Supermarkets and Covid-19

[VauxhallandI]

No idea, but given how few people aren't wearing them (around here at least), I doubt it.

That's not stopped the supermarkets though - Tesco now have a door bully as of this week, but whenever I go in there I rarely see more than one other person without a mask (often none). There was no need to step up the enforcement, and doing so just comes aross as bullying.

Exactly I don’t see anyone else in my Tesco apart from a member of staff who has a lanyard.

@nedchester obviously sees hundreds of them every week which will explain why he’s so fixated with it rather than spending time pointing his finger at people who are having parties etc.

 

[Cdd89]

I think part of the reason people on Twitter have become so mask-obsessed (and obnoxious to those with disabilities) is because Twitter is international, so they read posts by people in the US (where “if you can’t wear a mask you shouldn’t be in supermarkets” is considered acceptable, somehow), and parrot that over here.

 

[DB]

I think part of the reason people on Twitter have become so mask-obsessed (and obnoxious to those with disabilities) is because Twitter is international, so they read posts by people in the US (where “if you can’t wear a mask you shouldn’t be in supermarkets” is considered acceptable, somehow), and parrot that over here.

The US election hasn't helped either - masks was clearly something which Biden thought would win him votes so he really pushed his stance on this.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Is this the same Budgens who were cashing in on the virus?

A Budgens store has been accused of cashing in on the coronavirus pandemic by selling toilet paper at a massively inflated price. A shop in Crystal Palace, south London is said to be charging £4 for a four-roll pack of Andrex Supreme Quilts toilet roll – despite a £2.50 RRP sign on the packaging.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/17/budg...-toilet-roll-price-hike-12409909/?ito=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

Budgens 'cashing in on coronavirus crisis' with toilet roll price hike

A store in south London is said to be charging £4 for a four-roll pack of Andrex Supreme Quilts toilet roll - despite a £2.50 RRP sign on the packaging.

metro.co.uk

 

[nedchester]

Exactly I don’t see anyone else in my Tesco apart from a member of staff who has a lanyard.

@nedchester obviously sees hundreds of them every week which will explain why he’s so fixated with it rather than spending time pointing his finger at people who are having parties etc.

I see more people not wearing masks than having parties.

Of course you think I’m a mask zealot which I’m not I just think a significant number of people are being awkward.

Examples are Merseyrail man in the summer and in the more public domain Laurence Fox.

 

[Darandio]

Is this the same Budgens who were cashing in on the virus?

Exactly the same branch.

 

[DB]

I see more people not wearing masks than having parties.

Of course you think I’m a mask zealot which I’m not I just think a significant number of people are being awkward.

Examples are Merseyrail man in the summer and in the more public domain Laurence Fox.

That's because they'll be having their parties behind closed doors.

It's ridiculous how fixated some people have become on masks despite the lack of evidence that they make any difference. If there's no evidence that they are reducing infection rates (which there isn't) what does it matter whether or not people wear them?

They were introduced in shops when cases were (due to the time of year) at a low ebb, with the claim that they would allow a return to normal to begin, and get people back into shops. All they actually did was create a two-tier society, and lead to a fixation on them by a very vocal minority who regard anyone not wearing a mask as a walking bio-hazard.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Is this the same Budgens who were cashing in on the virus?

A Budgens store has been accused of cashing in on the coronavirus pandemic by selling toilet paper at a massively inflated price. A shop in Crystal Palace, south London is said to be charging £4 for a four-roll pack of Andrex Supreme Quilts toilet roll – despite a £2.50 RRP sign on the packaging.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/17/budg...-toilet-roll-price-hike-12409909/?ito=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

Budgens 'cashing in on coronavirus crisis' with toilet roll price hike

A store in south London is said to be charging £4 for a four-roll pack of Andrex Supreme Quilts toilet roll - despite a £2.50 RRP sign on the packaging.

metro.co.uk

£5.25 at the local Sainsburys for a 9-pack of the same toilet roll...

 

[VauxhallandI]

I see more people not wearing masks than having parties.

Of course you think I’m a mask zealot which I’m not I just think a significant number of people are being awkward.

Examples are Merseyrail man in the summer and in the more public domain Laurence Fox.

Your example is one bloke 7 months ago not great.

Why don’t you seek out those that are doing the damage that you fear then instead of picking examples where when the card is turned over might be disabled. It’s not all big tattooed mockney oiks you know.

What I’d love to know is your movements over the last four/five weeks so I can pick holes in what I’m not comfortable with.

I will give you mine, I’ve been around the estate and around the regional park at the end of the estate about 6 times.

