Strange Ticket Barrier setups

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Urban Gateline

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From recently looking at different stations's setup of ticket barriers, it has made me wonder why some stations seem to chose having a Gateline that consists of only 2 Wide Aisle gates (WAG)!

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/HRO/images/photos/800/o2140-0000201.jpg This is Harold Wood!

I think this setup is quite inefficient, I could understand the need for 1 WAG to comply with disability legislation, but two?! Why not just 2 normal gates and 1 WAG to make the flow more efficient. In this particular exit there is also a help point which suggests that these barriers are sometimes only monitored remotely, so it could also lead to "Tailgating"!

One of my local stations has done it better I reckon. Walton on Thameshttp://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/WAL/images/photos/800/o3316-0014153.jpg

Similarly, some places have just one WAG! http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/HWN/images/photos/800/o2178-0000174.jpg This is Harlow Town, although this gate is for the lift access, it seems to be left open, so anyone who doesn't want to buy a ticket can avoid the main ticket barriers by going through here...

Has anyone else seen Gateline setups which don't seem logical?
 
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wintonian

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Yes the whole barrier set up at Waterloo East with 1 entrance having no barrier and another having 2 (NR & LU) about 5 meters apart forcing you to use both to enter or exit at that end. Unfortunately I can't find a picture ATM.

Reading, where you can just circumnavigate it if you so wish.

And slough where if your ticket won’t go through you have to walk a reasonable way up the platform to the ‘other side’ to the attendant at the wide gate (i.e. behind the camera if you see what I mean).



And any station where they are only used during the morning and evening peaks.
 

tempests1

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I struggle to see why Haslemere Station needs 3 barriers on entry, & only one on exit during busy exit periods such as the evening peak. perhaps is has mot been changed since the morning peak!
 

Urban Gateline

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I struggle to see why Haslemere Station needs 3 barriers on entry, & only one on exit during busy exit periods such as the evening peak. perhaps is has mot been changed since the morning peak!

Things like that are very easy to change by just changing the direction of the gate on the control panel, the staff are supposed to change it to optimise for fast passenger flow!

I was more thinking about what the others have said above, the physical gates rather than the directional setup! Although I also can't understand the reasoning behind different operational times of Gatelines, some smaller stations have theirs operational from 5am onwards and then larger ones like Waterloo only from 06:15 and Clapham J from 06:30!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And any station where they are only used during the morning and evening peaks.

Southampton Central/Portsmouth&S-Sea/Fareham/Havant/Bournemouth/Winchester?

There's also many busy stations down south that could do with Barriers, Weymouth, Poole, Fratton, Brockenhurst, Portsmouth Harbour!
 

jon0844

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Finsbury Park. Stupidest barrier setup I've seen in a while.

Welwyn Garden City is equally stupid, and on a par with Finsbury Park (well, worse, as it has even fewer gates!).

FCC is fully aware of the safety risks (crushing or even people falling onto the tracks, down stairs etc), so they have to now keep the gates open at certain times of the day - which is pretty funny. Peak hours = Loads of people = Lots of potential fare evasion = Open gates.

FPK has at least got the room for emergency side gates that can open when the crowds get too big (football matches perhaps), yet with stairs behind them it's still not good to suddenly have everyone pile out in one go should someone go for the plunger.
 

WestCoast

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Not exactly a strange set-up, but if you wan't a laugh, how many gates do you look after?

Up in Northern-land, this modest set of gates used to have three (yes, three) gateline assistants. I know barriers are not that common at Northern stations, but it was slightly over the top!
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I did also think Bath Spa was quite unusual in having separate exit gates in what is described as the entrance lobby. Just seemed interesting.
 
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jon0844

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A bit like Gatwick when they put in the gates (well, the covers for the gates as they weren't yet in operation). One person for each gate!
 

Urban Gateline

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Not exactly a strange set-up, but if you wan't a laugh, how many gates do you look after?

Up in Northern-land, this modest set of gates used to have three (yes, three) gateline assistants. I know barriers are not that common at Northern stations, but it was slightly over the top!
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I did also think Bath Spa was quite unusual in having separate exit gates in what is described as the entrance lobby. Just seemed interesting.

I look after a Gateline of 5 Gates on my own at the busiest station in the UK (Clapham Junction), sometimes I'm lucky enough to get an RPI with me!

I quite like the Bath Spa setup actually, seems well organized, although may confuse people if they're using it for the first time!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A bit like Gatwick when they put in the gates (well, the covers for the gates as they weren't yet in operation). One person for each gate!

