Strategic Steam Reserve Discussion

[deltic1989]

Ive seen mention several times on this forum about a Strategic Steam Reserve (SSR). This prompted me to do a little research on the subject i came across this wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_steam_reserve and other websites where people have claimed to be involved in the maintainence of locos in the SSR. The idea of the SSR as far as i can find out is that in the event of nuclear war EMP would render diesel and electric units useless, ChrisCooper also makes the exellent point in post 12 here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=45496 that points out that in the event of EMP the signalling would also be rendered inoperable. Now I'm not suggesting that if the SSR ever existed it would still exist today but I can see the point of such a thing the Cold War with the paranoia that the soviet uninon was going to start chucking nukes about (thankfully they diddnt) the government were going to start thinking of a way to transport goods without the need to use electicity and steam would be ideal. But also i think that the preservation movement would have saved enough steam locos to be an SSR in themselves making the need for a secret bunker at Box Tunnel or where ever irellevent. What do you guys think there are too many stories out there about this and "eyewitness" accounts for me to dismiss the idea without asking for opinions first.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

No such thing

 

[GNERman]

Another bl**dy one!!!

I think it is inevitable that a form as such exists, but much better hidden than in Box Tunnel. More likely a warehouse next to the A1 or something....

I believe that we have to have something in reserve in case of emergency, whether these be 9F's or something else...

But that could just be my imagination...?...

 

[Hydro]

There's all sorts of crap flying around about Box Tunnel. Box is adjacent to the site of Burlington, a huge underground command and control bunker built to house a Cold War government in the event of nuclear war. It was built in the stone quarries/mines underneath Corsham, and part of it was formerly an underground ammunition depot that had a railway line into it; this is the likely source of rumours of a secret connection from Box Tunnel into the bunkers.

Burlington and Corsham are very large, fascinating and fairly mysterious places - giving rise to all sorts of rumours and speculation. There are other parts of Corsham still in use by MoD contractors doing extremely sensitive work, rumoured to be control and software updating and development for the active Trident deterrent.

 

[deltic1989]

Forgot to add. I appreciate this has been probably done to death I'm just curious as to what people think.

Just run across this picture as well could be a photoshop but looks interesting. I;m not saying that if there ever was an SSR that it was in Box tunnel thats just where all the websites i've read indicate it as being stored. Ive also read about the Corsham bunker and am aware of Top Secret goings on there (naturally not the details).

 

[Yew]

I personally think they might have kept a reasonable amount of locomotives (say the 50=80 usually quoted) in servicable condition for 5-15 years. In order to cover for any massive problems in the new deisel fleets.

However after that, I think maybe 5-10 units will have been kept to train militiary personel if they where ever required to operate them in foreign countries (like in an aid situation)

I feel that when the SSR was scrapped (assuming it existed) it may have been left where it was stored (disused tunnels could have been sealed up like is often rumorued)

With respect to the old steam locos supposedbly in a side tunnel in the LUL. They could have been put there awaiting scrapping, and then left there as nobody could be bothered to move them.


The matte black locos with white numbers on the boilers where probably the SSR after abolishment, just waiting to be scrapped.

The repots of drivers having their units 'stolen' where most likely the government collecting the 'best' units for the ssr, not the ones that would have problems. (you always have some units that are much less lucky and everything breaks on them)

 

[ChrisCooper]

Of cource another issue against the SSR is that in the event of a full scale nuclear war the rail network would likely suffer massive damage, and there would not be the skilled and healthy population needed to repair and man it, plus the resources. The road network would suffer damage too, but due to it's extensive nature alternative routes would be much easier. Many vehicles don't need roads, and building basic roads or repairing existing ones enough to get through would be much easier than repairing or building railway lines.

If there was or is a SSR then the most likely use would be in the event of a war where the UK's oil supplies were cut off or restricted. There is plenty of coal and water around, and wood too, so it might come in handy, especially as what oil was available would have much better use in other areas such as fuel for the military and manufacturing (plastics, medicines etc).

 

[tbtc]

As we've found out in recent years, no Government is organised enough to keep things properly "secret".

Does anyone seriously think there's any chance that something this big could have been covered up without any leaks?

Nah... I can see why this story appeals to people who want to believe that all their favourite old steam engines are kept in store somewhere, but no chance

 

[E&W Lucas]

This myth has been comprehensively debunked many, many times.

The scrapping of the BR steam fleet is well documented, as is the fate of the WD locos.

