Sussex RUS draft out for consultation

[Chris125]

South East Route: Sussex Area Route Study Draft for Consultation

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/long-t...ssex-area-route-study-draft-for-consultation/

I think this is probably worth it's own thread, there's no shortage of talking points. Perhaps of the widest interest is the following summary:

Operational planning work for the study suggests if implemented
the interventions detailed below would deliver an additional 6 trains
per hour in the peak over and above the end of CP5 base. If
achieved, this would meet the end of CP6 and end of 2043 Demand
forecasts:

• Windmill Bridge Jn (north of East Croydon where the lines to
London Victoria and London Bridge diverge) : Grade separation
of two key remaining flat junctions on fast and slow lines
• East Croydon: Additional platforms and 6th track to Windmill
Bridge Jn
• London Victoria Station – alterations to signalling on approaches
and minor track alterations
• Clapham Junction remodelling of fast line platforms – or
implementation of ETCS and Automatic Train operation (ATO)
for inner area (see section below on Digital Railway)
• Grade separation at Stoats Nest Jn near Coulsdon for services
crossing from the Redhill lines to the fast lines in the northbound
direction
• Track layout alterations north of Gatwick Airport
• Track layout alterations at Haywards Heath
• Improvements to the signalling headways to enable more trains
to operate south of Haywards Heath

In addition to these ‘core’ schemes, a number of further schemes
are identified that would bring additional benefits

• Grade separation of Keymer Jn (South of Wivelsfield where the
lines to Brighton and Lewes diverge) to allow additional services
to operate all the way from Hove (and beyond) and Lewes (and
beyond) to London as opposed to just from Haywards Heath and
Gatwick Airport inwards)
• Lengthening of the platforms at Reigate to 12-car lengths
• Changes to the track layout immediately south of the station at
Redhill to allow some of the proposed additional services to serve
the Redhill route.

Chris

 

[21C101]

South East Route: Sussex Area Route Study Draft for Consultation

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/long-t...ssex-area-route-study-draft-for-consultation/

I think this is probably worth it's own thread, there's no shortage of talking points. Perhaps of the widest interest is the following summary:



Chris

Rather than grade separation at stoats nest, a spur from the slow to the fast at Star lane where the fast crosses the slow would be less messy.

The SR bought the land for a Keymer flyover but I think its now been sold.

One thing I never understood is the closure of the Earlswood fast line platforms. During the Brighton resignalling, when Redhill line was closed quarry line trains made a stop at Earlswood to serve Redhill. Now all they have is a bus.

 

[thelem]

For some reason it won't download for me. It gets to 2kB then just hangs.

 

[neilm]

Rather than grade separation at stoats nest, a spur from the slow to the fast at Star lane where the fast crosses the slow would be less messy.

The SR bought the land for a Keymer flyover but I think its now been sold.

One thing I never understood is the closure of the Earlswood fast line platforms. During the Brighton resignalling, when Redhill line was closed quarry line trains made a stop at Earlswood to serve Redhill. Now all they have is a bus.

What you say appears to be 'similar' to what they propose, stoats nest stays and there is another flyover built.

The ideas for wivesfield are very interesting....

 

[RichardN]

What you say appears to be 'similar' to what they propose, stoats nest stays and there is another flyover built.

The ideas for wivesfield are very interesting....

Similar, except for the difference in cost between building a bridge and cutting a shelf into the side of a cutting. There could be reasons why the shelf can't be done.

 

[talldave]

For some reason it won't download for me. It gets to 2kB then just hangs.

I had the same problem with IE, so used Firefox instead and it worked instantly.

 

[telstarbox]

The "A Study in Sussex" series on London Reconnections may be of interest to readers in connection with the above.

 

[physics34]

Grade separation is a new phrase to be me, but ive clued myself up on it.

The expense and lack of space for grade separation junctions must be an issue. Id imagine one of the best places to put one would be at South Croydon junction for the East Grinstead/Uckfield Line as this would reduce the need for slow line to fast line movements at Cottage Bridge Jct and Selhurst Junction for london bound services.

 

[WatcherZero]

I had the same problem with IE, so used Firefox instead and it worked instantly.

For me was initially only downloading meta data (file size) but download started working next day.

 

[Fincra5]

A fly over at Stoats nest is a good idea... maybe something like a fly under at Keymer, with a low level platform..

Would have to be a steep decent though.

 

[swt_passenger]

Minor point, but I'm puzzled by why they are referring to the 'South East Route - Sussex area'.

I thought the three Network Rail 'routes' in the south were still known as Kent, Sussex, and Wessex. Is there another change about to happen?

 

[WatcherZero]

Doesnt ORR break them up into Regional, Intercity, London South Eastern? could be a typo but the link is called Sussex Area rather than Sussex Route.

For me was initially only downloading meta data (file size) but download started working next day.

