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Stupidly gave fake details

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Anoymous

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So yesterday I was going to get on a replacement bus and had a child ticket, I’m only 17 and everyone I know buys child tickets(teachers have even told us to do so on school trips) so I honestly didn’t think anything of it. I was wearing my work uniform at the time and the man asked me my age, I panicked and said 16.

He then took me inside the station and asked my details, I gave him a fake name and d.o.b and an old address, I have access to the old address and intend to pay the fine no matter the price.

Does anyone know if they will send the fine to the address ? moreover, as I was wearing my work uniform will they contact my employer and figure it I gave a fake name ?

I’m aware a criminal record is the outcome if I’m caught but in the moment I was hysterical and crying out of pure shock. The man was not a typical ticket inspector and didn’t have one the electric machines he just wrote it down in a little note book and he didn’t give me any paperwork when he let me go.

Does anyone have any idea what the usual course of action is and if so could you please advise me. I’m aware what I’ve done is wrong and want to pay the fine I’m honestly just fearful my entire life will be ruined over a couple of pounds
 
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yorkie

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So yesterday I was going to get on a replacement bus and had a child ticket, I’m only 17 and everyone I know buys child tickets(teachers have even told us to do so on school trips)
There are (or at least were) certain circumstances in which 17 year olds can use child tickets as part of a group. It's not relevant to your situation but may explain your experience.

He then took me inside the station and asked my details, I gave him a fake name and d.o.b and an old address, I have access to the old address and intend to pay the fine no matter the price.
If you were not charged a Penalty Fare, and you had your details taken, then a possible outcome is that you will either be told you are being prosecuted or you will be invited to pay an out of court settlement to avoid the matter going to court.

When do you turn 18? Is it within 6 months of the offence having taken place?

Which train operator took your details?

At present we do not have sufficient information to advise, but once you provide more information and let us know what the letter says (when it arrives) we will have a much better idea as to what could happen next.
 

Deepgreen

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I hope you get a favourable outcome, but, be aware that the railway is not a free service and, as with anything else, needs to be paid for. It's a worry that your panic led you to produce such a string of lies as your 'default'. There's a lesson to be learned here (yes, boring perhaps) - just be honest and make your fair contribution to society and you will be stress-free and feel much the better for it. My advice is to respond to any follow-up with honesty and open-ness. BTW, if you're now 17, presumably the teachers on school trips told you to buy child tickets when you were 16? Therefore they weren't advising you to do this at 17, having left school, which would be wrong.
 

Anoymous

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There are (or at least were) certain circumstances in which 17 year olds can use child tickets as part of a group. It's not relevant to your situation but may explain your experience.


If you were not charged a Penalty Fare, and you had your details taken, then a possible outcome is that you will either be told you are being prosecuted or you will be invited to pay an out of court settlement to avoid the matter going to court.

When do you turn 18? Is it within 6 months of the offence having taken place?

Which train operator took your details?

At present we do not have sufficient information to advise, but once you provide more information and let us know what the letter says (when it arrives) we will have a much better idea as to what could happen next.
I was using the C2C services and he said that they’ll send a letter telling me to explain what happened and I’ll be prosecuted if I don’t reply to it. Will they come to my work place ??

I hope you get a favourable outcome, but, be aware that the railway is not a free service and, as with anything else, needs to be paid for. It's a worry that your panic led you to produce such a string of lies as your 'default'. There's a lesson to be learned here (yes, boring perhaps) - just be honest and make your fair contribution to society and you will be stress-free and feel much the better for it. My advice is to respond to any follow-up with honesty and open-ness. BTW, if you're now 17, presumably the teachers on school trips told you to buy child tickets when you were 16? Therefore they weren't advising you to do this at 17, having left school, which would be wrong.
I didn’t do it with the intention of the railway being free I’ve just always bought child tickets hence it was the norm for me to do. I’m still in school

I was using the C2C services and he said that they’ll send a letter telling me to explain what happened and I’ll be prosecuted if I don’t reply to it. Will they come to my work place ??
I turn 18 in 10 months
 
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yorkie

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I merged your replies into one (you can reply to multiple quotes in one post; you can also edit posts) to keep the thread tidy.