A small number of austerity tank engines were evidently sold off in the 1960s. That was the extent of the Strategic Reserve.

 

[Hydro]

Forgot to add. I appreciate this has been probably done to death I'm just curious as to what people think.

Just run across this picture as well could be a photoshop but looks interesting. I;m not saying that if there ever was an SSR that it was in Box tunnel thats just where all the websites i've read indicate it as being stored. Ive also read about the Corsham bunker and am aware of Top Secret goings on there (naturally not the details).

That picture is of Farleigh Down tunnel, adjacent to Box. It led into the Monkton Farleigh ammunition depot constructed in the quarries.

 

[Train wasp]

Maybe within the next ten to twenty years there maybe a declassifying of top secret files containing information about SSR if it did exist.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Yes, yes there actually is a startegic steam reserve in this country. In fact its absolutely massive.

Just visit pretty much every heritage line in the country - they all seem to have a few fully operational steam locomotives!!

 

[deltic1989]

Yes, yes there actually is a startegic steam reserve in this country. In fact its absolutely massive.

Just visit pretty much every heritage line in the country - they all seem to have a few fully operational steam locomotives!!

*face palms* of course its been right in front of my face the whole time not behind a false wall in Box Tunnel

 

[60163]

If it'll take a nuclear war to get some regular steam on the main line, then bring it on! *throws egg at China*

 

[BestWestern]

With respect to the old steam locos supposedbly in a side tunnel in the LUL. They could have been put there awaiting scrapping, and then left there as nobody could be bothered to move them.

The matte black locos with white numbers on the boilers where probably the SSR after abolishment, just waiting to be scrapped.

The repots of drivers having their units 'stolen' where most likely the government collecting the 'best' units for the ssr, not the ones that would have problems. (you always have some units that are much less lucky and everything breaks on them)

This intrigues me, have I missed these posts? Who had their units nicked, are we talking steam loco's or LUL?! Explain, I'm, confused and curious!?

As for the whole concept of an SSR, can anybody explain why it would actually have been so top-secret? There are hundreds of different reasons a Government could have given for keeping a fleet of steamers, assuming the general public even cared enough to need a reason; why the assumption that there would have been secret bunkers and a huge cover-up??!

 

[brillopad]

It'd be an experience driving backwards for vast distances due to the complete lack of turntables too.

 

[LE Greys]

OK, if they really wanted a strategic steam reserve, they should have kept the 9Fs in service for their intended 40 years. Not only maintained, but operational, with plenty of skilled crews as well. Otherwise, just announce that you're giving them away free to any preservation society that can show a case for keeping them operational, they'd be snapped up.

Actually, how about the question of what to put in the strategic reserve? The 9Fs obviously, but what about some Austerities, and plenty of Hunslet shunters? Will we need passenger locos? If so, Britannias? Maybe some Black 5s as well?

I'd go for

All the double-chimney 9Fs, except Evening Star
20 Austerity 2-8-0s
20 Britannias
50 Black 5s/Standard 5s
50 Standard 4 tanks
50 Standard 2 2-6-0s
100 Hunslet Austerity shunters

 

[deltic1989]

This intrigues me, have I missed these posts? Who had their units nicked, are we talking steam loco's or LUL?! Explain, I'm, confused and curious!?

As for the whole concept of an SSR, can anybody explain why it would actually have been so top-secret? There are hundreds of different reasons a Government could have given for keeping a fleet of steamers, assuming the general public even cared enough to need a reason; why the assumption that there would have been secret bunkers and a huge cover-up??!

You make a good point there. I suppose that if the SSR does exist, (by starting this thread im not saying i agree or disagree with the idea, im on the fence) i would think that it would be kept a secret and the locos stored in bunkers not only to hide them from the British public but also from the 'enemy' so they would have no idea that The UK would still possably be able to function after a nuclear strike, underground bunkers hide things from spy satellites, and since (i read somewhere may not be entirely accurate) most of the Russians working in the UK during the Cold War were on the KGB pay roll, it would make sense to keep this kind of thing a secret.

 

[LE Greys]

It'd be an experience driving backwards for vast distances due to the complete lack of turntables too.

Standards run fine tender-first, that's why they have windows in the tender cab and cutouts at the side of the bunker. Just gets a bit unsteady with a fixed-wheelbase vehicle leading the formation, so speed might be restricted.

