Strange TPE routeing from Glasgow on Tuesdays from December

[AndrewE]

I have noticed here
http://www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables/Dec19/timetable.php?table=1
that the 1205 Glasgow to Liverpool starts at 1144 and runs via Whifflet and various Mossend junctions on Tuesdays only!
I can see a lot of people missing that...

 

[Clip]

I have noticed here
http://www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables/Dec19/timetable.php?table=1
that the 1205 Glasgow to Liverpool starts at 1144 and runs via Whifflet and various Mossend junctions on Tuesdays only!
I can see a lot of people missing that...

Is that to keep up some route diversionary knowledge for their crews?

 

[Class 170101]

That is bizarre. If its for route knowledge purposes why not make it the same all week as it will be different train crew on a daily basis or secondly route 1M90 04:22 Glasgow Central to Manchester Airport this way and eliminate the long waits at Carstairs, Lockerbie and Carlisle? Or perhps run it on Saturdays which only happen once a week.

Noticing that the 04:22 seems to currently be missing in December Tuesday to Friday.

 

[AndrewE]

That is bizarre. If its for route knowledge purposes why not make it the same all week as it will be different train crew on a daily basis or secondly route 1M90 04:22 Glasgow Central to Manchester Airport this way and eliminate the long waits at Carstairs, Lockerbie and Carlisle? Or perhps run it on Saturdays which only happen once a week.

Noticing that the 04:22 seems to currently be missing in December Tuesday to Friday.

There's an 0422 MX as well as the MO in the timetable page I am looking at, but not on RTT (yet.) The MX seems to take 18 minutes longer to get to Carlisle, so maybe it does go that way too.

 

[JonathanH]

Needs to avoid a test train path that runs Tuesdays only from Glasgow Central through Motherwell.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H40769/2019-12-17/detailed

 

[AndrewE]

Needs to avoid a test train path that runs Tuesdays only from Glasgow Central through Motherwell.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H40769/2019-12-17/detailed

That's just great! Who needs passengers anyway?

 

[JonathanH]

That's just great! Who needs passengers anyway?

New services have to work around existing ones regardless of whether they are passenger or non-passenger ones.

 

[AndrewE]

W

New services have to work around existing ones regardless of whether they are passenger or non-passenger ones.

Well I hope that path is used every single week to justify b***ering up the passenger timetable.

 

[Ianno87]

That's just great! Who needs passengers anyway?

W

Well I hope that path is used every single week to justify b***ering up the passenger timetable.

Given most passengers on this service will likelt have pre-planned their journeys online and will be fully aware of the timetable, I fail to see the problem. No doubt there was no other way both services could be accommodated - unless you can demonstrate otherwise?

 

[The Planner]

W

Well I hope that path is used every single week to justify b***ering up the passenger timetable.

Test trains have as many rights as a passenger train, they are now often on the graph first. TPE could have disputed it if they didn't like it but more than likely saw the bigger picture.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's worse than that, looking at Glasgow-Liverpool on RTT (M-F).
The morning train runs via Carmyle, Holytown and Wishaw.
The mid-day train runs direct via Motherwell, except on Tuesdays when it does the same Carmyle circuit as the morning train.
The evening train runs via Holytown and Wishaw.
Northbound all Liverpool services run direct via Motherwell.

 

[Ianno87]

Test trains have as many rights as a passenger train, they are now often on the graph first. TPE could have disputed it if they didn't like it but more than likely saw the bigger picture.

And Test trains often are more non-standard in the routes they take, so are more difficult to get in, so justify being first in this respect

It's worse than that, looking at Glasgow-Liverpool on RTT (M-F).
The morning train runs via Carmyle, Holytown and Wishaw.
The mid-day train runs direct via Motherwell, except on Tuesdays when it does the same Carmyle circuit as the morning train.
The evening train runs via Holytown and Wishaw.
Northbound all Liverpool services run direct via Motherwell.

How is that 'worse'? It's actually creating in getting the fastest available path for the service in each hour, thus the best outcome for passengers.

The more trains get crammed onto the network, and insisting on having direct trains from everywhere to everywhere, the more things like that will be necessary.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Well, every time the Liverpool goes on its grand tour of Lanarkshire, it is overtaken by the following xx00 ICWC which gives about a 20 minute faster journey via Preston.
Even the direct (via Motherwell) mid-day train is slower than the adjacent Birmingham with a change at Preston.
Maybe paths will improve when TPE can provide its new stock consistently on the WCML.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

Got to wonder whether portion working off existing Manchester trains south of Preston would have been a better option for serving Liverpool? Could even have targeted the busier trains where a double unit might have been useful?

 

[Ianno87]

Well, every time the Liverpool goes on its grand tour of Lanarkshire, it is overtaken by the following xx00 ICWC which gives about a 20 minute faster journey via Preston.
Even the direct (via Motherwell) mid-day train is slower than the adjacent Birmingham with a change at Preston.
Maybe paths will improve when TPE can provide its new stock consistently on the WCML.

Pathing WCML services into Glasgow is, frankly a nightmare. They have to fit around a multitude of flat junction conflicts with Argyle Line services (e.g. Motherwell, Newton, Rutherglen, etc) - the Argyle line itself is carefully structured around flat junctions, single lines here there and everywhere, and paths through Partick to the benefit of many many more passengers across Glasgow than on 3 Liverpool-Glasgow services per day.