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Successful prosecution stories

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Ferret

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Hang on, aren't Daily Mail readers supporters of harsh penalties to restore law and order?! How bizarre!
 
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michael769

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Hang on, aren't Daily Mail readers supporters of harsh penalties to restore law and order?! How bizarre!

Only when the recipients of the hard penalty live in a council estate or are a "banker".
 

Ferret

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Only when the recipients of the hard penalty live in a council estate or are a "banker".

Ah, my mistake!!!:) There are some strange people about - crime is crime, and forgery of season tickets is quite a bad one, in monetary terms.
 

michael769

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Ah, my mistake!!!:) There are some strange people about - crime is crime, and forgery of season tickets is quite a bad one, in monetary terms.

Indeed, it is hard to see how any right thinking person could justify such a well planned, systematic and organised conspiracy as this.
 

jon0844

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Of course what it doesn't say is if these people ever paid their fines.

They don't sound like people who would pay and isn't it around 40% of fines that aren't paid? Sadly the court doesn't seem to be particularly proactive about rounding these people up either.

So, a fine - unless paid there and then, or goods are confiscated, or the person is held in a cell until paid, is often pointless and gives the criminal the last laugh.

And as for the Daily Mail comments; yup, they weren't bankers so they were harshly punished - and train companies charge rip off prices anyway (how dare they make 3-4% on every ticket sold - the greedy fat cats!). I'm surprised nobody has said that it's unfair that not everyone can afford first class, except those bankers.

Still, at least someone got a comment in about drivers being overpaid and to bring in the Polish. How ironic that the Polish drivers would get paid exactly the same!
 
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Wolf_359

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I got awarded £50 once after some vile individual threatened to break my legs. He got arrested by the BTP and charged with a public order offence, which he pleaded guilty to at the magistrates court. I got given the money too!

I was awarded £50 compo once for an assault where my nose was broken. I think I got about a £1 a week for a few months before he decided he could not afford to pay it anymore & I got bugger all.
 

reb0118

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I was awarded £50 compo once for an assault where my nose was broken. I think I got about a £1 a week for a few months before he decided he could not afford to pay it anymore & I got bugger all.

For £50 I'll go round and break his nose for you! (I don't do instalments though).
 

34D

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One day a passenger presented a staff travel pass that had been altered. A number of the date boxes had been written in pencil then erased and overwritten a number of times. The passenger was a "dependant". The pass was withdrawn and the details of the passenger taken. In court the passenger was found guilty of a RoRA Section 5 offence, and a Byelaw 20(1) offence. They were ordered to pay fines, costs and compensation totalling £802.

Erm isn't this what all staff do? Two mates of mine certainly do
 

Solent&Wessex

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Erm isn't this what all staff do? Two mates of mine certainly do


Not on my trains they don't! I am forever collecting altered staff travel passes, mainly from dependants and retired. Staff seem better.
 

reb0118

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Erm isn't this what all staff do? Two mates of mine certainly do

I'm not going to go into details for obvious reasons but I will say this it is very unwise to alter any date boxes on any staff pass, flexi rover, or flexi pass. It is also unwise to use a pencil on date boxes, again for obvious reasons.

You could be prosecuted or even lose your job over it.

Solution, show your passes to the guard prior to boarding and ask to borrow a pen if required.
 

Butts

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How did "The Architect" and his cohorts manage to get through the auto barriers with these passes - the caption in the article shows a Travelcard with underground usage on top of the rail journey (can't remember what they are called)
 

reb0118

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How did "The Architect" and his cohorts manage to get through the auto barriers with these passes - the caption in the article shows a Travelcard with underground usage on top of the rail journey (can't remember what they are called)

This is just my theory: The passenger puts the pass into the automatic gate close enough to the operator to be seen doing it but far enough away for the ticket not to be seen clearly. The passenger then puts the ticket back in the wallet and exits through the manual gate - possibly with a wee cheery comment like "it didn't work at Southhampton either"

OR

They hold an oyster card with the lowest priced travelcard loaded onto it that will allow them through the gates - no need to touch in or out en route with a travelcard.

Just some theories.
 

jon0844

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Another good reason to extend smartcards beyond London, as that's a very easy and no doubt VERY common scam. With a Z1 Travelcard, you're able to get through every London terminus gateline and then decide on what combination of tickets to use thereafter, either another season for your local station or a fake ticket if there's no gateline and you're relying on the fact that 99% of ticket inspections won't be that close up.

No, sorry, 99% is a bit of an exaggeration. I meant 99.5%.
 

Butts

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Another good reason to extend smartcards beyond London, as that's a very easy and no doubt VERY common scam. With a Z1 Travelcard, you're able to get through every London terminus gateline and then decide on what combination of tickets to use thereafter, either another season for your local station or a fake ticket if there's no gateline and you're relying on the fact that 99% of ticket inspections won't be that close up.

No, sorry, 99% is a bit of an exaggeration. I meant 99.5%.

99.9% surely.....:p

Also no mention of any prosecutions for the current hot debate on "stopping short" or BOJ to have a smoke :roll:
 

jon0844

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Given my experience, I could have probably said 100% but when I attracted the unwanted attention from a certain RPI, I did find my ticket investigated very thoroughly - or at least he pretended to examine it thoroughly to try and embarrass me. Once in about ten years of almost daily travel? Not bad.

He was the only person who ever checked my season ticket close up, and the only person who could have potentially uncovered it as being fake if it had been.

