sussexspotter's opinions on XC service to Bath, and freight loco liveries

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SussexSpotter

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Is there a particuar reason why this 1 way Cross Country service runs on weekdays Mon - Fri from Bath Spa to Glasgow, or is it just an Orcats raid? Bath Spa isn't even listed on the Cross Country map which is rather bizzare.

http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/SiteImages/Assets/3/CrossCountry_Route_Map.pdf

Also who is likely to use this one way service???? Very odd!

1S35 0609 Bath Spa to 1412 Glasgow Central
 
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Ivo

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I think it's a combination of positioning (not sure how that works though), route learning and a convenient little ORCATS raid.

I have never seen this service, but I would not be against travelling on it if ever had to travel from here at 0600. It would be useful for anyone from Bath that has to be in Birmingham for roughly 0800.

As for the map, to my knowledge it hasn't been updated since the Brighton route was abolished, which would explain its omission.
 

TEW

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That's not it's purpose, it's purely an ORCATS raid. It was only introduced a couple of years ago.
 

SussexSpotter

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I think it's a combination of positioning (not sure how that works though), route learning and a convenient little ORCATS raid.

I have never seen this service, but I would not be against travelling on it if ever had to travel from here at 0600. It would be useful for anyone from Bath that has to be in Birmingham for roughly 0800.
But what I find most unusual is how Cross Country havn't even listed Bath Spa on their Network Map, even though they run 1 service per day. They list Guildford on the map and that gets 1 morning service and a return evening service.
 

Eagle

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But what I find most unusual is how Cross Country havn't even listed Bath Spa on their Network Map, even though they run 1 service per day. They list Guildford on the map and that gets 1 morning service and a return evening service.
They don't list Eastleigh and that gets one service a day. (And no return service, before you ask.)
 

Ivo

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But what I find most unusual is how Cross Country havn't even listed Bath Spa on their Network Map, even though they run 1 service per day. They list Guildford on the map and that gets 1 morning service and a return evening service.
See the last bit of my previous post. That map has seemingly not been altered since the far more prominent alteration of removing Brighton was made - and that was before the BTH service began.

They don't list Eastleigh and that gets one service a day. (And no return service, before you ask.)
My point exactly. Eastleigh is an even more recent addition.
 

SussexSpotter

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They don't list Eastleigh and that gets one service a day. (And no return service, before you ask.)
Seems a bit strange, even if they only run a 1 way service they should still list those stations on their Network Map....or is it the case that to legally list it on the Network Map they have to opperate a train in both directions? Just curious. :|
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
See the last bit of my previous post. That map has seemingly not been altered since the far more prominent alteration of removing Brighton was made - and that was before the BTH service began.



My point exactly. Eastleigh is an even more recent addition.
Might be that they just havn't got round to doing it then.
 

Eagle

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Seems a bit strange, even if they only run a 1 way service they should still list those stations on their Network Map....or is it the case that to legally list it on the Network Map they have to opperate a train in both directions? Just curious. :|
They can put whatever the hell they like on the map. Notice the complete lack of stations between Derby and Nottingham, despite the fact that XC calls at all of them at least a few times a day (in fact Beeston is served hourly). Audley End, Hinckley, Willington, Wilnecote and Bromsgrove are all missing despite being regular calls.
 

SussexSpotter

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They can put whatever the hell they like on the map. Notice the complete lack of stations between Derby and Nottingham, despite the fact that XC cals at all of them at least a few times a day (in fact Beeston is served hourly).
Talk about how to cause confusion, any potential passenger looking at that map will think that Cross Country don't serve it so will look at travelling with another TOC instead. All the TOC railway network maps I have come across have highlighted all the stations they serve except XC, Southern even highlight which stations they infrequently serve e.g. Faygate and Cooksbridge.
 

Eagle

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Talk about how to cause confusion, any potential passenger looking at that map will think that Cross Country don't serve it so will look at travelling with another TOC instead. All the TOC railway network maps I have come across have highlighted all the stations they serve except XC, Southern even highlight which stations they infrequently serve e.g. Faygate and Cooksbridge.
The XC map is and has always been bollocks, that's a constant.

The old Virgin ones were much clearer.
 

SussexSpotter

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The XC map is and has always been bollocks, that's a constant.