I’ve been to a Tesco Metro approx 8 times, duration of each visit about ten minutes and I’ve also been to the post office 3 times again duration probably nearer 5 mins

The rest of the time I’ve been sat at a desk working in a role to keep the UKs CNI (critical national infrastructure) running so the country doesn’t descend into a zombie apocalypse or I have been sitting on the couch.

The thanks for this behaviour is I get anger and finer pointing from strangers because I ave the luck of having a few conditions

Well well done to all the twitterati

Do you realise how angry I am about this treatment? I’m most livid I’ve ever been, it’s not even like I am breaking the rules

£5.25 at the local Sainsburys for a 9-pack of the same toilet roll...

Both as bad each other then?

 

[nedchester]

That's because they'll be having their parties behind closed doors.

It's ridiculous how fixated some people have become on masks despite the lack of evidence that they make any difference. If there's no evidence that they are reducing infection rates (which there isn't) what does it matter whether or not people wear them?

They were introduced in shops when cases were (due to the time of year) at a low ebb, with the claim that they would allow a return to normal to begin, and get people back into shops. All they actually did was create a two-tier society, and lead to a fixation on them by a very vocal minority who regard anyone not wearing a mask as a walking bio-hazard.

There’s a good number also “fixated” about not wearing them (including some on this forum).

 

[Domh245]

Both as bad each other then?

It's inline with the RRP - at £2.50 for 4 (62.5p a roll) the 9 pack should RRP at £5.63

 

[takno]

I see more people not wearing masks than having parties.

Of course you think I’m a mask zealot which I’m not I just think a significant number of people are being awkward.

Examples are Merseyrail man in the summer and in the more public domain Laurence Fox.

Laurence Fox is just a not very talented man from a privileged background, slowly discovering that the world doesn't owe him a living, and having a very prolonged and very public meltdown over it. I'm sure you were taught as a child that it's rude to stare, and so it is here - leave him to die inside in peace.

He doesn't have any following as far as I can see apart from an odd band of mask zealots who enjoy being appalled by him. There isn't a band of people following him or itching to join his party. He isn't the top of an iceberg or the thin end of the wedge.

The people without masks in your shop are not wearing them because it's either unhealthy or actively distressing to them. If they make you uncomfortable then just try to give them a bit more space, and try not to let it spoil your day

 

[DB]

There’s a good number also “fixated” about not wearing them (including some on this forum).

Nowhere near as many, and they have no impact on mask wearers - I am not aware of anyone on here who is advocating a ban on mask wearing, and that would be the equivalent to the Maskivists. If people want to voluntarily wear masks that would be up to them.

To be equivalent, there would need to be shops with signs saying 'masks not allowed' or similar, and people on shop doors challenging mask wearers and in some cases asking them why they are wearing a mask and whether they have a condition which puts them at particular risk. Can you imagine the backlash if that happened?

 

[Sprinter153]

I also saw this on Twitter.
I think it’s quite sad, and I would argue that the primary purpose of these signs appearing is for them to be photographed and spread on social media for the purpose of validation and virtue signalling (look at me, aren’t I caring). It’s not an entirely new phenomenon, look at that tedious, supposedly funny Freddie Mercury example from the early days of the pandemic.

Attached image shows a mirror, which bears a picture of a mask and the legend ‘to accommodate ANTI-MASKERS we have provided this space away from everyone else where you can stare at your reflection since apparently you’re the only person you care about’.

 

[Dave91131]

It's ridiculous how fixated some people have become on masks despite the lack of evidence that they make any difference. If there's no evidence that they are reducing infection rates (which there isn't) what does it matter whether or not people wear them?

They were introduced in shops when cases were (due to the time of year) at a low ebb, with the claim that they would allow a return to normal to begin, and get people back into shops. All they actually did was create a two-tier society, and lead to a fixation on them by a very vocal minority who regard anyone not wearing a mask as a walking bio-hazard.

I noted that, during the press conference at 5pm on Friday evening, both Whitty and Valance made numerous references to the importance of continuing to keep doing the basics to try and stop the spread of the virus.

Specific mention of hand hygiene and social distancing was made more than once. No specific mention whatsoever was made of masks or face coverings.

Telling.

 

[VauxhallandI]

We should stop cleaning hospitals?

Everyone has heard about doctors and nurses catching Covid-19 but some of the worst affected hospital staff have been cleaners and porters. Dr John Wright of Bradford Royal Infirmary tells the story of a cleaner who became ill, and is now stricken with guilt for taking the virus home.
The first person I see early each morning when I arrive at the hospital is our cleaner, Karen Smith. During 10 months of uncertainty, Karen has been the one constant, apart from a few weeks in spring, when she was ill with Covid-19.

