Strike & Delay Repay

[Leisurefirst]

Hi,
Grateful for advice please.

Booked two Off-Peak Returns with LNER site from Glasgow QS to Oban.
Outward Sat 18th Jun.
Was delayed on the Lowlander from London, arrived at Oban some four and a half hours late.
Was sent Delay Repay e-mail from Caledonian Sleeper.
Contacted them explaining needed to claim for whole journey from London to Oban.
Advised to email pics of GLQ to and tickets and explain.
Awaiting reply.

Return was due to be on Sat 25th from Oban to Queen Street.
All services cancelled due to strike.
We are booked in Citylink instead as we have to travel that day.
Asked LNER via Twitter DM who to claim for unused return portions with.
Was told Scotrail Delay Repay.
Did so and have now received failed claim email back from them.
Called them and was advised should be from LNER as I bought from them.

Questions-
Firstly, who is correct please?

Secondly, I believe I am entitled to a refund the whole of the tickets due to the long delay outward and no service on return.
Should CS be refunding 50% and Scotrail or LNER (whichever) 50%?

Oban ticket office suggested the refund on the unused returns would be the difference between a single and the return rather than half?
I would have thought CS should refund the outward in full and therefore the rest by Scotrail/LNER but what if they refund 50% and Scotrail/LNER the difference between single & return?

Confused, sorry!

 

[AlterEgo]

Delay repay for the outward leg as you made the journey by rail. Caledonian Sleeper should pay this.

Refund from the retailer for the second leg as you did not make the journey by rail but instead abandoned it.

 

[Watershed]

Hi,
Grateful for advice please.

Booked two Off-Peak Returns with LNER site from Glasgow QS to Oban.
Outward Sat 18th Jun.
Was delayed on the Lowlander from London, arrived at Oban some four and a half hours late.
Was sent Delay Repay e-mail from Caledonian Sleeper.
Contacted them explaining needed to claim for whole journey from London to Oban.
Advised to email pics of GLQ to and tickets and explain.
Awaiting reply.

Return was due to be on Sat 25th from Oban to Queen Street.
All services cancelled due to strike.
We are booked in Citylink instead as we have to travel that day.
Asked LNER via Twitter DM who to claim for unused return portions with.
Was told Scotrail Delay Repay.
Did so and have now received failed claim email back from them.
Called them and was advised should be from LNER as I bought from them.

Questions-
Firstly, who is correct please?

Secondly, I believe I am entitled to a refund the whole of the tickets due to the long delay outward and no service on return.
Should CS be refunding 50% and Scotrail or LNER (whichever) 50%?

Oban ticket office suggested the refund on the unused returns would be the difference between a single and the return rather than half?
I would have thought CS should refund the outward in full and therefore the rest by Scotrail/LNER but what if they refund 50% and Scotrail/LNER the difference between single & return?

Confused, sorry!

As the delay on your outward journey was 120+ mins, Caledonian Sleeper owe you compensation of 100% of the combined value of your tickets for the Sleeper, including any berth supplement, and day train.

For the return journey, you have the right to choose between a refund (which would be claimed from the retailer, LNER in this case), or to reclaim your reasonable costs of rebooking yourself on Citylink (which would be claimed from the TOC that operated the train you were intending to take, i.e. ScotRail).

I would go for the latter option, because it is undefined how much of a refund you're entitled to when you use one portion of a return (the retailer may argue it is just the difference between the cost of the single and return). It is particularly murky how this interacts with a claim for delay compensation, seeing as that is based on the ticket price.

I would expect some pushback though, because ScotRail may try and claim they're not obliged to pay anything on a strike day. The calling of a strike doesn't reduce your rights or their obligations (assuming you had already booked before the timetable was in place), but that won't stop them from likely trying it on anyway.

 

[Haywain]

Hi,
Grateful for advice please.

Booked two Off-Peak Returns with LNER site from Glasgow QS to Oban.
Outward Sat 18th Jun.
Was delayed on the Lowlander from London, arrived at Oban some four and a half hours late.
Was sent Delay Repay e-mail from Caledonian Sleeper.
Contacted them explaining needed to claim for whole journey from London to Oban.
Advised to email pics of GLQ to and tickets and explain.
Awaiting reply.

Return was due to be on Sat 25th from Oban to Queen Street.
All services cancelled due to strike.
We are booked in Citylink instead as we have to travel that day.
Asked LNER via Twitter DM who to claim for unused return portions with.
Was told Scotrail Delay Repay.
Did so and have now received failed claim email back from them.
Called them and was advised should be from LNER as I bought from them.

Questions-
Firstly, who is correct please?

Secondly, I believe I am entitled to a refund the whole of the tickets due to the long delay outward and no service on return.
Should CS be refunding 50% and Scotrail or LNER (whichever) 50%?

