Summoned to Court for completely accidental fare evasion

[MickMcCarthy17]

Hi All,

I am looking for advice as I have recently been summoned to court by Govia Thameslink for fare evasion - here is the specific wording of the summons:

You are hereby summoned to appear on [DATE - late December] at [TIME] before City of London Magistrates Court, to answer the following information laid today:
That you on 15 Sept 2020 Did enter a train for the purpose of travelling on the railway, and upon inspection at City Thameslink; did not produce a valid ticket entitling travel.

This is under Schedule 20 of the Transport Act. Byelaw 18(1) of Railway Byelaws 2005. Further in the summons:

Statement of Facts - On [DATE], Mr. [NAME - SPELT WRONG] travelled from [STATION A] to [STATION B - LONDON]. The defendant was unable to produce a valid ticket for the entire journey. The ticket held was only valid for part of the journey. On this day travelled beyond validity on Ticket No. XXXXX. Mr [NAME] was informed that the matter will be reported. The outstanding fare avoided is £9 and this amount is claimed, together with the sum of £135 for prosecution costs.

What the summons don't say, is that this was a genuine, one-off, honest mistake - I was travelling on my first day of work, from an unfamiliar town I had just moved to, to a station I had never travelled to before, via another station I had never travelled to before, both of which begin with the same letter. In my nervousness and rush to get there, I accidentally said the wrong station name to the ticket man, and thus bought the wrong ticket. I was also travelling with my new boss for the latter part of the journey. It is utterly inconceivable that I would set out to deliberately avoid the fare, for the sake of £1.50 (or £9, if you ask them).

On that note, I held an anytime return from A to B, but Govia Thameslink appear to have calculated what I have 'cheated them out of' by if I had bought two specific tickets From A to C and C back to A. In fact, if I had bought an anytime return from A to C, it would have costed £13.50. I paid £12. In other words, they are summoning me to court because they think I deliberately defrauded them of £1.50 in front of my boss on my first day of work. I have explained all of this in my response to them (they asked me to write my version of events to them - to be honest I was a bit arsey in my response which may be why I've been summoned now). I have since been advised that intent is irrelevant for this offence in the eyes of the law, but there it is. Now they are threatening me with a £1000 fine (+ £135 prosecution costs + £9 fare) and a criminal record.

I don't know what to do now. I don't really understand what my options are. If I get a criminal conviction, I will lose my first job straight out of uni, maybe be unable to work in my industry again and definitely be disbarred from continuing my volunteering work with kids forever. I have been advised that I have got a very good chance of settling out of court by multiple solicitors, but the fees are exorbitant - I'll end up paying more than the fine would be, most likely, but with the counterbalance of not getting a criminal record. This would be all the money I've currently got in the world.

I guess my questions are these:

1. Realistically, what are my options? What is my best bet? What are my chances in court?
2. The implication from everyone I speak to is that I can't get legal representation for free on the day of my trial. Is this true?
3. Is it possible to try to settle out of court without a solicitor?
4. £9 appears to have been calculated using a more expensive option than the ticket I had actually bought (i.e. if I had bought the same type of ticket as the one I had, but for the correct station, the amount would actually be £1.50). Is this normal? Can I dispute the amount that is owed? Is this likely to result in the case being thrown out?
5. On that note, what are the chances of the case being thrown out on the day?
6. Given that intent isn't taken into account in this case, am I guilty of this crime? What does that mean for my options?

I am alternating between crushing anxiety and seething rage at this slavish, absurd, Kafkaesque devotion to process. I feel like I'm the one who is being robbed. I really, really need help with this as I feel like I'm in deep trouble for the smallest and most innocent, genuine mistake I can possibly conceive of. Any help you can offer me would be much appreciated.

Thank you all in advance.

 

[clagmonster]

I would firstly write to GTR prosecutions, apologising for not paying your full fare, promising it won't happen again and offering to pay the fare owed and any costs GTR have had in dealing with the matter.