They really ought not to be prosecuting an Under 18, but it depends on the company policy (they can legally prosecute you).

I'd wait for the letter; let us know what they say.
 

Anoymous

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I merged your replies into one (you can reply to multiple quotes in one post; you can also edit posts) to keep the thread tidy.

They really ought not to be prosecuting an Under 18, but it depends on the company policy (they can legally prosecute you).

I'd wait for the letter; let us know what they say.
The guy who took my details said I’ll have to explain when the letter comes and I did request a fine several times. If they rigour out I gave false details will they go to my workplace to find me ??
 

30907

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From many years of reading these threads I don't remember Revenue Protection making visits to workplaces, or even of contact being made with workplaces. I doubt that they have the legal right to do so. So I think you can delete that from your list of worries.
 

Peter Sarf

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From many years of reading these threads I don't remember Revenue Protection making visits to workplaces, or even of contact being made with workplaces. I doubt that they have the legal right to do so. So I think you can delete that from your list of worries.

They would probably only refer to your workplace if you refused to pay the fine. They could then apply for an attachment to earnings. I know that sort of thing is done when people neglect to pay their loan. I am not so sure about fines. But as you wish to pay the fine then attachment to earnings is irrelevant.

One thing to watch is a desire to pay back what is owed or pay a fine can be seen as an admission of guilt. It is the least damaging and straight forward way to proceed though. If you fight it and then get found guilty you would be in for a more severe punishment.

Serves as a reminder to all of us to be careful. Its easy to be a bit weak but think of the consequences.

And good luck. You have probably learnt your lesson and that is all that needs to happen - no need for anything more severe one hopes. In the meantime don't let the worry make you do anything "stupid".
 

6Gman

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The guy who took my details said I’ll have to explain when the letter comes and I did request a fine several times. If they rigour out I gave false details will they go to my workplace to find me ??

On a point of accuracy you cannot request a "fine" - they are issued by a Court. You may have asked for it to be settled by a Penalty Fare but these are normally issued for mistakes. Buying a child ticket that you're not entitled to is not considered a mistake but a deliberate act.

You then compounded matters by giving false details.

The normal advice is to wait for the letter and then to respond (and there are people on here who can advise on how to respond). But can you be certain that you will actually see the letter if it's not going to come to your home address? And how are you planning to reply to a letter addressed to a different name?
 

_toommm_

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Might I add that if you regularly get the train, there are railcards out there. In particular, the 16-17 Saver entitles you to 50% off adult fares (i.e. the equivalent of child fares), along with 50% off season tickets. Once you turn 18, you can apply for a 16-25 railcard which gets you 33% off (subject to a minimum fare of £12 before 10am Monday to Friday with some non-applicables). The Railcards are £30 each, and I'll link their respective websites below:

 

Anoymous

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From many years of reading these threads I don't remember Revenue Protection making visits to workplaces, or even of contact being made with workplaces. I doubt that they have the legal right to do so. So I think you can delete that from your list of worries.
I see, I’m just worried they would go to my workplace with my picture from CCTV to ascertain my real details. Is this something they would do or is it unheard of ?
 

Anoymous

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They would probably only refer to your workplace if you refused to pay the fine. They could then apply for an attachment to earnings. I know that sort of thing is done when people neglect to pay their loan. I am not so sure about fines. But as you wish to pay the fine then attachment to earnings is irrelevant.

One thing to watch is a desire to pay back what is owed or pay a fine can be seen as an admission of guilt. It is the least damaging and straight forward way to proceed though. If you fight it and then get found guilty you would be in for a more severe punishment.

Serves as a reminder to all of us to be careful. Its easy to be a bit weak but think of the consequences.

