Successful prosecution stories

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WCMLaddict

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On this forum we very often see topics where customers complain about being handed an unfair PN, being prosecuted for nothing and so on. We also occasionally get people like Flamingo who share with us their experiences from the other side and I have to say I find them very interesting.

In my work I very often get to see and read the internal TOC magazines and got some time the other day skim over Your Northern. There was an interesting feature listing some successful prosecutions and I thought some here might find them interesting. Even better would be if other people could share their own stories as well.

A passenger traveling to Blackpool Pleasure Beach offered up a monthly season ticket that had been altered by sticking a different month over the original. When questioned by the conductor he denied all knowledge and the ticket was withdrawn. On arrival the man run from the train calling the conductor a ****ing w*****!!! Luckily he’d left his name and address details in the season ticket wallet and we were able to contact him. Unsurprisingly he didn’t respond to any of our correspondence. In court he was charged with three offences: fare evasion, altering the ticket and abusive language and fined a total of £816.

Revenue colleagues at Bradford Interchange challenged a passenger who had travelled from Preston to produce a valid ticket. The officer noticed that the ticket had been used before and that he had tried to rub out any evidence. As the man then started to use foul and abusive language a revenue manager was asked to deal with the incident at which point he told the manager that he was wasting his ****ing time. In court the passenger who was a football coach was fined £655 for three offences.

Arriving at Salford Crescent a passenger offered up and out of date ticket to the revenue officer and when asked to produce a valid ticket the women produced another invalid ticket. The Revenue Officer advised her that she needed to buy a ticket for the journey she had made but she refused and became abusive. The details she provided were then found to be false and the BTP were called. In court magistrates saw fit to fine her a total of £568.
 
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maniacmartin

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Its interesting that tickets with the wrong date came up twice in your examples. I wonder if its because these are more likely to succeed (guards don't check the dates carefully sometimes?) or if its because these passengers could not think of a more elaborate fare evasion strategy.

I suspect its the latter, though at some gatelines they appear to let you through if you wave anything orange at them..
 

185

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Rumour goes around that a bogus manager was travelling around wearing a revenue protection manager badge. The companies eight revenue protection staff were searching the north of England for this chap, as he was maiking their team look ridiculous. He looked the part, suit, tie, laptop on the table, a lanyard with a "Revenue Protection" ID badge hanging around his neck. On one occasion, he had ordered an unsuspecting guard to return to his cab at Heald Green for being 'incompetent' and took over the checking of tickets on the train himself. This and several other incidents went on for some time, including incidents with him taking buses out of a depot in Huddersfield and driving them around 'problem routes'.

This poor attempt at a Frank Abignale Jr came to an abrupt halt when he boarded one train at Huddersfield. He plonked himself in First Class, and showed his lanyard and when asked for a ticket, said "I'm the revenue protection manager." The conductor sort of clicked straight away to who he really was but tried to hold a straight face and not bust laughing. Now as the train was stopping at Stalybridge, it would of been an unwise move to rumble him prior to Manchester Piccadilly, where the police would be waiting. So conductor nodded and carried on.

On leaving Stalybridge, the conductor decided to ask him a few questions, sitting on the tabletop opposite this crank. "What prompts you to go round impersonating our revenue protection manager?" - blank look off him.

"I mean, after all, as you are not a 30-something heavily pregnant female, it's a little obvious." to which he responded with all the usual "do you know who I am???".

As BTP arrested him for fraud & services by deception they were able to also search his house, and found numerous things stolen from a variety of companies, including a guard's ticket machine.

Andrew Bailey, 24, Moston, Manchester admitted 6 charges receiving 800 hours community service and fined £460.

As for the gang of eight funing revenue protection officers who had worked all hours under the sun to try find this fool, they tipped the conductors locker upside, twice in a week.
 

hantsman1205

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On this forum we very often see topics where customers complain about being handed an unfair PN, being prosecuted for nothing and so on. We also occasionally get people like Flamingo who share with us their experiences from the other side and I have to say I find them very interesting.

In my work I very often get to see and read the internal TOC magazines and got some time the other day skim over Your Northern. There was an interesting feature listing some successful prosecutions and I thought some here might find them interesting. Even better would be if other people could share their own stories as well.

Of course what it doesn't say is if these people ever paid their fines.
 

michael769

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I expect that there are quite a large number of monthly £10 receipts into a TOC's Collection Account from H.M.Courts & Tribunals.

Don't fines go to the Treasury's Consolidated Fund?

Somehow I doubt the ToC sees any of it!
 

soil

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I guess pretty much any prosecution will say 'became abusive'. Even if people spoke politely it seems de rigeur to claim someone arguing with you 'became abusive'.
 

calc7

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Rumour goes around that a bogus manager was travelling around wearing a revenue protection manager badge. The companies eight revenue protection staff were searching the north of England for this chap, as he was maiking their team look ridiculous. He looked the part, suit, tie, laptop on the table, a lanyard with a "Revenue Protection" ID badge hanging around his neck. On one occasion, he had ordered an unsuspecting guard to return to his cab at Heald Green for being 'incompetent' and took over the checking of tickets on the train himself. This and several other incidents went on for some time, including incidents with him taking buses out of a depot in Huddersfield and driving them around 'problem routes'.