Are these barriers actually in full operation now? Does anyone have a Pic of them rather than the low-res images in the media/gat-exp site? The end of free travel to Gatwick for Airline staff hopefully! <D
 

Urban Gateline

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5? Is that all? Try doing platform 19 at Waterloo, there's 21 there including the WAG :P

I was going to say that, but you only get a train every 30mins there, whereas I still have to deal with trains every few minutes from 17 platforms! :p To be fair that WAG should be near the SCU, not at the far end, can't control tailgating otherwise!
 

trc666

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Speaking of tailgating, Hackney Central is a right pain in the backside for that, every time I go through those gates, I either see someone tailing through the WAG or someone tries to sneak behind me through a standard gate, which is why I won't use the WAG entering or exiting there unless I have to!

(And with regard to platform 19 at Waterloo, you still get people passing through this set of gates to get to and from 17 / 18 too.
 

Urban Gateline

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Speaking of tailgating, Hackney Central is a right pain in the backside for that, every time I go through those gates, I either see someone tailing through the WAG or someone tries to sneak behind me through a standard gate, which is why I won't use the WAG entering or exiting there unless I have to!

Well it's a dodgy area to be fair :p Isn't there a Gateline Asst there or are the barriers just controlled from the Ticket Office?

If someone tailgated behind me I would stop them, release the gate and send them back out! (maybe only at SWT stations though!) WAG takes too long to close, which is why I was surprised about the station in my first post using a Gateline consisting of just 2 WAG's!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hazel Grove has an interesting old barrier, which used to be controlled by the ticket office.

I remember this from an earlier thread! Looks like a weak barrier that can be stepped around though!
 

PR1Berske

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Blackpool North has gone from the ridiculous (no barriers at all) to the mental (a crowd of staff propping up any two functioning gates in a row of 6).

I like the current set up at Wigan NW whenever temporary ticket checks are put in place. I dread to think what the set up would be if they ever installed gates. It seems that the idea to put up a tressle table with a dozen staff near the automatic gates was thought faultless until someone had a :idea: moment.

"Is anyone checking the Parcelforce gates for passengers?"
"......Er...."
 

Ivo

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I quite like the Bath Spa setup actually, seems well organized, although may confuse people if they're using it for the first time!

Never used to be that way. We now have three gatelines, all of which have four gates for a total of 12, although only the south bank one is two-way. The previous setup was woefully inadequate - I think the new method is much better. Most people ignore the new entrances when the Ticket Office is closed though (myself included)...

I think each has four anyway :?
 
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wintonian

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Southampton Central/Portsmouth&S-Sea/Fareham/Havant/Bournemouth/Winchester?

There's also many busy stations down south that could do with Barriers, Weymouth, Poole, Fratton, Brockenhurst, Portsmouth Harbour!

Southampton Central, Portsmouth & Southsea, Bournemouth and Winchester are in operation all day from about 06:00 or so to sometime after the evening peak, about 21:00 - 22:00 for Southampton and 21:00 ish for Winchester - I have not noticed exactly.

As for Havant and Fareham I don't get off their too often but I'm reasonably sure Fareham is operational during the day.

Some of these would be difficult to do:

Poole
Plt 2 I suspect would block either the platform or encroach onto the public highway plus the attendant would get rather wet.

Plt 1 the space inside the ticket office/ waiting area is to restrictive without the loss of the shop or putting the barriers outside straddling the platform and car park.

Brockenhurst
Plt 4 demolition of the covered walkway could be done but again everyone and the equipment would get wet and the barrier has a good chance of blocking access to the car park.

Plt 1 I think is possible, possible widening of the pavement to allow access to ticket office and prevent blocking of bus stop may be needed. There may also be challenging issues with the swing bridge access.

Weymouth
Challenging with space limitation unless barriers are platform side but quite possible.

Fratton
could be done without too much bother, but may have to block of access to the platforms via the old foot bridge, which might upset those working at the depot so naturally will never happen. ;)

Portsmouth Harbour

You would prevent access to the ferry terminal for those without rail tickets somewhat upsetting Wightlink, although it may be possible to do a Reading and segregate the platform, but IMO that is a ridiculous idea.

Southampton Airport is one that I think is quite feasible and (if the TOC's are to be believed, which I don’t) could do with them.
 

trentside

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The barrier set up at Lincoln Central is alright at times, but when a large crowd of people want to exit, it can be quite a task to enter the platforms. There is a single gate behind the where the photo was taken from but I've learned my lesson using this - as it promptly ate the ticket and the barrier attendant was buried somewhere in a crowd of people.
 

Urban Gateline

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Southampton Central, Portsmouth & Southsea, Bournemouth and Winchester are in operation all day from about 06:00 or so to sometime after the evening peak, about 21:00 - 22:00 for Southampton and 21:00 ish for Winchester - I have not noticed exactly.