Coronavirus doctor's diary: Karen caught Covid - and took it home

Everyone has heard about doctors and nurses catching Covid-19 but cleaners and porters have been worse hit.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[island]

This is where the government should step-in and say something at one of those press conferences. Either Whitty or Valance (or even better Hancock or Jonson) should come out and actually state that some people for various reasons are exempt and that they should not face abuse or intimidating signs as a result of that.

Signs such as this have been against the law since (I believe) last September, but like the rest of the Covid regulations, enforcement is... sparse.

 

[Cdd89]

There’s a good number also “fixated” about not wearing them (including some on this forum).

I agree, however I don’t think it’d worth my mental energy worrying about it:

• In my experience 19 out of 20 people wear masks.
• Let’s assume masks have a 50% beneficial impact on Covid spread. (A number out of the air because there aren’t any scientific numbers).
• Of the 1 in 20 not wearing one, let’s assume 80% have a valid reason for not doing so, and 20% are laughing at the end of every day at having cheated society. (I suspect that number is generous). In other words we could decrease noncompliance from 1 in 20 to 0.8 in 20 with a magic scanner that looks into people’s souls and determines if they have an exemption or not.
• At the peak in London 1 in 30 had Covid.
• Let’s assume the natural chance of catching Covid from a positive case by being in close proximity for 30 minutes is 25%.

Your chance of getting Covid by sitting next to someone with the current scenario in the London peak:

Risk from mask wearers
0.95 * (0.5 * 0.033 * 0.25) = 0.00391

Plus risk from non mask wearers
0.05 * (0.033 * 0.25) = 0.00041

Combined risk = 0.00432

Now re-run with the soul-scanning exemption faker detector switched on:

Risk from mask wearers
0.96 * (0.5 * 0.033 * 0.25) = 0.00396

Plus risk from non mask wearers
0.04 * (0.033 * 0.25) = 0.00033

Combined risk = 0.00429

As you can see, the impact of rooting out the mask exemption fakers would be almost nothing once rolled into the total risk (which is all with made up numbers above, but changing the numbers wouldn’t have much impact on the point that the impact wouldbe tiny).

But consider the immense human suffering caused by pressuring and vilifying the truly exempt in search of that goal. Consider people who are trapped in their homes because they know they will be bullied by security, the public and the police for their disability.

Hopefully it’s clear why I am far more concerned about those pushing for ever harder enforcement, than I am about those who may be cheating the system. Even though I agree both are bad, the former is the battle that needs to be fought, and the one I hope you’ll get on board wirh.

 

[bramling]

OK so we have some that have genuine reasons for people not wearing face coverings.

Is there an acceptance then that some are just bloody minded about not wearing them?

Depends on your definition of genuine. I am genuinely concerned, especially working in an environment that’s hardly sterile, that they may risk more harm than good, by introducing a route which transmit bacteria to the face. There are also issues surrounding conflict management, where lack of ability to convey facial expressions can place people at greater risk of being involved in a conflict (and note how supermarket staff are apparently now taking considerable levels of abuse). I also object to the way the policy has resulted in people who absolutely cannot wear them being essentially oppressed by a foaming-at-the-mouth mob.

Personally I regard these as very genuine reasons. Were it simply a case of there being no potential negatives to wearing one even though the evidence of usefulness is weak, then I’d be prepared to give it a shot. I’d still be wary especially with the weak evidence of effectiveness, but it would probably tip the scales slightly the other way.

The more disgusting attitude I from some of the hard-core mask obsessive hystericals, the more it makes me determined not to wear them.

I noted that, during the press conference at 5pm on Friday evening, both Whitty and Valance made numerous references to the importance of continuing to keep doing the basics to try and stop the spread of the virus.

Specific mention of hand hygiene and social distancing was made more than once. No specific mention whatsoever was made of masks or face coverings.

Telling.

Always remember that masks came in at the point where the government was making a half-arsed push to try and get people both back to work and back spending money in the wider economy. That was after having spend four months properly scaring the population, such that some people were terrified to even step outside their house, let alone travel on a train.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Signs such as this have been against the law since (I believe) last September, but like the rest of the Covid regulations, enforcement is... sparse.

Yep the new signage Tesco we’re supposed to put out was dated 1/10/20

 

[gaillark]

It might be if it was just one country, although even then if masks were making a notable difference it would likely be visible in the trajectory of the graph. However, it's simply not credible that this applies to every country which had a mask mandate. Look at a graph of infections for any country, and identify whether and when mask mandates were made - you won't be able to as the timing of them bears no relationship to what the graph actually does. It's therefore really not credible to claim that there is proof that they work.