If the above fails, I would turn up early at the mags, ask to speak with the prosecutor and ask the prosecutor at that point if it is possible to settle.

Beyond that, we are into legal technicalities I am not overly confident on commenting on. I would state though, that as you did have a valid ticket when you boarded, in my opinion you are not guilty of an offence under byelaw 18 (1). I am sure that others will be able to advise further on this.

I would not worry at this stage about the £7 difference - there was a case on a far larger scale in which the compensation was argued down but here it is small compared to what you will end up paying out.

May I ask, how often do you make this journey? If it is regular, then obtaining a season ticket will show that you are less likely to come to their attention again so may make them more inclined to settle. It may help in providing advice if you disclose your journey in providing.

 

[MotCO]

A quick question - I assume your forum name is not your real name - if it is, it may be best to change it. Many TOCs read this forum and may link anything you say on this forum to your case.

 

[island]

Did the train you were on call at B, or any station between A and B? If so, the prosecution is defective as they have charged the wrong offence.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Just a few points to add to the good advice already given

- you don't need a solicitor to seek an out of court settlement: while their experience might be helpful in making the best pitch to the railway company, it may not be as helpful as the amount they charge for it.
- your name being spelt wrong will not get you off this. While I don't know, it strikes me as highly likely that the law will just require it to be more likely than not that the right person has been charged. Otherwise everyone would be giving their name to the authorities as 'Smyth' rather than 'Smith', and then walking away from offences without punishment.
- while you have identified what could happen if you're convicted, realistically the consequences are likely to be less than this:
* the maximum fine is £1,000. You will only be charged the maximum if you are a repeat offender. Also note that fines are normally charged as a proportion of your weekly income so if your income is low you will pay less than if it is high. This means that it would be a good idea to bring payslips and so on with you to court to prove what you have coming in.
* there are very few jobs where one conviction for getting your fare wrong will lose you the job. Normally this is a difficult point to explore in that you may only discover that your job is one of those few when you ask your employer about it and you are summarily dismissed. But in your specific case, your boss was there and already knows what happened - so talk to them and find out what the real position is. But if your boss will have to go and ask a bigger boss, then ask them to do that anonymously without mentioning your name: it could be that bigger boss will be less sympathetic.
* similarly with your voluntary work: it's hard to see that a valuable volunteer would be let go for one mistake. In both cases, you can emphasise that it was a mistake, and that you have learnt from it (i.e. that you will check your ticket carefully in future).

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum.

I think the problem here is you failed the 'attitude test' in the reply to the reply you wrote to them giving your version of events, by your own admission you said the reply was 'a bit arsey'. This is where you should have apologised etc and the chances are GTR would have offered you an administrative settlement.

I would write a short concise letter to GTR and suggest you include the following:

- that you are sorry for what happened on the day
- what you have learned from the incident
- apologise for the tone of the initial reply
- state that you are keen to keep the matter out of court and say that you are willing to pay GTR's administrative costs in dealing with the matter plus the outstanding fare.

Don't give a sob story, they will have heard it all before.

If this fails then I on the day of the court case I would arrive early and seek out the prosecutor. It might be possible to negotiate a settlement with the case out of court.

 

[MotCO]

It might be possible to negotiate a settlement with the case out of court.

Previous cases on this forum suggest this is possible. The advantage to the Train Operating Company is that all the settlement goes to the company; if it went to Court, the proceeds are split between the Court and the company.

 

[jumble]

This may seem harsh but the train company may be doing you a big favour for the rest of your life
You seem to be a bit entitled.
Being rude to people who have both power and discretion and don't particularly care what the outcome is is unwise
Disputing £8.00 is pretty much going to make the situation worse.
I suggest you take Hadders's excellent advice and present yourself to the prosecutions dept as a deeply remorseful person and not an arrogant know it all and you might be able to salvage matters

 

[MickMcCarthy17]

First of all thank you all for your swift and informative replies.

I will attempt to address them all.