And good luck. You have probably learnt your lesson and that is all that needs to happen - no need for anything more severe one hopes. In the meantime don't let the worry make you do anything "stupid".
I understand, they only “confirmation” they have of where I work is that I was wearing a top which has my workplaces name on it at the time of being stopped. Would this be valid ground for them to attend my workplace ? I do wish to pay the fine I’m simply frightened that they won’t send one
 

Anoymous

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On a point of accuracy you cannot request a "fine" - they are issued by a Court. You may have asked for it to be settled by a Penalty Fare but these are normally issued for mistakes. Buying a child ticket that you're not entitled to is not considered a mistake but a deliberate act.

You then compounded matters by giving false details.

The normal advice is to wait for the letter and then to respond (and there are people on here who can advise on how to respond). But can you be certain that you will actually see the letter if it's not going to come to your home address? And how are you planning to reply to a letter addressed to a different name?
It was honestly just something done without thinking, when buying the ticket I wasn’t thinking of fare evasion or anything like that it just seemed the normal thing to do. If they consider it a deliberate do you have any idea what the course of action would be ?
Yes I will be able to access the letter from the address I gave for it and in my head I thought I would just be able to pay whatever fine they gave me by postal service and maintain my identity
 

Brissle Girl

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It was honestly just something done without thinking, when buying the ticket I wasn’t thinking of fare evasion or anything like that it just seemed the normal thing to do.
Can I just clarify exactly what your thought process was here. Was it that a) you didn't realise you had to buy an adult ticket , or b) you thought buying a child ticket even though you weren't entitled to it was "normal" because "everyone does it"? It's not clear to me, and may be relevant if you end up getting into a more difficult discussion with the railway company, as they are completely different mindsets, which may provoke different responses.

Giving an incorrect name and address is itself an offence, which, if it becomes apparent, is also likely to colour the authorities' judgement as to your general intent and attitude. I would suggest that if there is any more interaction other than you simply paying off a penalty fare or settlement, it is likely to come to their attention.
 

Anoymous

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Can I just clarify exactly what your thought process was here. Was it that a) you didn't realise you had to buy an adult ticket , or b) you thought buying a child ticket even though you weren't entitled to it was "normal" because "everyone does it"? It's not clear to me, and may be relevant if you end up getting into a more difficult discussion with the railway company, as they are completely different mindsets, which may provoke different responses.

Giving an incorrect name and address is itself an offence, which, if it becomes apparent, is also likely to colour the authorities' judgement as to your general intent and attitude. I would suggest that if there is any more interaction other than you simply paying off a penalty fare or settlement, it is likely to come to their attention.
It was a bit of a culmination of A&B to be honest with you, I had no idea I was committing fraud buying a child ticket
 

ForTheLoveOf

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I'm struggling to see why everyone is making such worrying remarks. I don't see that this is a matter within the purview of railway law at all. Although rail replacement bus services are provided so that train operators comply with their obligations to ticket-holders, they are not subject to the Railway Byelaws. Neither do Penalty Fares or the Regulation of Railways Act apply. These would be the three typical pieces of law under which fares offences are dealt with.

In essence, AFAICT they would have to (civilly) sue you if they wanted any recourse in this situation. Alternatively they would have to prosecute for fraud or for (arguable) breach of the Passenger Services Vehicles Regulations. Train companies do not normally do any of these things (certainly not for a minor incident like this); it is just not within their processes, and even less so as you are a child. They are geared up for prosecutions under the Byelaws or RoRA.

That being the case, any settlement offered (which might appear to be a "fine" at first glance) would have to be closely analysed to determine whether there is even any point agreeing to it. Depending on what they propose to do, it may be the case that, as with so many other cases we have heard on this forum, they are barking up the wrong tree. Frankly, I am surprised they bothered bringing out RPIs at all for RRBs...

So, your life isn't over at all. What you did was wrong but it doesn't seem the operator has much recourse (that they will exercise) here. I strongly doubt they will contact your employer; again, that is not something that is within their normal investigative processes. Just don't do it again, and get yourself a 16-17 Saver so that you can legitimately pay half price (although you should of course get 16-17 discounted tickets, not child ones!).
 

