Summer outing to Crewe

[alecras234]

Hi my name's Ash, im 39 from North Wales. I have been watching videos on youtube of people making vlogs of their times at various railway stations calling out the trains that come in with their numbers. In the summer I'm thinking of going to Crewe train station and filming the trains that come in but i don't know how the people that i've watched get their information about the trains that come in, type and number. Can you help me to understand please?

 

[E_Reeves]

Hi Ash,

To get information on trains arriving and departing a certain station or location, a popular website is http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced This is good as you get freight services as well as passenger services.

To get loco/unit numbers, they are usually found at the front of the train and if it's a unit it will consist of 6 digits, and for a loco 5 digits. The first 3 digits (for unit) is the class number and the last 3 digits is the unit number. Each loco and unit has it's own unique number. For locos, the first 2 digits is the class number and again the last 3 is the unique number.

Units will also have coach numbers usually found on the side of the coaches, but I use these rarely and usually have no relevance to the unit number. To cross reference carriage numbers to the unit number I use railuk.info

Hope this helps, and feel free to ask if you require any more information or any more explanations.

 

[BestWestern]

Hello,

If you mean classes of train and unit or loco numbers, the individual numbers are displayed on the trains themselves, and being an anorak means you can tell what a train is from half a mile away! If you mean things like headcodes and so on, there are various websites available which show realtime info etc.

 

[alecras234]

ok im a beginner, a loco is just the engine yes? A unit is, im confused. The class numbers are what? say as an example from a youtube vlog i'm watching at Crewe station, the guy filming says a Virgin train is coming in, 390104, would that be class 39? is it the first 2 numbers for the class

 

[E_Reeves]

ok im a beginner, a loco is just the engine yes? A unit is, im confused. The class numbers are what? say as an example from a youtube vlog i'm watching at Crewe station, the guy filming says a Virgin train is coming in, 390104, would that be class 39? is it the first 2 numbers for the class

Yes, a loco is what's usually found at the front of a freight train.
Most passenger trains are units, although some are loco hauled (Norwich to Great Yarmouth for example).

The way to get it is if the number has 6 digits, it's a unit. So 390104 would be a class 390 (Pendolino is another name for this class).
If it has 5 digits, it's a loco.

Unit - 6 digits, first 3 is class number.
Loco - 5 digits, first 2 is class number.

I'm probably overcomplicating this for you, but you'll get used to it soon

 

[BestWestern]

ok im a beginner, a loco is just the engine yes? A unit is, im confused. The class numbers are what? say as an example from a youtube vlog i'm watching at Crewe station, the guy filming says a Virgin train is coming in, 390104, would that be class 39? is it the first 2 numbers for the class

Basics! A locomotive is, yes, the engine. Most trains now however don't have a locomotive - instead, the driver's cab is built into the passenger coaches at each end of the train. These are 'multiple units', or units for short. 'Units' have three digit class numbers, so your vlogger's Virgin train is a class 390. 104 is the individual number of that particular unit. These multiple units can be electric - EMUs, or diesel - DMUs. A class 390 is an EMU, drawing its power from the overhead wires. Generally, DMUs are class 1xx or 2xx, EMUs class 3xx or 4xx. However some of the newest trains currently or recently being built have moved on to 7xx or 8xx, which confuses even existing railfans!

 

[E_Reeves]

I've found a website which may help you out: http://www.railfaneurope.net/misc/gbnum.html

 

[BestWestern]

Just to illustrate, random picture here of a train. As you can see, displayed on the front is a number, this is a class 444 and the individual unit is 020. This would be described simply as it's written, 444020. As well as numbers, some train types have an official name, rather like a model of car, and most also have a range of nicknames given to them by railfans and trainspotters. The class 444 is made by Seimens and has the model name Desiro. There are other similar Desiro trains in the UK with other class numbers. The Virgin class 390 has the name Pendolino.

As a point of interest, and without wishing to confuse you, this is a 'third rail' or 'DC' electric train. There are no overhead wires like at Crewe, but instead an extra rail at ground level from which the train draws power, similar to many metro or underground systems around the world. The third rail operates with DC direct current electricity, whilst the overhead wires (overhead line equipment or OHLE) as per Crewe use AC alternating current.

 

[alecras234]

so because it's go t 6 numbers it's a unit, and a multiple unit is the cab is inside the carriage at both ends?? is this train class 44

 

[BestWestern]

so because it's go t 6 numbers it's a unit, and a multiple unit is the cab is inside the carriage at both ends?? is this train class 44

Yep, but the first three numbers are the class, so 444. As you can see, no separate loco, the driving cab is at the end of the passenger carriage.

 

[E_Reeves]

Just remember there are 3 digits for the individual loco/unit, so if there's 6 digits altogether the class must be the first 3.