Beyond that, we are into legal technicalities I am not overly confident on commenting on. I would state though, that as you did have a valid ticket when you boarded, in my opinion you are not guilty of an offence under byelaw 18 (1). I am sure that others will be able to advise further on this.

I would not worry at this stage about the £7 difference - there was a case on a far larger scale in which the compensation was argued down but here it is small compared to what you will end up paying out.

May I ask, how often do you make this journey? If it is regular, then obtaining a season ticket will show that you are less likely to come to their attention again so may make them more inclined to settle. It may help in providing advice if you disclose your journey in providing.

Sorry, perhaps this wasn't clear. I actually changed at B, so I don't think this defence would work since when I boarded at B, I won't have had a valid ticket. As for the difference in cash, I'm less worried about the actual difference and more worried about that fact that this increased amount (from £1.50 which I believe is the true amount) factored into the decision to prosecute. As for how often I make the journey, not very often at the moment with COVID but maybe in the new year I'll be making it weekly. It's hard to say.

A quick question - I assume your forum name is not your real name - if it is, it may be best to change it. Many TOCs read this forum and may link anything you say on this forum to your case.

No, Mick McCarthy is the former manager of Ipswich Town F.C.

Did the train you were on call at B, or any station between A and B? If so, the prosecution is defective as they have charged the wrong offence.

As above, the train went from A to B, where I changed, and went from B to C.

Just a few points to add to the good advice already given

- you don't need a solicitor to seek an out of court settlement: while their experience might be helpful in making the best pitch to the railway company, it may not be as helpful as the amount they charge for it.
- your name being spelt wrong will not get you off this. While I don't know, it strikes me as highly likely that the law will just require it to be more likely than not that the right person has been charged. Otherwise everyone would be giving their name to the authorities as 'Smyth' rather than 'Smith', and then walking away from offences without punishment.
- while you have identified what could happen if you're convicted, realistically the consequences are likely to be less than this:
* the maximum fine is £1,000. You will only be charged the maximum if you are a repeat offender. Also note that fines are normally charged as a proportion of your weekly income so if your income is low you will pay less than if it is high. This means that it would be a good idea to bring payslips and so on with you to court to prove what you have coming in.
* there are very few jobs where one conviction for getting your fare wrong will lose you the job. Normally this is a difficult point to explore in that you may only discover that your job is one of those few when you ask your employer about it and you are summarily dismissed. But in your specific case, your boss was there and already knows what happened - so talk to them and find out what the real position is. But if your boss will have to go and ask a bigger boss, then ask them to do that anonymously without mentioning your name: it could be that bigger boss will be less sympathetic.
* similarly with your voluntary work: it's hard to see that a valuable volunteer would be let go for one mistake. In both cases, you can emphasise that it was a mistake, and that you have learnt from it (i.e. that you will check your ticket carefully in future).

Thank you for the information. It's good to know that I may be able to seek and out-of-court settlement on my own, as the solicitors seem to generally charge about £600 for this. It's also good to know that my work may be lenient with me if convicted, but of course I'd rather avoid the complications altogether. As for my voluntary work, it is with children and involves an enhanced DBS - so I would be effectively disbarred from doing this work forever.

Welcome to the forum.

I think the problem here is you failed the 'attitude test' in the reply to the reply you wrote to them giving your version of events, by your own admission you said the reply was 'a bit arsey'. This is where you should have apologised etc and the chances are GTR would have offered you an administrative settlement.

I would write a short concise letter to GTR and suggest you include the following:

- that you are sorry for what happened on the day
- what you have learned from the incident
- apologise for the tone of the initial reply
- state that you are keen to keep the matter out of court and say that you are willing to pay GTR's administrative costs in dealing with the matter plus the outstanding fare.

Don't give a sob story, they will have heard it all before.

If this fails then I on the day of the court case I would arrive early and seek out the prosecutor. It might be possible to negotiate a settlement with the case out of court.

Thanks for the info. I was convinced by others around me that this case would be dropped. Believing what they said, and allowing my anger and indignance to get the better of me, was a huge mistake. I am now taking this very seriously as I should have done in the first place. I am going to write a letter to GTR on Monday attempting to correct this. Would a letter, or email, be better?