Anoymous

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I'm struggling to see why everyone is making such worrying remarks. I don't see that this is a matter within the purview of railway law at all. Although rail replacement bus services are provided so that train operators comply with their obligations to ticket-holders, they are not subject to the Railway Byelaws. Neither do Penalty Fares or the Regulation of Railways Act apply. These would be the three typical pieces of law under which fares offences are dealt with.

In essence, AFAICT they would have to (civilly) sue you if they wanted any recourse in this situation. Alternatively they would have to prosecute for fraud or for (arguable) breach of the Passenger Services Vehicles Regulations. Train companies do not normally do any of these things (certainly not for a minor incident like this); it is just not within their processes, and even less so as you are a child. They are geared up for prosecutions under the Byelaws or RoRA.

That being the case, any settlement offered (which might appear to be a "fine" at first glance) would have to be closely analysed to determine whether there is even any point agreeing to it. Depending on what they propose to do, it may be the case that, as with so many other cases we have heard on this forum, they are barking up the wrong tree. Frankly, I am surprised they bothered bringing out RPIs at all for RRBs...

So, your life isn't over at all. What you did was wrong but it doesn't seem the operator has much recourse (that they will exercise) here. I strongly doubt they will contact your employer; again, that is not something that is within their normal investigative processes. Just don't do it again, and get yourself a 16-17 Saver so that you can legitimately pay half price (although you should of course get 16-17 discounted tickets, not child ones!).
Wow thank you so much for the advice it is greatly appreciated. I have been worried sick not being able to eat or sleep for fear of what is to come.
I have already applied for a saved to avoid this ever happening again and will happily buy adult tickets until it’s sorted out. I have no issue paying a penalty fare as I can accept I have done something wrong but that’s one of the reasons I was so shocked, I hadn’t even gotten on the bus or used the ticket yet.
My biggest concern is that they’ll some how track me down as my work top has its name in big bold letters, do you know if this is something they would do ? I want to resolve it under the fake name I gave to make up for their loss of revenue but I’m scared they’ll find me, I’m not sure how they usually track people down but they have no information on me other than where I work
 

Fawkes Cat

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My biggest concern is that they’ll some how track me down as my work top has its name in big bold letters, do you know if this is something they would do ? I want to resolve it under the fake name I gave to make up for their loss of revenue but I’m scared they’ll find me, I’m not sure how they usually track people down but they have no information on me other than where I work
Realistically, they're not going to pursue you like this. Stop worrying about that point.

There are two things that are likely to happen next: either
1) The railway look at the notes they have taken, and decide not to follow things up, or
2) You are sent a letter asking for further information.

For (1), you probably need to allow seven months or so* before you can be certain that nothing more will happen. So you'll have to keep checking whatever the contact address was that you gave the railway for that long.

For (2), if you are lucky then the request will be for you to make a payment to settle matters out of court. Given that you are worried about having given a fake name I think you would be very well advised to make the payment asked for at the first time of asking#. If you want to make any other response, then you will have to tell them who you really are: I don't think that morally we can suggest that you should lie (or continue to lie), and as @Brissle Girl has explained above, giving false details is an offence - we certainly can't advise you to carry on committing an offence.

But on the facts that you have given us (child fare when an adult fare should have been paid, false name and address) the maximum penalty you will face will be a fine (plus court costs, plus prosecution costs, plus compensation to the railway for the fare dodged). You will not go to prison. People will only come after you if you don't pay the fine and costs.

*Technical explanation of the 'seven months or so': if the railways choose to prosecute you, they don't have to ask for your side of the story although they normally do, but they do have to get the case to court in six months of the incident taking place - and then the court needs to get in touch with you, which could take a few weeks. Six months + a few weeks = seven months or so.

#I also think that I should add here that I am very unhappy to say this. My personal view is that you should be clear as to who you are, whether matters go further or not. I do not like suggesting what you might get away with. It may well be that there are other contributors to this forum who have a different view.
 