I concluded that while an orange ticket might be checked because there are a range of restrictions, Gold Cards are not. I think the only thing checked is the date (and perhaps the class), not the photo card ID number or the origin/destination. I know that as I had my season from Hatfield to Hadley Wood, then Z456 and Oyster for the rest. At King's Cross, before the gates, I just showed the Gold Card anyway. I can't imagine how many times I did it, but every single time I was showing a ticket that didn't cover me to King's Cross - and never once was I stopped.

So, I could have probably shown a Hatfield to Welham Green season and been fine.. or even stations not even on the same line.

I guess a Gold Card owner is shown a degree of respect (and trust) and that's rather dangerous when there are so many dodgy people out there.. I am sure the stories in the papers are the tip of the iceberg.
 

causton

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As someone who regularly shows Boundary Zone 6 - somewhere tickets inside the travelcard zones when checked, and let through a lot of the time, even on orange tickets they don't scrutinise the origin/destination THAT thoroughly! :)
 

34D

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As someone who regularly shows Boundary Zone 6 - somewhere tickets inside the travelcard zones when checked, and let through a lot of the time, even on orange tickets they don't scrutinise the origin/destination THAT thoroughly! :)

Will be so much easier when an ITSO reader checks your tickets.
 

jon0844

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Absolutely. A lot of fraud will be prevented by smartcards, until such time that someone cracks the security and can programme smartcards with anything - thus having totally legitimate data for readers.

How long until someone gets to travel around with a fake smartcard containing an ALR?!
 

SickyNicky

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Will be so much easier when an ITSO reader checks your tickets.

If they can program the routeing guide correctly into the readers so that routes and breaks of journey are correctly allowed. They can't even do that at the moment on any booking engine.

One wonders how often there is a failed attempt to prosecute where the traveller was on a valid but obscure ticket, or how many people just pay up to avoid the hassle.
 

barrykas

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Another good reason to extend smartcards beyond London, as that's a very easy and no doubt VERY common scam. With a Z1 Travelcard, you're able to get through every London terminus gateline and then decide on what combination of tickets to use thereafter

Try it at Marylebone and you'll find yourself with a PAYG Entry charge, due to the next stations being in Zone 4 (Wembley Stadium) and Zone 5 (Harrow-on-the-Hill). ;) A paper Zone 1-2 or Zone 1-3 won't open the barriers either for the same reason.
 

calc7

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Try it at Marylebone and you'll find yourself with a PAYG Entry charge, due to the next stations being in Zone 4 (Wembley Stadium) and Zone 5 (Harrow-on-the-Hill). ;) A paper Zone 1-2 or Zone 1-3 won't open the barriers either for the same reason.

What about people using Z12 Oyster travelcard and relevant Boundary Zone extensions?
 

LexyBoy

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Try it at Marylebone and you'll find yourself with a PAYG Entry charge, due to the next stations being in Zone 4 (Wembley Stadium) and Zone 5 (Harrow-on-the-Hill). ;) A paper Zone 1-2 or Zone 1-3 won't open the barriers either for the same reason.

And the barriers on the IC platforms at Paddington don't have Oyster readers...
 

barrykas

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What about people using Z12 Oyster travelcard and relevant Boundary Zone extensions?

The extension should work the gates, though I haven't tried it myself as I've got a 1-4 Travelcard on my Oyster.
 

maniacmartin

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Boundary Zone 2 extensions work the gates there :p

How confusing for passengers! I would have naturally used the Oyster at the barrier if I had a Boundary Zone 2 ticket + Oyster Zones1-2 travelcard, as this seems like the intuitive thing to do. After all, the Boundary Zone 2 ticket covers from the edge of zone 2 (oversimplifying here)

I wonder how many passengers have inadvertently been paying PAYG under these circumstances (probably not many given not many even know about the existance of BZ tickets). This setup sounds like a big problem.
 

RJ

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How confusing for passengers! I would have naturally used the Oyster at the barrier if I had a Boundary Zone 2 ticket + Oyster Zones1-2 travelcard, as this seems like the intuitive thing to do. After all, the Boundary Zone 2 ticket covers from the edge of zone 2 (oversimplifying here)

I wonder how many passengers have inadvertently been paying PAYG under these circumstances (probably not many given not many even know about the existance of BZ tickets). This setup sounds like a big problem.

Good point - I didn't actually know that a charge is deducted. Only the OEP system was supposed to pre-empt this type of fare evasion. If this is indeed the case, which admittedly I haven't experienced personally, then Chiltern should review the programming of the barriers.

I know Zone 1-2 Travelcards are popular with the fraudsters living out in the suburbs - I busted a few myself. But Chiltern need to come up with a better solution than that. What do they do with the people who have had charges deducted for no reason - make them go through the hassle of getting a refund?

I bought a BZ2 - Bicester North Priv SDR off a certain ticket office clerk at Marylebone in order to sample the 172s when they were brand new. Only thought to try it to see if it worked the barriers, like they do at the London Terminal I was working at :p
 
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island

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Indeed. They have to use paper gate passes to let people through, and one time I was there, the paper gate passes were giving seek assistance errors themselves!
 

Clip

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Absolutely. A lot of fraud will be prevented by smartcards, until such time that someone cracks the security and can programme smartcards with anything - thus having totally legitimate data for readers.

Really? Theres an awful lot of fraud still being carried out with users of that other smart card - Oyster - being comitted on the rail network now by people having only zone 1- 2 TCs on them and travelling from much further out.

How will ITSO prevent this when tickets are not being checked now and people are still being fraudulent with Oyster?
 
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