Just been back to page and the link and other file links are broken again saying 'incorrect credentials' with both IE and Chrome, seems to be a Network Rail website problem.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Minor point, but I'm puzzled by why they are referring to the 'South East Route - Sussex area'.

I thought the three Network Rail 'routes' in the south were still known as Kent, Sussex, and Wessex. Is there another change about to happen?

Because that is what it is, Kent and Sussex are now one route.
There has already been some amalgamation of HQ staff.

 

[Bald Rick]

Because that is what it is, Kent and Sussex are now one route.
There has already been some amalgamation of HQ staff.

Some? Complete!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Minor point, but I'm puzzled by why they are referring to the 'South East Route - Sussex area'.

I thought the three Network Rail 'routes' in the south were still known as Kent, Sussex, and Wessex. Is there another change about to happen?

Kent and Sussex merged back in April. Now South East Route, with separate areas for Kent, Sussex, and HS1 (although the latter not technically an area).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Grade separation is a new phrase to be me, but ive clued myself up on it.

The expense and lack of space for grade separation junctions must be an issue. Id imagine one of the best places to put one would be at South Croydon junction for the East Grinstead/Uckfield Line as this would reduce the need for slow line to fast line movements at Cottage Bridge Jct and Selhurst Junction for london bound services.

Not enough space on the fast lines through E Croydon for that, as all the fast trains from London Bridge are there too. The trains ex Oxted have to go through the slow platforms.

 

[yorksrob]

Six extra trains per hour for some reasonably modest improvements. Quite impressive really !

 

[JonathanH]

Some? Complete!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Kent and Sussex merged back in April. Now South East Route, with separate areas for Kent, Sussex, and HS1 (although the latter not technically an area).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Not enough space on the fast lines through E Croydon for that, as all the fast trains from London Bridge are there too. The trains ex Oxted have to go through the slow platforms.

It doesn't have to be grade separation to the fast lines - just from the Oxted line to the up slow through South Croydon to avoid conflicts between up trains from Oxted and down trains to Purley.

 

[Bald Rick]

It doesn't have to be grade separation to the fast lines - just from the Oxted line to the up slow through South Croydon to avoid conflicts between up trains from Oxted and down trains to Purley.

That's not really a capacity problem though. Unlike the very real problems the strategy does set out to solve.

 

[cle]

Curious to hear about the extra 6tph - are they fast? Are they beyond Three Bridges? Might they go to Thameslink, or Victoria? Or the WLL?

If there are an extra 6tph, and 4tph of those go via Gatwick, do we really need Gatwick Express with that level of frequency (12tph+) ?

Good news for Reigate. Small thing, but a handy turning point and at 12 car, might allow certain extra inner trains and then allow others (i.e. those stopping at Earlswood etc) to be a bit faster further north.

Shame there is nothing to facilitate Southern fasts to join the WLL segregated. Or seemingly, much for the via Cheam/Mole Valley route.

 

[Olaf]

It was interesting to note the suggestions around the use of ATO.

 

[infobleep]

I've not read the document yet but is there a real need for a grade separated Junction at Keymer? Would it allow trains to Hove during the morning peak? Currently no train runs to Hove before 8.30. Trains from Haywards Heath heading north are busy, especially from Littlehampton way but not to a pint where I'd have thought they pay for a grade separated Junction to be installed.

I thought trains had to get much busier than this before they would do such a thing. Of course this is only a consultation document so it may not happen.

 

[neilm]

I've not read the document yet but is there a real need for a grade separated Junction at Keymer? Would it allow trains to Hove during the morning peak? Currently no train runs to Hove before 8.30. Trains from Haywards Heath heading north are busy, especially from Littlehampton way but not to a pint where I'd have thought they pay for a grade separated Junction to be installed.

I thought trains had to get much busier than this before they would do such a thing. Of course this is only a consultation document so it may not happen.

No I think not, as trains to Hove block the junction at Preston Park I guess this would need to be grade seperated to allow what you want.

 

[infobleep]

No I think not, as trains to Hove block the junction at Preston Park I guess this would need to be grade seperated to allow what you want.

So I take it they don't block the junction in the evening due to the trains running north the same side as the junction itself.

However they do run trains south from London to Littlehampton in the evening and that surely blocks the junction.

 

[neilm]

I think yes to the first bit, to the second remember there are less trains in the evening leaving Brighton.

In the morning you have gatwick express and fcc trains leaving.

 

[infobleep]

That's why less trains leave Brighton in the evening compared to those arriving in the morning. At least I think that's the case.

 

[Hophead]

My understanding of the report is that grade-separation at Keymer Junction is not recommended as a CP6 output, but could follow before 2043.

Other enhancements (principally at Windmill Bridge) can deliver additional paths north of Haywards Heath up to 2023.