Oban ticket office suggested the refund on the unused returns would be the difference between a single and the return rather than half?
I would have thought CS should refund the outward in full and therefore the rest by Scotrail/LNER but what if they refund 50% and Scotrail/LNER the difference between single & return?

Confused, sorry!

I might be missing something but what has the Lowland Sleeper got to do with a journey from Glasgow to Oban? Was it a longer journey using split tickets?

 

[Leisurefirst]

Delay repay for the outward leg as you made the journey by rail. Caledonian Sleeper should pay this.

Refund from the retailer for the second leg as you did not make the journey by rail but instead abandoned it.

Thank you, yes LNER twitter confirmed this as well earlier.

I might be missing something but what has the Lowland Sleeper got to do with a journey from Glasgow to Oban? Was it a longer journey using split tickets?

Yes, journey started on the Sleeper the previous evening (or not as we left at 01:14).

As the delay on your outward journey was 120+ mins, Caledonian Sleeper owe you compensation of 100% of the combined value of your tickets for the Sleeper, including any berth supplement, and day train.

For the return journey, you have the right to choose between a refund (which would be claimed from the retailer, LNER in this case), or to reclaim your reasonable costs of rebooking yourself on Citylink (which would be claimed from the TOC that operated the train you were intending to take, i.e. ScotRail).

I would go for the latter option, because it is undefined how much of a refund you're entitled to when you use one portion of a return (the retailer may argue it is just the difference between the cost of the single and return). It is particularly murky how this interacts with a claim for delay compensation, seeing as that is based on the ticket price.

I would expect some pushback though, because ScotRail may try and claim they're not obliged to pay anything on a strike day. The calling of a strike doesn't reduce your rights or their obligations (assuming you had already booked before the timetable was in place), but that won't stop them from likely trying it on anyway.

Thank you for this, much appreciated.
LNER got back to me in the meantime and confirmed to claim with them so I did (unfortunately as it turns out as the Citylink tickets are about double what I'll probably get back from LNER.)
They say they will only pay the difference between the return fares and the single fares.
Initially they told me this would be nothing as the singles were less than the returns.
This seemed odd and I double checked...
Two singles (with 2T railcard) are £37.20, the returns £56.10.
It would appear they did not apply the railcard discount when looking up the singles.
So... my further question (sorry) is if LNER are going to refund me £18.90, leaving me paying £37.20 for two singles, should Caledonian Sleeper refund me £37.20 plus the Sleeper fare or will they as I suspect just refund me £28.05 (half the return) plus the Sleeper fare?

 

[Haywain]

Yes, journey started on the Sleeper the previous evening (or not as we left at 01:14).

So your claim Delay Repay claim should be for the whole journey, not just Glasgow to Oban.

 

[Watershed]

Thank you for this, much appreciated.
LNER got back to me in the meantime and confirmed to claim with them so I did (unfortunately as it turns out as the Citylink tickets are about double what I'll probably get back from LNER.)
They say they will only pay the difference between the return fares and the single fares.

If the claim hasn't already been processed you could ask them to cancel it and instead proceed with recovering the Citylink tickets from ScotRail.

This is unfortunately exactly what I anticipated might happen; the problem is that there isn't a defined entitlement to a 50% refund. Internal industry guidance suggests that should be the refund, but you are reliant on an argument of quantum meruit, or to put it in layman's terms, what a reasonable price would constitute for the outward journey.

Presumably you could have bought an Advance ticket for rather less than the single they're basing your refund on, or you might not have travelled by rail at all if that had been the price on offer.

So... my further question (sorry) is if LNER are going to refund me £18.90, leaving me paying £37.20 for two singles, should Caledonian Sleeper refund me £37.20 plus the Sleeper fare or will they as I suspect just refund me £28.05 (half the return) plus the Sleeper fare?

I doubt that CS will be aware of the LNER refund and will probably therefore process your Delay Repay claim as if it hadn't happened. But as I said in my original message, this is where it gets rather messy. If LNER refund you down to the cost of a single then this is what compensation should be based on though - it is about the fare paid (net of refund, in this case).

 

[Leisurefirst]

If the claim hasn't already been processed you could ask them to cancel it and instead proceed with recovering the Citylink tickets from ScotRail.

This is unfortunately exactly what I anticipated might happen; the problem is that there isn't a defined entitlement to a 50% refund. Internal industry guidance suggests that should be the refund, but you are reliant on an argument of quantum meruit, or to put it in layman's terms, what a reasonable price would constitute for the outward journey.

Presumably you could have bought an Advance ticket for rather less than the single they're basing your refund on, or you might not have travelled by rail at all if that had been the price on offer.


I doubt that CS will be aware of the LNER refund and will probably therefore process your Delay Repay claim as if it hadn't happened. But as I said in my original message, this is where it gets rather messy. If LNER refund you down to the cost of a single then this is what compensation should be based on though - it is about the fare paid (net of refund, in this case).

Thank you, I really appreciate your time & response.