 

[BestWestern]

OK then, who wants to see some 'genuine' photos of our Strategic Reserve?? Seriously Well then, here, to fuel the conspiracy further, are a couple of pics from somebody who believes that they have found it! I don't know whether this is innocent misguided belief or just a hoax, as the photos could be from anywhere, but here they are.

This comes from an 'Urbex' (Urban Exploration) website. These guys essentially 'explore' places which are derelict and/or off limits. Obviously they end up in places where they shouldn't be, but there is much mention on the site that they aren't yobbo vandals and are merely curious about this type of place, simply taking a few photos; I can live with that. There are some quite amusing comments down the page, including the one about Elvis shunting them around!! He he

I've put a link in Gen Discussion with some other pics off the site of empty TMD's and so on. Here's the link for the stored steamers Anybody know where this really is??


http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=48594&highlight=strategic+reserve

 

[Hydro]

Photos of the Monkton Farleigh ammunition depot and some random photos of steam engines!

 

[TomJ93]

Should've just kept the A4s for this job!

 

[deltic1989]

OK then, who wants to see some 'genuine' photos of our Strategic Reserve?? Seriously Well then, here, to fuel the conspiracy further, are a couple of pics from somebody who believes that they have found it! I don't know whether this is innocent misguided belief or just a hoax, as the photos could be from anywhere, but here they are. From the site that it's been rather quietly posted on, I'd say that the photographer is being genuine about his discovery (cue much dismantling of the poor sod's crowning achievement!).

This comes from an 'Urbex' (Urban Exploration) website. These guys essentially 'explore' places which are derelict and/or off limits. Obviously they end up in places where they shouldn't be, but there is much mention on the site that they aren't yobbo vandals and are merely curious about this type of place, simply taking a few photos; I can live with that. There are some quite amusing comments down the page, including the one about Elvis shunting them around!! He he

I've put a link in Gen Discussion with some other pics off the site of empty TMD's and so on. Here's the link for the stored steamers Anybody know where this really is??


http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=48594&highlight=strategic+reserve

post #42 made me lol its on page 5. still the pics are good but with the amount of secrecy thats supposed to shroud the SSR how come these guys got out alive?

And I just got onto page 6 where these guys admitted that it was a hoax.

 

[BestWestern]

post #42 made me lol its on page 5. still the pics are good but with the amount of secrecy thats supposed to shroud the SSR how come these guys got out alive?

And I just got onto page 6 where these guys admitted that it was a hoax.

...oh, I didn't get that far!! Must read these things properly! Quite amusing though!!

Post #26 is also quite funny, "Access is easy, but you have to keep the noise down, as there is a big room next door where they are doing autopsies on aliens."

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

*face palms* of course its been right in front of my face the whole time not behind a false wall in Box Tunnel

I know its absolutely ludicrous mate is'nt it. Ive heard some daft conspirecy theories applied to all sorts of scenarios but the 'Strategic Steam Reserve' just takes the biscuit!!

I rest my case.

 

[Yew]

This intrigues me, have I missed these posts? Who had their units nicked, are we talking steam loco's or LUL?! Explain, I'm, confused and curious!?

As for the whole concept of an SSR, can anybody explain why it would actually have been so top-secret? There are hundreds of different reasons a Government could have given for keeping a fleet of steamers, assuming the general public even cared enough to need a reason; why the assumption that there would have been secret bunkers and a huge cover-up??!

When I first heared about it, i put Strategic steam reserve into google, and there came up reports of drivers being sent home hlafway through a shift on full days pay, then coming in the next day with their loco gone.


There was a report from 2004 about a LUL staff member overseening some work in a side tunnel, full of old steam locos boarded up.

 

[Greenback]

The internet is full of conspiracy theories, wind ups, and downright lies!

 

[Gareth Marston]

The internet is full of conspiracy theories, wind ups, and downright lies!

Yes theres ATOC's website for a start - some wild claims on that.

 

[ChrisCooper]

What we really want is the Southern Region version of the SSR, the Strategic Slammer Reserve. Tunnels and bunkers full of CIGs, VEPs, CEPs, EPBs etc!

 

[Darandio]

Yes theres ATOC's website for a start - some wild claims on that.

The whole idea does raise some thought though. What I need to do, is relocate and live in a tent near the tunnel mouth. Then, when the bombs are launched, I run in the tunnel and preserve my safety. Then, after several months, when things have died down and radiation levels allow it, I go back outside, set the tent back up and await the inevitable steam trains leaving the tunnel, an ideal photo opportunity. Anyone want to join me?