This poor attempt at a Frank Abignale Jr came to an abrupt halt when he boarded one train at Huddersfield. He plonked himself in First Class, and showed his lanyard and when asked for a ticket, said "I'm the revenue protection manager." The conductor sort of clicked straight away to who he really was but tried to hold a straight face and not bust laughing. Now as the train was stopping at Stalybridge, it would of been an unwise move to rumble him prior to Manchester Piccadilly, where the police would be waiting. So conductor nodded and carried on.

On leaving Stalybridge, the conductor decided to ask him a few questions, sitting on the tabletop opposite this crank. "What prompts you to go round impersonating our revenue protection manager?" - blank look off him.

"I mean, after all, as you are not a 30-something heavily pregnant female, it's a little obvious." to which he responded with all the usual "do you know who I am???".

As BTP arrested him for fraud & services by deception they were able to also search his house, and found numerous things stolen from a variety of companies, including a guard's ticket machine.

Andrew Bailey, 24, Moston, Manchester admitted 6 charges receiving 800 hours community service and fined £460.

As for the gang of eight funing revenue protection officers who had worked all hours under the sun to try find this fool, they tipped the conductors locker upside, twice in a week.

This is a fantastic story - thank you for sharing it. :D
 

BigVince76

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I just think it nice that people without tickets are refereed to as 'passengers', much better than us honest 'customers'!
 

rp91

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Interesting in the OP that all three cases Northern chose to tell the public (I presume, not having heard of Your Nothern) about involved someone being abusive and not just a dodgy ticket or whatnot!
 

hairyhandedfool

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Interesting in the OP that all three cases Northern chose to tell the public (I presume, not having heard of Your Nothern) about involved someone being abusive and not just a dodgy ticket or whatnot!

"Your Northern" is a staff 'magazine', full of....erm....'useful information and facts'....or something like that. I usually file it in a cylindrical storage device shortly after getting it.
 

Ferret

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Interesting in the OP that all three cases Northern chose to tell the public (I presume, not having heard of Your Nothern) about involved someone being abusive and not just a dodgy ticket or whatnot!

Ordinary run of the mill Prosecutions with no abuse don't make very good stories, even for a staff magazine. Only a small minority of Prosecutions tend to involve abuse - most are quite boring to be quite honest!
 

Flamingo

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I guess pretty much any prosecution will say 'became abusive'. Even if people spoke politely it seems de rigeur to claim someone arguing with you 'became abusive'.

In the same way that all passenger complaints say the member of staff was "Rude and aggressive".

I've had this in a complaint where two other passengers wrote in to say how professionally I had handled a difficult passenger.

It's a stock defence to make a counter-allegation, "rude" is an easy one to throw, and usually means "Didn't give the answer I wanted to hear".

If you read the posters who come on here complaining (rightly or wrongly) that they have been PF'd / charged a new ticket / whatever, they always say "the member of staff was rude and they wouldn't accept my excuse". Very few (if any) threads from passengers who complain about rude staff who let them away with something dodgy.
 

jopsuk

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By putting the "abuse" ones into the staff magazine, the company shows (or tries to give the impression) to its staff that it is taking abuse by customers seriously.

I could actually see a place for putting them in the customer magazines, for a similar reason.
 

Ferret

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In the same way that all passenger complaints say the member of staff was "Rude and aggressive".

It's a stock defence to make a counter-allegation, "rude" is an easy one to throw, and usually means "Didn't give the answer I wanted to hear".

If you read the posters who come on here complaining (rightly or wrongly) that they have been PF'd / charged a new ticket / whatever, they always say "the member of staff was rude and they wouldn't accept my excuse". Very few (if any) threads from passengers who complain about rude staff who let them away with something dodgy.

Flamingo, you'll note that I've on at least one occasion had a go at somebody for doing just that on here.

I've no objection to helping people, but the key point is that even if the staff were terse, rude or whatever, the situation wouldn't arise if they had a valid ticket!

 

All Line Rover

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I've no objection to helping people, but the key point is that even if the staff were terse, rude or whatever, the situation wouldn't arise if they had a valid ticket!

I would disagree with that. Although the vast majority of staff are amicable, one or two can be truly rude when they question a perfectly valid ticket.
 

LexyBoy

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I would disagree with that. Although the vast majority of staff are amicable, one or two can be truly rude when they question a perfectly valid ticket.

I'll second that. I've had two very unpleasant experiences with RPIs (both in London, unsurprisingly), both times with valid tickets (of course!). My feeling in both cases was that the individuals involved enjoyed provoking a response from potential fare evaders (i.e. anyone).

I understand Flamingo's point and I'm sure it's true that many people claim staff were rude or abusive when they were nothing of the sort - but equally there are some rotten eggs and denying doesn't help anyone. (BTW I can absolutely see how staff can become embittered, dealing with rather unpleasant people all day with nary a thankyou in return).
 

