Super off peak single validity on LNER

[Royston Vasey]

On Sunday I will travel to Kings Cross from Royston. I hold a Super Off Peak Single with NSE discount priced £12.45.

The paper ticket I hold does not state GN&TL only, it points to restrictions FB which solely relate to its non-validity on weekdays.

BR Fares uses the term "Super off peak for TL&GN" but this doesn't explicitly state "Not valid on LNER" anywhere in the published or unpublished conditions, and there is nothing printed on the ticket stating an operator restriction. Is "For TL&GN" itself the prohibition?

CBB​	Route .​	Validity ON DATE SHOWN Restrictions FB SUPER OFF-PEAK FOR TL&GN​	Adult NSE £12.45​	Child CHNSE £3.55​	◊​
VALID SATURDAY, SUNDAY AND BANK HOLIDAYS.​ Fare Setter: THAMESLINK AND GT NORTHERN TL​

https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail...rt=on&flow=1&multi=1&fare=12&rte=1000&tkt=CBB

Am I right in suspecting that this is not technically valid on an LNER connection at Stevenage, despite no unequivocal prohibition either on the ticket, the public restrictions or the deeper data accessible via BR Fares? I cannot generate an itinerary with this ticket that includes a leg on LNER, I am offered an Anytime Day Single (NSE) at £18.20. If I did travel on LNER, and the route was not valid, am I right that the only available action to the TOC is an excess to the Anytime Day Single?

 

[Haywain]

Am I right in suspecting that this is not technically valid on an LNER connection at Stevenage,

No, you are completely wrong. You will be unable to generate an itinerary including LNER because of the compulsory reservation flag on LNER services and there being no relevant quota for these tickets (it is unclear whether this is the fault of LNER or GTR). There is no restriction on using the ticket on LNER services other than any time restrictions that might apply to GTR services as well.

If I did travel on LNER, and the route was not valid, am I right that the only available action to the TOC is an excess to the Anytime Day Single?

This is not relevant.

 

[jfollows]

Route “.” meaning “any permitted” is not restricted to any operator, it’s just priced by ‘FCC THAMESLINK AND GT NORTHERN TL’

 

[yorkie]

Indeed it is valid on LNER.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Super! Many thanks

I understood the fare was set by TL&GN but was confused by the wording "Super Off Peak Single for TL&GN" on BRFares.

No, you are completely wrong. You will be unable to generate an itinerary including LNER because of the compulsory reservation flag on LNER services and there being no relevant quota for these tickets (it is unclear whether this is the fault of LNER or GTR). There is no restriction on using the ticket on LNER services other than any time restrictions that might apply to GTR services as well.

This is not relevant.

Very helpful and the misuse of compulsory reservations explains it.

 

[bcarmicle]

I understood the fare was set by TL&GN but was confused by the wording "Super Off Peak Single for TL&GN" on BRFares.

I believe this is just a note for internal use (though may explain why there is no reservation availability).

 

[Haywain]

I understood the fare was set by TL&GN but was confused by the wording "Super Off Peak Single for TL&GN" on BRFares.

You should always be aware that, while being extremely useful, BRFares is not an official source of information. As you have seen, it can sometimes tell you more than you need to know, causing confusion.

 

[Hadders]

LNER has been playing silly buggers with reservations on the weekend super off peak tickets between Stevenage and Kings Cross for years.

 

[Royston Vasey]

So here's a question. This is far from the only example where a valid ticket cannot be sold for a certain train, and often for good reasons (such as crowd control and managing local vs intercity flows).

No doubt RailUK Tickets/Trainsplit and every other booking site has a robust algorithm that takes the restriction codes of that ticket, that decides this ticket is valid on an LNER train, as would the guard.

No reservations are made available for that flow and the train is marked reservations compulsory, so a reservation cannot be offered. Fine. Some of us know ways around this, like buying an off peak return from Haymarket instead of Edinburgh, or buying a flexible ticket for the 11:00 fully intending to travel on the 10:30 which is "sold out".

But the ticket is valid and the software can easily deduce this.

What is to stop a booking engine selling a ticket and suggesting an itinerary (suggesting being the operative word) that includes the LNER train but stating that a reservation is not possible? With a "buyer beware" they may have to stand or be asked to take an alternative - not likely on a typical Sunday morning but always possible for play off finals etc.

I'm sure it would irritate RDG and the TOCs but would the ticket vendor lose their accreditation for selling a valid ticket and suggesting an itinerary like mine without a reservation? Is it just the done thing or is it a condition of accreditation that "reservation compulsory" is sacrosanct?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Any journey planning TIS capable of making a reservation issuing a ticket without a reservation on a train marked compulsory reservation in the data feed would fail/lose accreditation.

 

[Haywain]

It would be interesting to know if the ticket type has a (normal) reservation quota allocated to it.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Any journey planning TIS capable of making a reservation issuing a ticket without a reservation on a train marked compulsory reservation in the data feed would fail/lose accreditation.

This is what I expected, cheers. Is it in the best interests of the customer? Maybe not always!

 

[CyrusWuff]

It would be interesting to know if the ticket type has a (normal) reservation quota allocated to it.

Given it's not a ticket type that LNER use on flows they own, I suspect not. Sadly I'm not au fait with RARS (or NRS for that matter) so don't know if there's an equivalent of the old CRS F2 "default" quota for walk-up Standard Class tickets. (Sometimes I miss CRS, except for that one time someone managed to typo the code for Stockport as STP instead of SPT and broke things by claiming a 42 minute journey time between Sheffield and St Pancras as a result. )

 

[yorkie]

Any journey planning TIS capable of making a reservation issuing a ticket without a reservation on a train marked compulsory reservation in the data feed would fail/lose accreditation.

Have RDG confirmed this?

If so, this could be the next class action claim...

 

[Hadders]

Have RDG confirmed this?

If so, this could be the next class action claim...

It's been happening around 10 years.

I recall purchasing tickets for my brother and (then train mad) nephews who wanted to travel by train from Kings Cross to Stevenage to visit me on a Saturday. I wanted to book a table seat on the LNER train. Couldn't do it online so had to get Nigel in the Stevenage LNER Travel Centre to sort it out.

My youngest nephew would've been about three at the time - he's 13 now!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Have RDG confirmed this?

If so, this could be the next class action claim...

No thats just a slightly informed opinion

 

[Watershed]

Have RDG confirmed this?

If so, this could be the next class action claim...

I mean, it's in the accreditation requirement documents. If lots of customers ended up complaining about not having seat reservations, you can be sure that LNER would be on the case sharpish, no doubt claiming it is "harming their revenue managament" or somesuch excuse.

 

[All Line Rover]

Any journey planning TIS capable of making a reservation issuing a ticket without a reservation on a train marked compulsory reservation in the data feed would fail/lose accreditation.

Wow. That's exposing the retailer to some substantial potential consumer rights liabilities.