The government propaganda has succeeded with this though - among the general population, there is a strong belief that it has been proved beyond all doubt that masks cause a significant reduction in transmission.



I'm exempt, and I absolutely hate having to wear that bloody lanyard in order to avoid some of the hassle I would get otherwise. It doesn't stop the filthy looks, but if someone glares at me I always glare back at them now.

Up until this week, Tesco was notable for its reasonable approach. Sadly, that is no more and it seems I can expect to be harassed in there too. Went yesterday evening, and they had a door guardian (not normal up until now). I was wearing the lanyard and walked past him (he was busy hassling someone else at the time). He abandoned the person he was hassling and literally ran after me shouting 'Sir, sir, have you got a mask'. I turned round and glared at him and said 'I am exempt'. His response was 'Can you show me some proof'. To which I pointed at the clearly-visible lanyard and said 'I am wearing a lanyard - can't you see it'? He backed off then and went off to annoy someone else.

And every few minutes there were patronsing announcements about masks. I am getting really, really sick of those smug phrases about "let's keep everyone safe" and its many variants which is used alongside everything to do with the Deadly Killer Virus. It's just so one-sided: what about people at risk of suicide or self-harm because of the restrictions - are they 'safe'? What about cancer patients who don't get treatement in time? Or people trapped in abusive relationships? Seemingly none of them matter and 'safe' has been redefined as measures which allegedly reduce the chances of catching a virus which poses a low risk to most of the population.

Totally agree with you DavidB.
Had similar experience. Hate wearing the "Star" but it does help.

The BBC are totally responsible for the mass hysteria, state propaganda - even the soviets couldn't manage what the BBC is achieving. And the carefully selected people they put up for interview all scream for more and more restrictions. Not once have I heard a decent speaker argue for loosening restrictions with balance.
BBC as a public service broadcaster has completely failed in its coverage of any balance - free fair and impartial ... my foot.
With this constant brainwashing of British people small wonder why we have this hysteria. Tesco door staff at my local done a good job and were safe and suddenly the door staff overnight have double masks and a visor and atleast two staff members on the door. What has changed???? BBC brainwashing hysteria. Whilst Covid is real lets all be sensible and not go over the top.

 

[bramling]

That's because they'll be having their parties behind closed doors.

It's ridiculous how fixated some people have become on masks despite the lack of evidence that they make any difference. If there's no evidence that they are reducing infection rates (which there isn't) what does it matter whether or not people wear them?

They were introduced in shops when cases were (due to the time of year) at a low ebb, with the claim that they would allow a return to normal to begin, and get people back into shops. All they actually did was create a two-tier society, and lead to a fixation on them by a very vocal minority who regard anyone not wearing a mask as a walking bio-hazard.

It’s simply an extension of some of the behaviours we have seen right through this, where some people seem to think that this is a virus brought to their holier-than-thou selves by dirty outsiders.

“Don’t walk down our footpath or sit on our benches, there’s a vulnerable person living here”, which is a bit like we get on the railway when there’s some kind of delay, and there’ll be some loud-mouth who will start about how terrible it is, and sex this up with stuff like “there’s a pregnant woman on here”, when in reality the pregnant woman is perfectly content and is simply being used as a pawn in an argument.

It seems some people struggle to rationally deal with a situation over which they don’t have control (nature), and there’s no mechanism to cast blame (there’s little that can be done as regards China even if it did turn out they were culpable in some way). These sorts of situations lead to irrational behaviour; fighting over toilet rolls is another example of an irrational response.

 

[Bikeman78]

That's because they'll be having their parties behind closed doors.

It's ridiculous how fixated some people have become on masks despite the lack of evidence that they make any difference. If there's no evidence that they are reducing infection rates (which there isn't) what does it matter whether or not people wear them?

They were introduced in shops when cases were (due to the time of year) at a low ebb, with the claim that they would allow a return to normal to begin, and get people back into shops. All they actually did was create a two-tier society, and lead to a fixation on them by a very vocal minority who regard anyone not wearing a mask as a walking bio-hazard.

I'd forgotten how late Wales mandated masks in shops. The link below is dated September 11th with the requirement coming into force on the 14th. The infection rate has more or less climbed ever since.

Coronavirus: Face masks in shops to be mandatory in Wales

People are warned they face "more draconian measures" if they do not follow the new rules.

www.bbc.co.uk

People in Wales must wear face masks in shops and other indoor public spaces from Monday as coronavirus cases rise.
First Minister Mark Drakeford said the change was because 20 people in every 100,000 in Wales now had Covid-19, as the UK infection R number rose to 1.2.