Solent&Wessex

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When carrying out a ticket inspection a passenger showed the Guard what appeared to a be a false staff staff travel pass. Upon closer inspection it was found that the staff travel pass, although correctly dated, was in fact a forgery. The pass was withdrawn and the passengers details collected. it was later discovered that the passenger was in fact a Network Rail employee, and the forged "boxes" type pass was a copy of one that was actually issued to that person. The passenger originally pleaded Guilty to the charges put before him but did not appear in court. The magistrates decided that for an employee to abuse the privileges afforded to them it was not sufficient for him to plead guilty in writing, and ordered him to attend court to be admonished in person. Upon getting this summons the passenger took legal advice and changed his plea to not guilty. In court the case for the prosecution was proved, and the railway employee was found guilty of copying and using copies of the pass to which he was entitled, in order to avoid paying the correct fare. He was ordered to pay over £1600 in fines, costs and compensation.

One day a passenger presented a staff travel pass that had been altered. A number of the date boxes had been written in pencil then erased and overwritten a number of times. The passenger was a "dependant". The pass was withdrawn and the details of the passenger taken. In court the passenger was found guilty of a RoRA Section 5 offence, and a Byelaw 20(1) offence. They were ordered to pay fines, costs and compensation totalling £802.

At a station one day the Guard noticed a passenger join the train, then immediately enter the lavatory. The passenger remained there for 20minutes, only leaving when entering the platform at the next station. Suspecting the actions of the passenger to be suspicious the guard had arranged for other staff to meet the train. When the passenger left the lavatory he was asked to show a ticket. He was unable to show a ticket and did not have the means to pay for one. His details were taken, and in court he was ordered to pay fines, costs and compensation totalling £468.

A passenger joined the train and when asked by the guard to show his ticket was unable to produce one, and did not have the means to pay the £3.50 fare. The passenger was asked to provide his details, which he did. When the details were checked they were found to be false. The guard requested the assistance of the BTP who met the train, spoke to the passenger, and subsequently provided the correct details to the Guard. At court the male was ordered to pay fines, costs and compensation totalling £508 - significantly more than the £3.50 fare they had attempted to avoid.

One evening when carrying out a ticket check the Guard asked a passenger for his ticket. The passenger was unable to produce a ticket, as he said he had lost it. The guard explained that he would need to purchase a ticket for the journey, but the passenger refused. He also initially refused to provide his details. After a conversation the male provided his details. However he also became abusive, threatening to rip the guard's head off, said he was going to get out of this seat and knock the guard straight out and when pointing at his portable ticket machine said he was going to shove that up his a**e if he didn't f**k off. At court the passenger was ordered to pay fines, costs and compensation totalling £708.
 

Ferret

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I would disagree with that. Although the vast majority of staff are amicable, one or two can be truly rude when they question a perfectly valid ticket.

I think you've missed my point - I'm referring specifically to those who have come to this forum complaining about being prosecuted for not having a ticket of any kind.


 

BigVince76

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One evening when carrying out a ticket check the Guard asked a passenger for his ticket. The passenger was unable to produce a ticket, as he said he had lost it. The guard explained that he would need to purchase a ticket for the journey, but the passenger refused. He also initially refused to provide his details. After a conversation the male provided his details. However he also became abusive, threatening to rip the guard's head off, said he was going to get out of this seat and knock the guard straight out and when pointing at his portable ticket machine said he was going to shove that up his a**e if he didn't f**k off. At court the passenger was ordered to pay fines, costs and compensation totalling £708.

In this last case would the poor guard get any of that £708? I certainly think being threatened with violence he deserves some of the compensation.
 

Solent&Wessex

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In this last case would the poor guard get any of that £708? I certainly think being threatened with violence he deserves some of the compensation.

Not in this case. If arrested by the police and charged with a Public Order offence then they might be awarded compensation by the court, with £50 being a oft mentioned figure from those I know who have got it.
 

Ferret

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Kwvr/Bigvince - some Guards aren't fussed about that. I'm more fussed about seeing justice done. If my employers get the money owed to them for the fare, I get the satisfaction of having done my job. I'm happy with that.
 

Ferret

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The Daily Mail reported that?! I need a lie down! I suppose I ought to offer credit to them for reporting the other side of the coin for once...!
 

Solent&Wessex

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Kwvr/Bigvince - some Guards aren't fussed about that. I'm more fussed about seeing justice done. If my employers get the money owed to them for the fare, I get the satisfaction of having done my job. I'm happy with that.

Ditto.
 

Flamingo

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I'm not proud, I'd take the money :D. I have never been offered any compo, though :(
 

Solent&Wessex

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I'm not proud, I'd take the money :D. I have never been offered any compo, though :(

I got awarded £50 once after some vile individual threatened to break my legs. He got arrested by the BTP and charged with a public order offence, which he pleaded guilty to at the magistrates court. I got given the money too!

 
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There is in article in todays Daily Mail about 3 gents who today have been fined for forging train tickets & car parking passes in Southampton.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ason-tickets-car-park-passes-worth-2-000.html

The Judge wasnt impressed !

Neither were some of their "readers" judging by the comments on Mail Online:roll: They seemed to think that the people involved were harshly treated; and surprise surprise, the judge lived "in another universe".
 
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