Sunday trading laws

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Zoe, 8 Nov 2011.

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  1. Zoe

    Zoe Established Member

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    In England and Wales large stores are restricted to 6 hours opening on Sundays. In Scotland there is no restriction and they can open 24/7. The limited hours on Sunday can be frustrating but there is also the issue that the workers deserve time off so are these restrictions in England and Wales a great idea as they keep Sunday special or are they simply archaic now in 2011?
     
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  3. SteamPower

    SteamPower Member

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    I think the restriction on Sunday trading hours is a good thing and also think The Entertainer have got the right idea not opening at all that day therefore keeping it special. What is your opinion on trains not running on Christmas day and Boxing day?
     
  4. Minilad

    Minilad Established Member

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    I am not that fussed about what hours shops open on a Sunday. But the fact nothing opens on Easter Sunday has caught me out a few times
     
  5. Zoe

    Zoe Established Member

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    It does seem very strange that nothing runs when a service does run in most of Europe. People do need to travel on those days. There are however other threads discussing this.
     
  6. starrymarkb

    starrymarkb Established Member

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    Its only shop workers who are entitled to reduced hours, for our office it is just another day (though my shift is an hour shorter on a Sunday but that is more due to demand)
     
  7. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    Why should Sundays be any different to the rest of the week? Obviously it's the weekend so people can choose to open, and lots don't have to go to work, but there are a lot of people who do work weekends which makes Sunday trading laws quite inconvenient.


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  8. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

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    Its an anachronism. Staff deserve time off but would they prefer more hours? Not much can be done until public transport reaches at least a Saturday service
     
  9. richw

    richw Established Member

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    Sunday trading laws were originally set due to religious reasons, how many people in 2011 as a preportion of the population are actual regular church goers? They were set to allow staff guaranteed finish to attend as a minimum Sunday evening church services. Having worked previously for a major restaurant chain, we were open till 11pm on Sundays, and just gave those who wished to go church Sundays off guaranteed.

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  10. Zoe

    Zoe Established Member

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    But it won't do if there isn't the demand for it. Not everyone uses public transport to go shopping though, some people walk.
     
  11. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

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    I was thinking of staff. Your typical retail staff (who'd be most affected by any change) aren't well paid and I suspect a fair number take public transport
     
  12. Zoe

    Zoe Established Member

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    It seems to work in Scotland. In quite a few areas in England and Wales stores are open 24 hours during the week even though buses stop in the early evening. At least some of the stores must be within walking distance for the staff. Even for the hours of Sunday trading that are allowed now, the bus service is often quite poor but the staff still get there.
     
  13. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    I do find sunday trading laws a bit stupid especially since if i want to shop in tesco on a sunday I have to wait til at least 11am.

    If stores have staff who wish to work on sundays and for longer hours then i dont think they should be stopped.

    I know sundays trading laws were brought in for religious reeasons but I do not think they really have a place now, especially with the number of people going to church decreasing. (Personally I am against all religon since a lot of the problems in the world as caused by it.)



    My local bus service didnt used to start running til after 13:00 on sundays til 2005 before it started running from 8am with a frequency of very 90 minutes compared to every 15-20 minutes on weekdays. Now the sunday service is hourly although there is talk of it going up to every 40 minutes.

    There area number of routes which didnt operate on sundays til they trialed it back in 2007 on the run up to christmas and some of the services have proved popular so much that they operate commercially on sundays (The terrible train service on sundays has certainly helped some of these routes)
     
  14. Smethwickian

    Smethwickian Member

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    If workers in any line of work need to be protected from unfair contracts or hours, then I am sure there are other laws to do so, such as European working time directives.

    There is no reason whatsoever for retailing to be singled out one day per week by a religiously-based law in what is supposed to be a modern, democratic, multi-cultural and multi-faith western society in which Government ought to be entirely secular.

    I do not share any organised religious belief, and it is my right, supposedly, not to do so in this day and age. Yet if I owned a retail business of the size encompassed by Sunday trading legislation, my freedom to trade would be restricted by a Christian-orientated piece of legislation.