Anoymous

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Realistically, they're not going to pursue you like this. Stop worrying about that point.

There are two things that are likely to happen next: either
1) The railway look at the notes they have taken, and decide not to follow things up, or
2) You are sent a letter asking for further information.

For (1), you probably need to allow seven months or so* before you can be certain that nothing more will happen. So you'll have to keep checking whatever the contact address was that you gave the railway for that long.

For (2), if you are lucky then the request will be for you to make a payment to settle matters out of court. Given that you are worried about having given a fake name I think you would be very well advised to make the payment asked for at the first time of asking#. If you want to make any other response, then you will have to tell them who you really are: I don't think that morally we can suggest that you should lie (or continue to lie), and as @Brissle Girl has explained above, giving false details is an offence - we certainly can't advise you to carry on committing an offence.

But on the facts that you have given us (child fare when an adult fare should have been paid, false name and address) the maximum penalty you will face will be a fine (plus court costs, plus prosecution costs, plus compensation to the railway for the fare dodged). You will not go to prison. People will only come after you if you don't pay the fine and costs.

*Technical explanation of the 'seven months or so': if the railways choose to prosecute you, they don't have to ask for your side of the story although they normally do, but they do have to get the case to court in six months of the incident taking place - and then the court needs to get in touch with you, which could take a few weeks. Six months + a few weeks = seven months or so.

#I also think that I should add here that I am very unhappy to say this. My personal view is that you should be clear as to who you are, whether matters go further or not. I do not like suggesting what you might get away with. It may well be that there are other contributors to this forum who have a different view.
Thank you for your contribution, my fear is that they’ll find my real identity however, given that all they know is where I work if they took that down do you know if this often happens to people ? And if I just ignore it what will happen ? I want to reply from the other address but I’m scared I’ll get myself in more trouble if I do
 

6Gman

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I'm struggling to see why everyone is making such worrying remarks. I don't see that this is a matter within the purview of railway law at all. Although rail replacement bus services are provided so that train operators comply with their obligations to ticket-holders, they are not subject to the Railway Byelaws. Neither do Penalty Fares or the Regulation of Railways Act apply.

This is an interesting view, and I have no idea whether it is correct or not.

Do any of our experts on here have any comment?
 

furlong

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This is an interesting view, and I have no idea whether it is correct or not.
Well look at the law and decide for yourself, for example:

RAILWAY BYELAWS
Made under Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Rail Authority (the “Authority”) and confirmed under Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Secretary of State for Transport on 22 June 2005 for regulating the use and working of, and travel on or by means of, railway assets, the maintenance of order on railway assets and the conduct of all persons while on railway assets (the “Byelaws”).
...
18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas
(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.
...
railway” means the railway assets of, or under the management of, an Operator;
railway assets” means any
(a) train;
(b) network;
(c) station;
(d) light maintenance depot;
and any associated track, buildings and equipment;
...
train” means any item of rolling stock and includes any carriage, wagon or locomotive;
 

Fawkes Cat

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Well look at the law and decide for yourself, for example:

train” means any item of rolling stock and includes any carriage, wagon or locomotive;

Buses roll...

If we need to discuss this point is it worth taking it into a separate thread lest we confuse the advice we're giving the OP?
 

AndyPJG

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.....I want to resolve it under the fake name I gave to make up for their loss of revenue but I’m scared they’ll find me, I’m not sure how they usually track people down but they have no information on me other than where I work

That statement worries me as to your attitude to society.
 

Anoymous

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This is an interesting view, and I have no idea whether it is correct or not.

Do any of our experts on here have any comment?
That statement worries me as to your attitude to society.
My attitude to society is not negative I am willing to do my part, in buying a child ticket I didn’t think I was doing anything wrong and it’s not a mistake I will EVER make again. In the moment I panicked at the prospect of ruining my life and gave fake details I still want to compensate the company hence I want to resolve the matter under the details given
 

Tazi Hupefi

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I don't see that the railway specific law can be used. However, CPS say this:


Fare Evasion
There will often be a choice between specific legislation relating to the form of transport, and proceedings under the Theft Act 1978, or Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981. See the Fraud Act 2006 and Forgery and Counterfeiting, elsewhere in the Legal Guidance.