Previous cases on this forum suggest this is possible. The advantage to the Train Operating Company is that all the settlement goes to the company; if it went to Court, the proceeds are split between the Court and the company.

Good to know, thanks.

This may seem harsh but the train company may be doing you a big favour for the rest of your life
You seem to be a bit entitled.
Being rude to people who have both power and discretion and don't particularly care what the outcome is is unwise
Disputing £8.00 is pretty much going to make the situation worse.
I suggest you take Hadders's excellent advice and present yourself to the prosecutions dept as a deeply remorseful person and not an arrogant know it all and you might be able to salvage matters

I am looking down the barrel of over a thousand pounds (all the money I've got in the world) in costs, a criminal record and being disbarred from doing voluntary work that I am very proud of and passionate about for ever, because of an honest mistake I made when rushed and nervous on my first day of work that cost GTR a whopping one-pound-fifty. I hope you'll forgive me if I sound a bit miffed, but being nonplussed at the insanity of this situation is not something I'll apologise for, because it is absolutely mental as any reasonable human being would see. It is very easy to judge me from your position, to call me an entitled, arrogant know-it-all, but I ask that in future you have a little empathy. I am not the guy who regularly hops barriers and uses false tickets and all the rest of it - I am not the person who costs GTR a great deal of money a year in unpaid fares. I have never been in trouble with the law in my life. I made a mistake, as we all do from time to time, and in this case I am being squeezed for all of my money by a corporation at a 666% markup from the amount that I actually cost them.

Does the punishment feel as though it fits the crime to you? Do you think you would have the presence of mind to maintain a cool head if this was happening to you? If the answer to both of these questions is 'yes', then I'm afraid we have no more to talk about.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

As for my voluntary work, it is with children and involves an enhanced DBS - so I would be effectively disbarred from doing this work forever.

As with your paid work, I think that this is unlikely to be true, so if you can you should check the position with your voluntary organisation. Do they have a rule saying that an enhanced DBS must be returned absolutely clean - or do they say that the enhanced DBS should show that you are not a risk to the young people that you work with? Of itself, should you be convicted of a railway ticketing irregularity, to my mind that doesn’t make you unfit to work with children: but were you found to be dishonest (by, for example, hiding such a conviction) that might be a different matter. Should you be convicted, my advice would be to share that fact with your voluntary organisation, and be prepared for a difficult discussion when they check that you aren’t a risk - but with the expectation that they would decide there was no risk and you could carry on your voluntary work.

 

[MickMcCarthy17]

As with your paid work, I think that this is unlikely to be true, so if you can you should check the position with your voluntary organisation. Do they have a rule saying that an enhanced DBS must be returned absolutely clean - or do they say that the enhanced DBS should show that you are not a risk to the young people that you work with? Of itself, should you be convicted of a railway ticketing irregularity, to my mind that doesn’t make you unfit to work with children: but were you found to be dishonest (by, for example, hiding such a conviction) that might be a different matter. Should you be convicted, my advice would be to share that fact with your voluntary organisation, and be prepared for a difficult discussion when they check that you aren’t a risk - but with the expectation that they would decide there was no risk and you could carry on your voluntary work.

Without wishing to disclose too much information, although I have been involved with one or two external organisations as well, currently my voluntary work is organised through my actual work. So disclosing to the volunteer organisation would necessarily involve disclosing to my place of work. I feel it would be risky to do so, although I do understand your point that they may show a degree of clemency given the circumstances.

 

[RPI]

You've been summonsed for a byelaw offence, I very much doubt you'd have to declare a byelaw conviction anyway as it is immediately spent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am looking down the barrel of over a thousand pounds (all the money I've got in the world) in costs, a criminal record and being disbarred from doing voluntary work that I am very proud of and passionate about for ever, because of an honest mistake I made when rushed and nervous on my first day of work that cost GTR a whopping one-pound-fifty.

