Super-off-peak travelcard before 9:30am + travelcard groupsave

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soil

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A super-off-peak one-day travel card valid from Esher, Surrey, costs £11.80. With groupsave 4, the cost is just £5.90 per person.

From Surbiton, the next stop, in London Zone 6, a zone 1-6 off peak travelcard costs £8.50 per person with no groupsave possible.

Questions:

1. are there any cheaper travelcards than this at £11.80 that would provide cheaper travel?
2. is a (super-)off-peak travelcard valid within London all day?

E.g.,

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=ESH&dest=WAT&grpd=0035&rlc= &rte=0&ldn=0&tkt=STO

Super Off Peak Day journeys
To/From/Via London Terminals and/or Clapham Junction.
Available as listed below, Monday-Friday; and any train at weekends and public holidays.

TOWARDS LONDON:
By any train timed to arrive at London Terminals (not Vauxhall) at 1200 or later.

This obviously restricts you in terms of trains between Esher and Surbiton (at least), but could you use it (say) to travel on the central line between Epping and Oxford Circus at 7:30am? (Noting that z1-6 anytime Lonon travelcard is £15.80)

For London:
Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard:
Valid for travel throughout the selected London Fare Zones as described in the validity code on the date shown on the ticket and until 0429 the following day.
 
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MikeWh

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My understanding is that within zones 1-6 the off-peak travelcard is valid between 0930 and 0429 the next day. I don't believe there is any further restriction for Super off-peak tickets when being used within the zones. You certainly cannot use any off-peak travelcard before 0930 unless it is a weekend or bank holiday.
 

island

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You can't use that Travelcard before 0930, within the zones or otherwise, unless it's a weekend.

A cheaper option to get a Groupsave Travelcard would be Epsom to London Zones 1-6, route SOUTHERN ONLY, costing £4.85 each or £19.40 for 4. Despite the route, it's valid within the zones on any TOC.
 

soil

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Does the 'must stay with group' restriction apply within the london zones, or only outside?

In other words is it allowable for four strangers at say Surbiton to split a groupsave travelcard Epsom-Zone U1256 Southern-Only for £4.85 each and go their separate ways?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just noticed that the TOCs say

'GroupSave is valid on Off-Peak Day Travelcards for travel only from stations outside of the London area (not for purchase in the London Fares Zones 1-6).'

Not sure if this is enforced?
 
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bb21

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Does the 'must stay with group' restriction apply within the london zones, or only outside?

In other words is it allowable for four strangers at say Surbiton to split a groupsave travelcard Epsom-Zone U1256 Southern-Only for £4.85 each and go their separate ways?
Must stay together at all times.
 

The Colonel

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Does the 'must stay with group' restriction apply within the london zones, or only outside?

In other words is it allowable for four strangers at say Surbiton to split a groupsave travelcard Epsom-Zone U1256 Southern-Only for £4.85 each and go their separate ways?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just noticed that the TOCs say

'GroupSave is valid on Off-Peak Day Travelcards for travel only from stations outside of the London area (not for purchase in the London Fares Zones 1-6).'

Not sure if this is enforced?
Group must stay together at ALL times. So NO to Surbition scenario.

I'm pretty sure the system won't sell a GS3/4 discount inboundary travelcard - I'll try it tomorrow to check.

Right I've just tried it and no discount is possible. However the STAR system will let you issue 3 travelcards, press the GS3 button and give fares, which are the same as 3 x T/cards. The tickets print with no GS3 annotations however.
 
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island

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Does the 'must stay with group' restriction apply within the london zones, or only outside?

In other words is it allowable for four strangers at say Surbiton to split a groupsave travelcard Epsom-Zone U1256 Southern-Only for £4.85 each and go their separate ways?
No, per above. They must be together.

And on a point of pedantry, the Travelcard destination is London Zones 1-6 (0035) and not Zone U1256 Londn (0786).
 

soil

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My understanding is that within zones 1-6 the off-peak travelcard is valid between 0930 and 0429 the next day. I don't believe there is any further restriction for Super off-peak tickets when being used within the zones. You certainly cannot use any off-peak travelcard before 0930 unless it is a weekend or bank holiday.
It seems not

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/travelcards_oyster.html

"Travelcards purchased outside of the London Fare Zones area:

Off-Peak Day Travelcards are valid for travel from whenever Off-Peak fares become available from your station – check our Journey Planner to see whether an Off-Peak fare is available when you wish to travel. "

So for instance the first Off-Peak train from Epsom to London (Victoria) is the 09:13.

So you could it seems to me that you could use the ticket anywhere in London from 09:13 (not withstanding that the restriction is "any train scheduled to arrive London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at or after 0950."), as this is when off-peak fares become available from Epsom.

Presumably Super-Off-Peak Travelcards would have the same restriction; i.e. only valid when the Super-Off-Peak fares are valid, although this isn't stated.
 

LexyBoy

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soil, I believe that paragraph is intended as a simple summary of the validity of outboundary Travelcards for their usual users - i.e. those travelling from the named station to London. The ticket restrictions apply solely to the rail leg, the Travelcard element is covered by the blanket "after 0930" restriction.

The actual ticket restriction is (for the Southern Only Travelcard):
Restriction applies: Monday to
Friday only. No travel
restrictions on other days.

OUTWARD TRAVEL

By any train scheduled to
arrive London Terminals or
Kensington Olympia at or after
0950.

RETURN TRAVEL

By any train
Additionally the relevant part of the general restriction on this ticket type (ODT) is:
Off-Peak Day Travelcards
(First and Standard) and
Family Travelcards:
Valid for travel throughout
the selected London Fare Zones
from 0930 Mondays to Fridays
(0001 Saturdays, Sundays and
Public Holidays) on the day of
validity and until 0429 the
following day, by which time
all travel must be completed.
I believe this applies equally to Super Off Peak Travelcards - they are valid within the Zones from 0930, regardless of when the outboundary part is valid. I don't know how any BoJ restrictions would affect this though.
 

soil

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It's a bit odd.

From Ewell East (z6) the first off-peak train is 9:46, arriving 10:20
From Epsom (Surrey) it's the 09:13 (calling Ewell East 09:17), arriving 09:52

And incidentally the cheaper off-peak travelcard has a Southern-only restriction.

So I guess this means that it's valid within the boundaries before 09:30 only on Southern trains to London Terminals. After 09:30 you could use it e.g. from Ewell West (which is on the Southwest Trains line) to London Terminals.

But you could use it e.g. on the 09:06 from Carshalton Beeches to Victoria (arriving at 09:58)
 

bb21

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It's a bit odd.
An inboundary Off-Peak Day Travelcard will be valid from 0930, wherever the origin.

An outboundary (Super) Off-Peak Day Travelcard will have its own restrictions depending on the origin. It might be earlier or later than the inboundary one.

It is not odd, just that they have differing terms.
 

LexyBoy

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An inboundary Off-Peak Day Travelcard will be valid from 0930, wherever the origin.

An outboundary (Super) Off-Peak Day Travelcard will have its own restrictions depending on the origin. It might be earlier or later than the inboundary one.

It is not odd, just that they have differing terms.
The "odd" part is that an outboundary Travelcard can be valid within the Zones according to the specific restriction (on trains on a permitted route to and arriving in London Terminals before the stated time) but not according to the general restrictions mer ODT tickets.

Just a quirk of how the restrictions for a ticket to London Terminals are applied to a ticket with wider validity.
 
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