    Even as a mere customer, my choices would be restricted even if I want to buy things and a retailer happily wants to sell them to me at 7am or 7pm on a Sunday, because of some ancient faith-based ritual.
     
  15. Ivo

    Ivo Established Member

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    When I was in Galashiels last year I was shocked to learn that the Tesco there was open 24/7. I had no idea that Scotland had different Laws concerning Sunday working times!

    The whole practice is archaic and out-of-place. Yes, it relates to Christianity. Fine. But why should the minority - I would be very surprised if it was no a minority, and quite a significant one at that - who actually observe general Sunday rest days with regards to their religion or whatever cause the rest of us to lose out? Indeed, if football can take place at any given time (more or less anyway) on a Sunday, then why should one of the other principal social activities - i.e. shopping - be limited? Nowadays many larger stores have more localised units anyway (Tesco Express, Sainsbury's Local, etc), which get around this restriction, so why not just relax the Law and allow service to continue as normal, and as is true north of the border?

    As an extra, what is stopping people from casually overstepping the border in order to access a Scottish superstore when English ones should be closed? I think I can safely say that, unless there is a phycisal or legal restriction in place, if I lived in Carlisle I would not exactly be against the idea of heading north to do my weekly shop if it meant I could do it on a Sunday.
     
  16. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    I share the same view's. I remember when someone mentioned getting rid of it in the local newspaper abotut 2 years ago you had all those from the church coming out and moaning saying it was against god etc.

    i think things like that is what causes me and others to resent christianity
     
  17. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

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    I bet if we wanted to repeal Sunday trading laws we'd need to find evidence. I bet we'd not get away with the Christian line of saying it's our faith, we're not required to provide evidence despite no evidence to support many (all?) of their claims - you just don't understand faith :roll:

    Not to mention the amount of money religion is sucking out of the Treasury in the form of tax rebates to fund their propaganda and lies
     
  18. Hydro

    Hydro Established Member

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    Sometimes Sunday is the only day of the week I can get all my administration, shopping and other such management of life duties done; I, and others of my ilk, would welcome this Sunday shut down being abolished.

    I'd also like banks to remain open later and doctor's surgeries to be open 7 days a week til late. Working life for people is moving more towards society working every hour of every day and not just having Friday 5pm to Monday 9am available.
     
  19. michael769

    michael769 Established Member

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    While it is true that shops in Scotland can be 24/7 the vast majority of stores do restrict their hours on a Sunday. In my area most stores do 11-4 with newsagents and bigger stores doing 10-5. It's only really supermarkets and DIY outlets that go beyond that.

    As for staff time off, it is noticeable that that most stores have different staff at the weekend than they do during the week, in general I find that the staff at the weekends are younger which fits in the the stereotype of students working at the weekend. So I don't believe that people are being made to work excessively. When it comes to part time work shops are often very flexible in terms of letting people choose the hours that suit them.

    The reality is that unregulated Sunday opening simply provides people greater opportunities to find work that fits their needs and lifestyle.
     
  20. scotsman

    scotsman Established Member

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    It always gets to me when I go down south and find shops shut early. Or not even open.

    Up here, my nearest supermarkets are 7am-10pm, the next nearest is 24/7

    Down south, the equivalents would be 8am-9pm and 7am-10pm. On a Sunday, those would shut at 6pm. Mine shuts at 9pm.

    It seems pointless and annoying to me.
     
  21. Zoe

    Zoe Established Member

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    You would be lucky to find one that closes at 6 PM as they would have to wait until 12 PM to open as trade is limited to 6 hours. Many close at 4 PM as they open at 10 AM. There are a lot of stores in England and Wales though do open 24 hours from Monday to Saturday.
     
  22. richw

    richw Established Member

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    A Plymouth based businessman's nationwide department stores (kind of), store near me were opening 11-7 on a Sunday a while back (a friend worked there). It was advertised at 11-5, but every Sunday a handwritten poster was put up saying they would remain open until 7pm
     
  23. Butts

    Butts Established Member

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    It is handy having unrestricted Trading Hours on a Sunday - at least for shoppers in Scotland.