If that voluntary work happens to be Scouting, I would be absolutely astonished if one conviction of that kind would result in a bar.

You can find the Scout Association's outline criteria for processing DBS checks here:

Scouts

Policy, Organisation and Rules

www.scouts.org.uk

...only very serious stuff is an absolute bar. For something like fare dodging, I suspect it would either fit in the "ignored" green category, or perhaps because it could indicate a degree of dishonesty there would be a discussion about it with the District Commissioner, and if you clearly regretted it (seriously, getting angry or bitter about it being unfair, even if it is a bit, is not going to further your case anywhere) it would be passed through.

The Scout Assocation is notoriously picky about convictions etc, so I would be amazed if any other voluntary organisation was more strict than they are.

Sorry, perhaps this wasn't clear. I actually changed at B, so I don't think this defence would work since when I boarded at B, I won't have had a valid ticket. As for the difference in cash, I'm less worried about the actual difference and more worried about that fact that this increased amount (from £1.50 which I believe is the true amount) factored into the decision to prosecute.

Unlikely; I've hear of TOCs prosecuting (or at least attempt it) where the fare was the same, i.e. £0 lost.

 

[island]

You've been summonsed for a byelaw offence, I very much doubt you'd have to declare a byelaw conviction anyway as it is immediately spent.

It's not "immediately spent" (unless one receives an absolute discharge) but it's not recordable.

I agree with the substance of what you and others are saying – one conviction for a minor fare evasion offence is extraordinarily unlikely to result in being removed from a job or volunteer role, as long as it is appropriate disclosed. Even in the unlikely event that the voluntary organisation did consider this a problem, as long as you stay out of further trouble the conviction will be filtered out of even an enhanced check after some number of years.

 

[30907]

You've been summonsed for a byelaw offence, I very much doubt you'd have to declare a byelaw conviction anyway as it is immediately spent.

A byelaw conviction is a non-recordable offence. It should therefore not show up on an Enhanced DBS. If by error it does, Bletchleyite has linked the Scout Association policy - but any reputable organisation should carry out a risk assessment based on the specific voluntary work you do and decide on that basis.
You must declare any conviction on the self-declaration if asked.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not "immediately spent" (unless one receives an absolute discharge) but it's not recordable.

Ah, is it a Byelaw offence, not RoRA, he's been summoned for? My misunderstanding.

That would not, if I understand correctly, appear on an enhanced DBS because it is not recordable, as you say. It's to all intents and purposes just a means of imposing a financial penalty through a Court.

A byelaw conviction is a non-recordable offence. It should therefore not show up on an Enhanced DBS. If by error it does, Bletchleyite has linked the Scout Association policy - but any reputable organisation should carry out a risk assessment based on the specific voluntary work you do and decide on that basis.
You must declare any conviction on the self-declaration if asked.

FWIW, it'd be well worth being more careful in future. Most people would see one offence, if it was a recordable one (RoRA), as a mistake that went a bit far. But if you had several, that would be a clear indicator of dishonesty (wilful fare evasion).

 

[SteveM70]

I hope you'll forgive me if I sound a bit miffed, but being nonplussed at the insanity of this situation is not something I'll apologise for, because it is absolutely mental as any reasonable human being would see. It is very easy to judge me from your position, to call me an entitled, arrogant know-it-all, but I ask that in future you have a little empathy.

I realise this will probably sound patronising to you, but there’s a world of difference between *feeling* miffed, and thinking that what’s happened is “absolutely mental”, and *saying it* to the only people who have the power to deal with this in a way you might see as not being “absolutely mental”.

If you’d overstayed a parking ticket by a few minutes, arrived back to see a parking warden about to start ticketing your car, do you think being “a bit arsey” would make him more or less likely to ticket you?

