably a good move to save costs, but it would need to be done transparently I'm certain you'll agree?

 

[AlterEgo]

Here is something helpful: “is strike action force majeure?” Maybe: https://www.clarionsolicitors.com/a...yway-the-impact-of-strike-action-on-contracts

Strike action may be considered a force majeure event if it is beyond the affected party’s control, the affected party has taken reasonable steps to avoid it and it is the only reason the contract cannot be performed. The affected party must be willing to perform the contract, in the absence of the force majeure event.

It will be difficult to succeed in declaring a strike as a force majeure event where the affected party has a direct relationship with the relevant trade union and may (by taking reasonable steps to mitigate the effects of the strike) be able to negotiate a quick end to the strike or avoid it completely (as seen in the decision inChannel Island Ferries Ltd v Sealink UK Ltd [1988] 1 Lloyd's Rep 323). An affected party may have more success where the relationship is more remote and it has taken reasonable steps to avoid the impact of the strike on its performance of the contract in question.

As the strikes are about a pay deal which is not in the gift of the TOCs to agree to without government interference, I’m inclined to think this is potentially a situation as @Bletchleyite suggests where the contract may be terminated without penalty, with full refund to the OP.