I think that's a bit out of date, because many provisions of Theft Act were replaced by the Fraud Act.

In my view, this would be a simple Section 6(2) Fraud Act case. Possession of an article for the use in fraud. Pretty good case for a "false representation" offence as well.

I think some of you on here are blinded by "railway" legislation, when there's often a choice. That said, I doubt a 17 year old will be prosecuted.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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I don't see that the railway specific law can be used. However, CPS say this:


Fare Evasion
There will often be a choice between specific legislation relating to the form of transport, and proceedings under the Theft Act 1978, or Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981. See the Fraud Act 2006 and Forgery and Counterfeiting, elsewhere in the Legal Guidance.


I think that's a bit out of date, because many provisions of Theft Act were replaced by the Fraud Act.

In my view, this would be a simple Section 6(2) Fraud Act case. Possession of an article for the use in fraud. Pretty good case for a "false representation" offence as well.

I think some of you on here are blinded by "railway" legislation, when there's often a choice. That said, I doubt a 17 year old will be prosecuted.
Indeed, I alluded to this in my reply. However, as you state, OP is just 17, and is unlikely to be 18 before it goes to Court - this is relevant as you are tried under the procedures applying to your age at the time of trial, not your age at the time of the offence. Accordingly any prosecution is highly unlikely in the first place.

It would take some very unusual circumstances for the railway to allege this to be fraud, when OP could give any number of explanations - they thought that "child" means the same for railway ticketing as it does in the general legal sense, for instance. The railway doesn't help itself in this respect, either, given that conventional ticket stock doesn't clearly define what a "child" is (I know some more modern stock states "under 16 year old, which still leaves some ambiguity for a 16 year old).
 

MotCO

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I am concerned about continuing the lie as to the correct name of the OP. Given the incident took place yesterday, should the OP contact the Train Operating Company to correct this and their address, explaining that he/she panicked and didn't want his/her employer to find out what he/she had done. On reflection he/she realises this was wrong and wants to set the record straight at the earliest possibly opportunity?

I realise that technically giving a false name is an offence, but is it better to try to correct this as soon as possible?
 

ForTheLoveOf

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I am concerned about continuing the lie as to the correct name of the OP. Given the incident took place yesterday, should the OP contact the Train Operating Company to correct this and their address, explaining that he/she panicked and didn't want his/her employer to find out what he/she had done. On reflection he/she realises this was wrong and wants to set the record straight at the earliest possibly opportunity?

I realise that technically giving a false name is an offence, but is it better to try to correct this as soon as possible?
There is a very careful calculation to be made here. I doubt that the OP will have any benefit by admitting to the false details now vs a month or whenever down the line that C2C write to the false details given. Giving false details isn't an offence under the regular railway laws, because, again, we are talking about an RRB not a train. It would be an offence under fraud laws, if at all, but again, that depends on it fulfilling all the statutory conditions for constituting an offence. And again, fraud isn't a routinely prosecuted offence by TOCs, certainly not for minor things such as one-off fares offences.

I think at this stage it is probably better to "let sleeping dogs lie". I doubt that the RPI would have let the OP go if they had significant doubts about the veracity of the details; they would probably have called the police.
 

SteveM70

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in buying a child ticket I didn’t think I was doing anything wrong


I’m really struggling to understand the thought process here.

You know an adult fare is more expensive than a child fare. You know that for the purposes of buying a train ticket you are an adult. I really can’t see how this stacks up with thinking you weren’t doing anything wrong
 

ForTheLoveOf

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You know that for the purposes of buying a train ticket you are an adult.
Do we? It's not at all unreasonable for someone unfamiliar with railway ticketing, and especially a child, to think that "child" means 0-17 years old, in the same way it does by default for every other part of the law, and really for most purposes for life in general. The OP doesn't state or suggest they knew they were in the wrong.
 
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