 

[alecras234]

ok thanks, i think i understand. i'll carry on watching these trainspotters on youtube and see what i can understand. I'm currently watching a guy at Preston and a teso DRS 66434, whats teso DRS? Would that be class 66, as there's 5 numbers?

 

[BestWestern]

ok thanks, i think i understand. i'll carry on watching these trainspotters on youtube and see what i can understand. I'm currently watching a guy at Preston and a teso DRS 66434, whats teso DRS? Would that be class 66, as there's 5 numbers?

Certainly would be! Class 66, a diesel locomotive, loads of those about. I don't know what 'teso' is - not Tesco?! DRS is Direct Rail Services, a company who operate locomotives.

 

[E_Reeves]

ok thanks, i think i understand. i'll carry on watching these trainspotters on youtube and see what i can understand. I'm currently watching a guy at Preston and a teso DRS 66434, whats teso DRS? Would that be class 66, as there's 5 numbers?

Yes, that correct! Class 66s are the most common locos you'll find, so get used to them By the way, it's Tesco DRS. DRS (Direct Rail Services) is the Freight Operating Company that operate the service. Tesco stock (as in the shop) is what's being carried. You'll probably see containers with LesCO2 Rail on it, with the logo similar to Tesco. Those are the Tesco containers.

 

[alecras234]

He talks fast, it sounded like Teso haha. Virgin 392049, is that class 362? What's livery and what's a shunter?

 

[E_Reeves]

He talks fast, it sounded like Teso haha. Virgin 392049, is that class 362? What's livery and what's a shunter?

It'd be 390049 (so class 390), but if he talks fast I see where you got 392 from. Virgin only have classes 221 and 390 in their fleet.

A livery is the paintwork that the train is in, so 390s are in Virgin livery. Virgin are rolling out a new white livery so you'll see a mixture of the old red and silver and the new white and red liveries.

A shunter is a small loco that they use in yards to shunt other locomotives and stock around (usually). You'll usually find classes 08 and 09 shunters in use today. Crewe has a few shunters in nearby yards, and are sometimes visible from the station itself.

 

[700007]

Think of it as your first name and last name.

So 390 is your surname, it's your family name. Your siblings, which are similar or identical to you share the same 'class' or surname.

Then 104 is your first name. That is your individual unique name to differentiate yourself from your siblings. Each train will have a different 'unit number' as this is called.

My name is 700 007, so my siblings and I are from the 700 family whilst my first name to differentiate me from my other 114 siblings is 007.

Hope this helps!

 

[alecras234]

Hi thanks for helping me, i think i'm starting to understand it all. I'm disabled and i've suffered head injury so information takes a while to sink in. I have jotted down a list of numbers from a youtube film from somebody filming at Crewe station. Could you explain please?

Pair of 90’s, class 4 freight 90043 ( what is pair of 90's class 4 freight)?

Cross rail 345 unit. (class 345)?

Virgin 392043 (class 392 )?

Voyager 221118 (class 221)?

Dual pairing 153321 leads, 153383 at rear ) do i need to worry about getting the number for the rear when i go spotting)?

Arriva 175104 (class 175)?

Virgin 390001 (Class 390)?

Virgin 390103, (class 390)?

London Midland 350121 (class 350)?

Arriva 175101 (class 175)?

London Midland 350245 (class 350)?

37601 (loco class 37)?

 

[alecras234]

Think of it as your first name and last name.

So 390 is your surname, it's your family name. Your siblings, which are similar or identical to you share the same 'class' or surname.

Then 104 is your first name. That is your individual unique name to differentiate yourself from your siblings. Each train will have a different 'unit number' as this is called.

My name is 700 007, so my siblings and I are from the 700 family whilst my first name to differentiate me from my other 114 siblings is 007.

Hope this helps!

So for instance my name is Ash, so that would be 390 as my first name, then my surname would be 001?

 

[E_Reeves]

Hi thanks for helping me, i think i'm starting to understand it all. I'm disabled and i've suffered head injury so information takes a while to sink in. I have jotted down a list of numbers from a youtube film from somebody filming at Crewe station. Could you explain please?

Pair of 90’s, class 4 freight 90043 ( what is pair of 90's class 4 freight)?

Cross rail 345 unit. (class 345)?

Virgin 392043 (class 392 )?

Voyager 221118 (class 221)?

Dual pairing 153321 leads, 153383 at rear ) do i need to worry about getting the number for the rear when i go spotting)?

Arriva 175104 (class 175)?

Virgin 390001 (Class 390)?

Virgin 390103, (class 390)?

London Midland 350121 (class 350)?

Arriva 175101 (class 175)?

London Midland 350245 (class 350)?