As for Havant and Fareham I don't get off their too often but I'm reasonably sure Fareham is operational during the day.

Some of these would be difficult to do:

Poole
Plt 2 I suspect would block either the platform or encroach onto the public highway plus the attendant would get rather wet.

Plt 1 the space inside the ticket office/ waiting area is to restrictive without the loss of the shop or putting the barriers outside straddling the platform and car park.

Brockenhurst
Plt 4 demolition of the covered walkway could be done but again everyone and the equipment would get wet and the barrier has a good chance of blocking access to the car park.

Plt 1 I think is possible, possible widening of the pavement to allow access to ticket office and prevent blocking of bus stop may be needed. There may also be challenging issues with the swing bridge access.

Weymouth
Challenging with space limitation unless barriers are platform side but quite possible.

Fratton
could be done without too much bother, but may have to block of access to the platforms via the old foot bridge, which might upset those working at the depot so naturally will never happen. ;)

Portsmouth Harbour

You would prevent access to the ferry terminal for those without rail tickets somewhat upsetting Wightlink, although it may be possible to do a Reading and segregate the platform, but IMO that is a ridiculous idea.

Southampton Airport is one that I think is quite feasible and (if the TOC's are to be believed, which I don’t) could do with them.

Thank you Wintonian, a very interesting analysis of how difficult it would be to gate those stations! I agree that some of them may not be feasible, just that the high passenger numbers seem to suggest that more rigorous ticket checking may be neeeded as I'm sure alot of revenue is lost from these stations!

With Portsmouth Harbour, how about barriering the Platforms only, there's quite a bit of space as you enter the Platform so I reckon it may work, thus leaving the ferry terminal still accessible to the public!

Also with Fratton, what you suggested about the depot staff can easily be resolved by issuing them barrier passes which would hardly inconvenience them compared to the revenue it would bring in!

With Southampton Airport Parkway, I got the impression that there are too many entrances, so they would have to close off a few to barrier the station!

Anyway these are all long distance stations, there are some in the SWT metro area which could do with Gatelines, like Hounslow, Barnes, Chiswick, Brentford, West Byfleet and Brookwood!
 

swt_passenger

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(And with regard to platform 19 at Waterloo, you still get people passing through this set of gates to get to and from 17 / 18 too.

I was told it was sized up to allow for P20 as well, but I'd also expect that whole area will be changed when the international platforms reopen, because they plan to bridge across the Eurostar entrance. Could even see more gates I suppose, if they keep them pro-rata to the rest of the station...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

With Portsmouth Harbour, how about barriering the Platforms only, there's quite a bit of space as you enter the Platform so I reckon it may work, thus leaving the ferry terminal still accessible to the public!

My idea would be to close Platform 1, and slew the relevant track across to Platform 2, assuming the support structure could accept it.
 
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wintonian

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Thank you Wintonian, a very interesting analysis of how difficult it would be to gate those stations! I agree that some of them may not be feasible, just that the high passenger numbers seem to suggest that more rigorous ticket checking may be neeeded as I'm sure alot of revenue is lost from these stations!

With Portsmouth Harbour, how about barriering the Platforms only, there's quite a bit of space as you enter the Platform so I reckon it may work, thus leaving the ferry terminal still accessible to the public!

Also with Fratton, what you suggested about the depot staff can easily be resolved by issuing them barrier passes which would hardly inconvenience them compared to the revenue it would bring in!

With Southampton Airport Parkway, I got the impression that there are too many entrances, so they would have to close off a few to barrier the station!

Anyway these are all long distance stations, there are some in the SWT metro area which could do with Gatelines, like Hounslow, Barnes, Chiswick, Brentford, West Byfleet and Brookwood!

The bridge at Fratton is also used as public footbridge meaning the barriers would have to be at the bottom of the stairs on both platforms
(too dangerous at the top) or if its not designated for non railway users threaten to close if off and fight the council.




I was told it was sized up to allow for P20 as well, but I'd also expect that whole area will be changed when the international platforms reopen, because they plan to bridge across the Eurostar entrance. Could even see more gates I suppose, if they keep them pro-rata to the rest of the station...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



My idea would be to close Platform 1, and slew the relevant track across to Platform 2, assuming the support structure could accept it.

But that would mean moving all the cabinets they put on 2 when they lifted the track to 1 where perhaps the track should have been lifted.

Wasn't there talk some time about reinstating plot 2 due to congestion?

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swt_passenger

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The bridge at Fratton is also used as public footbridge meaning the barriers would have to be at the bottom of the stairs on both platforms...