 

[johnnychips]

This is great getting the vocal people to blame the very small minority who do not wear masks - either deliberately or because of exemption - for the spread of the virus. It deflects blame from the government’s incompetence in handling the crisis.

 

[Darandio]

This is great getting the vocal people to blame the very small minority who do not wear masks - either deliberately or because of exemption - for the spread of the virus. It deflects blame from the government’s incompetence in handling the crisis.

Working a treat isn't it.

 

[VauxhallandI]

This is great getting the vocal people to blame the very small minority who do not wear masks - either deliberately or because of exemption - for the spread of the virus. It deflects blame from the government’s incompetence in handling the crisis.

Yep whilst ignoring things like this:

The number of reported incidents of children dying or being seriously harmed after suspected abuse or neglect rose by a quarter after England's first lockdown last year, figures indicate.

Covid-19: Rise in suspected child abuse cases after lockdown

The number of incidents reported to the child safeguarding panel in England rose by a quarter.

www.bbc.co.uk

The twitter abusers and door guards should pat each other in the back

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The point about masks is that the is a consensus amongst scientists that they may well be helpful.

Waiting for in depth studies really isn't practical at the moment

Therefore, how about going along with it for the (hopefully) short time scale especially when infection rates are very high?

Better than throwing toys out the pram because you just don't like it.

For clarification - I hate masks.

Sorry, I thought the forum software had developed a glitch, such that a post from July 2020 had only just appeared.
We have had more than seven months since masks were mandatory on public transport, six months since required in shops. Yet still no sign of the ‘growing evidence’ of masks being effective being produced.
You call 10 months of your life under these restrictions and 6 months of masks a short timescale? The elderly we are trying to protect are even getting tired of this now! 10 months of being forcibly housebound, no contact or joy with your grandchildren could be a significant chunk of whatever time you have left. A soulless, nomadic existence is not ‘life’ !!!

 

[Yew]

We've been bombared with news stories since last spring saying that masks are the solution. We have articles like this covering papers which say that if 80% of americans wore masks covid cases would dwindle. Well now more than 80% of americans wear masks and cases definitely haven't dwindled. Suddenly it's "masks are not the only solution, it's more complicated". Yes we know, that's why we've been saying the mandation of them is pointless.

I completely agree on you can't draw firm conclusions from the graphs but would you not expect some sort of visible step change in transmission? Even in at least a couple of countries around the globe. Does it not cast any doubt on the effectiveness of them?

You forget that it's not about scientific journals, it's about inaccurate memes on the internet.

 

[DB]

You forget that it's not about scientific journals, it's about inaccurate memes on the internet.

And about academics and research groups trying to make a name for themselves and/or bring in funding by producing "studies" which confirm what governments want to hear - that masks are effective - by cherry-picking some earlier studies from medical settings and doing a "meta-analysis" to confirm that masks are effective in public - carefully ignoring or glossing over all the reasons why medical settings and general public spaces are in no way comparable.

Strangely, we don't seem to have heard anything more from these people since the mask mandate. Perhaps someone should invite them to share their views on why no country in the world saw any reduction in cases as a result of a mask mandate?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

This is great getting the vocal people to blame the very small minority who do not wear masks - either deliberately or because of exemption - for the spread of the virus. It deflects blame from the government’s incompetence in handling the crisis.

I am exempt but my employer made masks mandatory in the workplace on 4th November, subject to exemptions.
After a brief chat with my line manager (who knows my medical reason), I’ve been wearing a lanyard even though it’s not compulsory.
This week, however, a manager from a different shift wanted an ‘informal chat’ with each exempt person, ‘just to clarify why you’re not able to wear one, or even a visor’. He claimed the law had changed to cover distribution centres (it has, but not recently) but I politely told him that in respect of exemptions, the law was unchanged.
It turns out the real reason behind these chats was some colleagues are hinting they don’t feel safe at work.
The manager even tried the emotional blackmail angle, saying that if I could wear something, even if it’s only a visor, it might help others ‘feel protected’. As soon as I said that there was no evidence that masks work, he waved his hand across his face dismissively and said ‘I’m not interested in conspiracy theories’!
I was astonished.
I pointed out that at least one person with strong views on masks is regularly to found doing overtime, including on New Years Day, for enhanced pay and a day in lieu. Surely, if he felt that unsafe, wouldn’t he restrict his days at work to his contractual hours only?
I also pointed out that at least two individuals who are in the Critically Extremely Vulnerable group, who stayed at home throughout the first lockdown, have declined to stay home in this current lockdown. One of whom is... my line manager!!!
I am fast losing respect for those that have swallowed this fear agenda without any use of their brain.