37601 (loco class 37)?

Pair of 90’s, class 4 freight 90043 ( what is pair of 90's class 4 freight)? A '90' is a class 90 electric locomotive. Locomotives can sometimes 'double head' which means there are 2 locomotives hauling the train, although sometimes only one loco is actually working. Class 4 I believe is something to do with the priority and max speed of the service, but I'm not too familiar with the codes.

Cross rail 345 unit. (class 345)? Yes, these are the new units for Crossrail down in London

Virgin 392043 (class 392 )? Not quite. It would've been 390043 (class 390), but it may've sounded different in the video.

Voyager 221118 (class 221)? Indeed

Dual pairing 153321 leads, 153383 at rear ) do i need to worry about getting the number for the rear when i go spotting)? These are 1-coach units, and dual pairing means 2 units joined together. I keep records of what I've seen, so I record both unit numbers.

Arriva 175104 (class 175)? Yep

Virgin 390001 (Class 390)? Yes, class 390. If it's Virgin West Coast, it'll either be class 390(electric) or 221(diesel).

Virgin 390103, (class 390)? Again, yes.

London Midland 350121 (class 350)? Yes, class 350 is correct. The video you're watching might be from last year or before, as London Midland is now called West Midlands Trains, split into West Midlands Railway (for local trains) and London Northwestern Railway (for longer distance services, e.g Trains to and from London, Crewe and Liverpool). All ex London Midland class 350s are now London Northwestern Railway.

Arriva 175101 (class 175)? Correct

London Midland 350245 (class 350)? Yep. Again, now London Northwestern Railway.

37601 (loco class 37)? Yes, class 37 is correct.

 

[E_Reeves]

So for instance my name is Ash, so that would be 390 as my first name, then my surname would be 001?

No, in the railway it's the other way around. The class of train is the 'family' and the last 3 digits is the unique 'first name'.

 

[alecras234]

What's class 4 freight? i understand the pair of 90's because the number is 90043 and it's the first two numbers for the loco class, but whats class 4 freight?

 

[alecras234]

No, in the railway it's the other way around. The class of train is the 'family' and the last 3 digits is the unique 'first name'.

oh right so the last three numbers is the name and the class numbers is the family name, to say that it's part of a group of trains of that kind?

 

[E_Reeves]

What's class 4 freight? i understand the pair of 90's because the number is 90043 and it's the first two numbers for the loco class, but whats class 4 freight?

I'm not sure exactly what they mean by class 4 freight, but if I said 'class 4 frieght' to somebody I'd mean the priority of that train. You can get the priority from something called a headcode. A headcode is basically an ID number for that service. I've found a particularly useful thread that explains the concept of headcodes. Remember though, on websites that tell you the headcodes, freight headcodes are usually 'scrambled' so they will not appear in the same format.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/understanding-tops-headcodes.11993/

 

[E_Reeves]

oh right so the last three numbers is the name and the class numbers is the family name, to say that it's part of a group of trains of that kind?

Yes that's correct. If any trains are of the same class, they are the same type and usually very similar.

 

[Bevan Price]

What's class 4 freight? i understand the pair of 90's because the number is 90043 and it's the first two numbers for the loco class, but whats class 4 freight?

A Class 4 freight is a freight train authorised to travel at speeds of up to 75 mph (but it must obey any lower speed restrictions when those exist at specific locations.)

 

[alecras234]

Hi thank you for your help in understanding numbers having 6 digits and locos having 5 digits, the first 2 numbers being the locos class and the first 3 for a unit being the units class. For when i go to Crewe station, how do i do this trainspotting thing? Could you tell me how to use the realtrain times app please? Do i stay in simple mode rather than detailed? what do i do, do i go there, look at realtrain times to see what’s arriving? As the trains move fast, How do i get the numbers?


When a loco has letters before its class number, what do the letters mean? Also what is Nuke flask??

 

[mark_47769]

On RTT (Realtime Trains) I tend to use the detailed search this gives you more options and after having a little play with it its not actually that difficult to use. As for the numbers it depends what you wish to do some people like to write them down in a notebook this can be for many reasons from just keeping a log of what they have seen that day and others use pocket books to record the locos/units that they have seen or been on. You used to be able to pick these up from the WHSmiths at Crewe station.

Hope this helps.

 

[alecras234]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CRE What are the columns? says origin starts here, then on other column says destination, could you explain what im looking at please?

 

[E_Reeves]

When a loco has letters before its class number, what do the letters mean? Also what is Nuke flask??

As in letters, which letters do you mean? If it is 'DR' it will be a track machine which engineers use for track work. A nuke flask, or nuclear flask, is a container that is used to transport nuclear material to and from nuclear power stations usually.