I don’t think there’s a week goes by where I don’t get frustrated at something or somebody. General senior management at work. But I figured out pretty early on that sometimes these frustrations are best kept to myself

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don’t think there’s a week goes by where I don’t get frustrated at something or somebody. General senior management at work. But I figured out pretty early on that sometimes these frustrations are best kept to myself

Indeed. This is what is commonly referred to here as the "attitude test", and failing said "test" has a habit, in most areas of life but particularly the railway, in resulting in things being done (a) strictly by "the book", and (b) in the most severe way that "the book" allows for. Whereas being nice about things can (but doesn't always) result in leniency.

 

[011976091]

Now they are threatening me with a £1000 fine (+ £135 prosecution costs + £9 fare) and a criminal record.

In any of the correspondence, do you have a case reference and telephone number for the department dealing with this?

 

[Haywain]

In any of the correspondence, do you have a case reference and telephone number for the department dealing with this?

The OP has communicated with GTR already and intends doing so again so it seems reasonable to assume he does, but given his statements about “getting arsey” I would not be advising him to phone.

 

[WesternLancer]

First of all thank you all for your swift and informative replies.

I will attempt to address them all.

Sorry, perhaps this wasn't clear. I actually changed at B, so I don't think this defence would work since when I boarded at B, I won't have had a valid ticket. As for the difference in cash, I'm less worried about the actual difference and more worried about that fact that this increased amount (from £1.50 which I believe is the true amount) factored into the decision to prosecute. As for how often I make the journey, not very often at the moment with COVID but maybe in the new year I'll be making it weekly. It's hard to say.

No, Mick McCarthy is the former manager of Ipswich Town F.C.

As above, the train went from A to B, where I changed, and went from B to C.

Thank you for the information. It's good to know that I may be able to seek and out-of-court settlement on my own, as the solicitors seem to generally charge about £600 for this. It's also good to know that my work may be lenient with me if convicted, but of course I'd rather avoid the complications altogether. As for my voluntary work, it is with children and involves an enhanced DBS - so I would be effectively disbarred from doing this work forever.

Thanks for the info. I was convinced by others around me that this case would be dropped. Believing what they said, and allowing my anger and indignance to get the better of me, was a huge mistake. I am now taking this very seriously as I should have done in the first place. I am going to write a letter to GTR on Monday attempting to correct this. Would a letter, or email, be better?

Good to know, thanks.

I am looking down the barrel of over a thousand pounds (all the money I've got in the world) in costs, a criminal record and being disbarred from doing voluntary work that I am very proud of and passionate about for ever, because of an honest mistake I made when rushed and nervous on my first day of work that cost GTR a whopping one-pound-fifty. I hope you'll forgive me if I sound a bit miffed, but being nonplussed at the insanity of this situation is not something I'll apologise for, because it is absolutely mental as any reasonable human being would see. It is very easy to judge me from your position, to call me an entitled, arrogant know-it-all, but I ask that in future you have a little empathy. I am not the guy who regularly hops barriers and uses false tickets and all the rest of it - I am not the person who costs GTR a great deal of money a year in unpaid fares. I have never been in trouble with the law in my life. I made a mistake, as we all do from time to time, and in this case I am being squeezed for all of my money by a corporation at a 666% markup from the amount that I actually cost them.

Does the punishment feel as though it fits the crime to you? Do you think you would have the presence of mind to maintain a cool head if this was happening to you? If the answer to both of these questions is 'yes', then I'm afraid we have no more to talk about.

You ask if better to e-mail or letter.

I would e-mail, but also print a copy of e-mail and post Registered Post (or reformat e-mail as letter and post) - shows you are taking it seriously too.
Do not phone, waste of time and no written record of conversation.

Keep it short. Content ideas above are what to aim for. You could start by referencing back in a tone such as "I think now understand more clearly why the ticket I had was not valid at the point I spoke to your staff...".or some such and don't get into the £1.50 / £8 / £9 - focus on your apology and willingness to pay the sum they believe you owe and their costs to resolve and close the matter.

And when speaking to your boss, think about how you can work from home more if poss and thus deny GTR some revenue and thereby save the sum you have had to pay out

Good luck - and do come back if further advice needed as this progresses (some people have posted their draft apology letters on here for feedback for example)