    As a previous contributor mentioned not all outlets avail themselves of the opportunity to "open all hours".

    At least they have the choice.

    I wonder if a lot of people who objected to the introduction of "Sunday Trading" in England and Wales are now amongst those "cramming the isles" on the sabbath.

    There are some areas "England has the edge" - a lot of Supermarkets up here are closed completely on New Years Day.

    Is USDAW are against the extension of Sunday Trading in England and Wales ask what they are doing in Scotland to reduce the trading hours on Sunday up here.

    The first word begins with F and the second is All - Hypocrites :p
     
    Last edited: 8 Nov 2011
  24. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Most, if not all, shops in central London are open Midday - 6pm on a Sunday (11.30am open for browsing).

    This seems different from everywhere else where the opening hours are either 10am - 4pm or 11am - 5pm.
     
  25. Clint

    Clint Member

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    I think there should still be restricted hours on a Sunday.

    Although historically this was due to the "sabbath" I think it would be a slippery slope if we got rid of it.

    When relaxing the Sunday trading laws was first discussed it was proposed that enhanced wages for working on a Sunday would be protected.

    How many people know anyone who gets double-time for working on a Sunday?

    I'm sure plenty of retail employers would love to make Sunday just like any other day of the week. If that happens how long before other places such as offices decide that having a "weekend" for the workers is just getting in the way of profits?

    Will the lives of people in this country really be enhanced if we allowed all the stores to be open all day on Sundays?

    No. The supermarkets are open for 6 hours as it is. If that's not enough time for you to get some shopping you should be more organised.

    It's the people who work night shifts that you want to feel sorry for. They might feel like a beer after work but there's no pubs open.
     
  26. Butts

    Butts Established Member

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    It's already operating "due north" and does not appear to have destroyed the moral fabric of society.

    If you want a beer after a nightshift try Aberdeen or similar "fishing ports" pubs open for the trawlers returning :p
     
  27. scotsman

    scotsman Established Member

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    What about ferries sailing on a Sunday? Surely no-one would be against that?

    Sadly not. The religious junta on Lewis and Harris managed to make their islands even more isolated by vehemently objecting to any plans for Sunday sailings.

    I was there for the first Sunday sailing from Lewis - it left at 1430, well after all church services were finished. There were, from what I could tell, 14 protesters - roughly the same number of media workers covering the event. The best estimate of islanders (often CalMac's most vocal critics) lining the foreshore to cheer the ship on are estimated to be around the 600 mark, not bad for a town of 8,000.

    Afterwards, we headed for the only open shop on the island - nearly everyone else had the same idea...

    Need I say more?
     
  28. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    I recall when the current Sunday trading laws were introduced it was a compromise arrangement and the law was only revised in the first place because so many shops were flouting the previous set of laws that were supposed to prevent them from opening on a Sunday in the first place...
     
  29. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    The fines were pathetic, so it was worth paying them every week than close.
     
  30. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Had this question been asked a few years ago, I'd have said ''no.'' The laws restricting opening hours only apply to stores of a certain size, and typically smaller shops were always independent stores thus the Sunday hours helped them to a limited extent against the supermarkets.

    With the growth of the major supermarkets into the convenience sector, I'm not so sure it matters any more. In Birmingham City Centre alone there are 6 branches of Tesco Express with one more currently under construction and 1 Tesco Metro.
     
  31. causton

    causton Established Member

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    They still are! I know some places near where I work that opened later, I heard they make many many times over the profit in one extra hour than the fine they *might* get (if they find out) for being open the extra hour!


    As the role of a weekend part-time shop assistant, I would welcome the laws to be relaxed so department stores and other stores like that (clothing, DIY, etc) should be open a couple more hours, but I would like it if supermarkets open 24 hours could be open as long as possible on Sundays as well!

    Although, I do like the Sunday evenings without customers, gives us a bit of time to clean up the shop properly ;)
     
    Last edited: 8 Nov 2011
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