When they first opened the new footbridge they did a trial for a few weeks where the old footbridge was not used at all, so there are a number of ways round it. I guess the biggest issue is that passengers for 'North Southsea' :roll: arriving in the down direction just don't want to have to go out the main entrance then back over another footbridge.


But that would mean moving all the cabinets they put on 2 when they lifted the track to 1 where perhaps the track should have been lifted.

Wasn't there talk some time about reinstating plot 2 due to congestion?

It was looked at a few years ago, when they were doing the original SWML RUS, (mentioned in Appendix 8.3) but apparently the underlying structure cannot cope with both platforms being open - for all I know the gap between P1 and P3 is needed anyway to spread the load. At the same time, relocating any electrical cabinets isn't really insurmountable.
 

wintonian

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It was looked at a few years ago, when they were doing the original SWML RUS, (mentioned in Appendix 8.3) but apparently the underlying structure cannot cope with both platforms being open - for all I know the gap between P1 and P3 is needed anyway to spread the load. At the same time, relocating any electrical cabinets isn't really insurmountable.

True, I just don't want SWT to get any funny ideas about putting barriers in. ;)
 

Lampshade

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Hazel Grove has an interesting old barrier, which used to be controlled by the ticket office.

Bredbury and Brinnington have those as well.

I like the current set up at Wigan NW whenever temporary ticket checks are put in place. I dread to think what the set up would be if they ever installed gates. It seems that the idea to put up a tressle table with a dozen staff near the automatic gates was thought faultless until someone had a :idea: moment.

"Is anyone checking the Parcelforce gates for passengers?"
"......Er...."

I doubt any stations north of Crewe on the WCML could be gated without causing mayhem.
 

thelem

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Are these barriers actually in full operation now?

Yes, they are in operation and have lots of staff.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To be specific, this morning there were five staff manning the main exit gates (seven wide gates and three narrow and another two members of staff manning the gates in the ticket hall.
 

JonathanH

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Reigate platform 2 has a shockingly bad barrier application. One wide gate and one narrow gate has been fitted monitored remotely by one member of staff from the more sensible installation (1 wide, 2 narrow) on platform 1.

Maybe on passenger counts throughout the day the installation is reasonable but at peak times tailgating is rife and there is much use of the camera for manual entry. Someone trying to use the gates contra flow has no chance.

At Reading, the barriers on the footbridge are invariably open and it is an absolute joke that the staff go away at 2050 each evening. If gates are to be installed they should be operational first to last train seven days a week.
 

thelem

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If gates are to be installed they should be operational first to last train seven days a week.

Why? If the aim is revenue protection and in the evenings they cost more to man than they collect in extra revenue, then it makes sense to leave them open. Even just having them there will deter the casual fare dodger, as they won't know if they are manned or not.

I appreciate there are other reasons to install gates (e.g. reduce crime), but if they are costing the TOC money then they need to justify paying that cost for the benefit.
 

Urban Gateline

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Why? If the aim is revenue protection and in the evenings they cost more to man than they collect in extra revenue, then it makes sense to leave them open. Even just having them there will deter the casual fare dodger, as they won't know if they are manned or not.

I appreciate there are other reasons to install gates (e.g. reduce crime), but if they are costing the TOC money then they need to justify paying that cost for the benefit.

This is all very true, however I suspect that many people cotton on to the times when the Gatelines will be unmanned, and therefore chose exactly those times to travel without a valid ticket! It's not exactly rocket science to find out these operating times as you can see when the gates are opened up and its usually the same time day in and out, the occasional stings to catch early morning/late night fare evaders might be good, but I suspect TOC's don't like doing this as it's hard for their staff to get to work before the first train!

I certainly don't think gates need to be in operation at extreme times, but when you see that major stations such as Clapham and Waterloo open up at 10pm or thereabouts on weekdays it does seem too early, effectively all the revenue staff go home at this time too so it's a free for all on any services after this time, which there are quite a few!

I think Yorkie also mentioned in another thread, that remotely monitored Gatelines are a poor deterrent to persistent/hardcore fare evaders, I completely agree with this as it's much more of a deterrent to have a human standing there watching and stopping any tailgaters etc!
 

jon0844

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There's possibly an argument to have gates open at 10-11pm, as many people who went out may have bought a ticket and if a return is only 5 or 10p more, chances are many people would have a ticket on their return.

But gates closing at 8pm, especially on a Friday or Saturday night, seems a bit odd. There's a good chance you will get people starting their journey without a ticket.

Personally, I think that having the railway 'protected' until the last service means there's a good chance of keeping certain people off the railway, which benefits a lot of other passengers - including the chance that some people may use trains that currently avoid them.

Late night stings regularly get great results, so I'm surprised TOCs don't think it's cost effective to keep staff on later.
 
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