The old Virgin ones were much clearer.
Sounds like poor management to me, bit like DB Schenker then still carrying the EWS livery on a majority of their loco's. A huge multi billion pound company like that who has had over 3 years to remove the defunct EWS logo and they've still only repainted a few of their fleet red. They can't even be bothered to blank out the EWS logo and put over a temporary DB logo :roll:
 

Ivo

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By the way, I was working on an improved XC map the other day (whilst bored); this is how far I got.
What program did you make that in? I've got to say, that's a damn sight better than the real one. But what of XC's "well-known" measures for avoiding changing at BHM, i.e. highlighting CNM/LMS/DBY/WVH? :p
 

Eagle

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What program did you make that in? I've got to say, that's a damn sight better than the real one. But what of XC's "well-known" measures for avoiding changing at BHM, i.e. highlighting CNM/LMS/DBY/WVH? :p
Inkscape (although you could create the same effect in any vector graphics program, such as CorelDraw or Illustrator).

And as for the highlighting: I did say it was unfinished, it's still in the layout phase.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Sounds like poor management to me, bit like DB Schenker then still carrying the EWS livery on a majority of their loco's. A huge multi billion pound company like that who has had over 3 years to remove the defunct EWS logo and they've still only repainted a few of their fleet red. They can't even be bothered to blank out the EWS logo and put over a temporary DB logo :roll:
I believe DBS do that to ensure that all locos are available and none are out of action for unnecessary rebranding. Quite sensible, a lot of TOCs / FOCs are too focussed on image rather than actual service IMO. I'm sure it's much better to have one back up in old livery than no back ups but a failed 66 in a nice shiny red coat. I'm sure trains will be rebranded in time, but I'm sure all parties concerned are more interested in freight / tours running well.
 

SussexSpotter

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I believe DBS do that to ensure that all locos are available and none are out of action for unnecessary rebranding. Quite sensible, a lot of TOCs / FOCs are too focussed on image rather than actual service IMO. I'm sure it's much better to have one back up in old livery than no back ups but a failed 66 in a nice shiny red coat. I'm sure trains will be rebranded in time, but I'm sure all parties concerned are more interested in freight / tours running well.
GBRf seem to cracking on with the rebranding/repainting though, they even repainted one of the Metronet 66's into that rainbow livery. What I find so ridiculous is how DBS wasted money repainting those Class 37's.
 

KA4C

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I believe DBS do that to ensure that all locos are available and none are out of action for unnecessary rebranding. Quite sensible, a lot of TOCs / FOCs are too focussed on image rather than actual service IMO. I'm sure it's much better to have one back up in old livery than no back ups but a failed 66 in a nice shiny red coat. I'm sure trains will be rebranded in time, but I'm sure all parties concerned are more interested in freight / tours running well.
Exactly and EWS does still exist, in name, as part of DBS. DBS carryout DBS re-branding where it will be done at no extra cost

Staff still get issued with EWS branded PPE until stocks are used up
 

Schnellzug

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I believe DBS do that to ensure that all locos are available and none are out of action for unnecessary rebranding. Quite sensible, a lot of TOCs / FOCs are too focussed on image rather than actual service IMO. I'm sure it's much better to have one back up in old livery than no back ups but a failed 66 in a nice shiny red coat. I'm sure trains will be rebranded in time, but I'm sure all parties concerned are more interested in freight / tours running well.
I could believe that they were concerned for maximum utilisation of resources if they didn't keep shuffling locos in and out of store every week, in fact I saw the other day that there are some 67s that haven't actually moved for nearly two years. And the 60s in shiny red coats seem to be not immune to breaking down fairly regularly..
 

swt_passenger

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Sounds like poor management to me, bit like DB Schenker then still carrying the EWS livery on a majority of their loco's. A huge multi billion pound company like that who has had over 3 years to remove the defunct EWS logo and they've still only repainted a few of their fleet red. They can't even be bothered to blank out the EWS logo and put over a temporary DB logo :roll:
No that's just sound economics. They are freight locos, and they get painted only when they need painting in normal course.
 

SussexSpotter

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Exactly and EWS does still exist, in name, as part of DBS. DBS carryout DBS re-branding where it will be done at no extra cost

Staff still get issued with EWS branded PPE until stocks are used up
I would have to disagree with this statement. EWS does not exist, it's a defunct company, merged/renamed into DB Schenker back in January 2009. The name EWS is now over 3 years old so therefore still carrying the name seems like pure lazyness by DB Schenker really to rebrand quickly. The pace in which they are doing the rebranding is a bit ridiculous considering they have had over 3 years to do it, plenty of time over the Christmas periods, or indeed take 1 loco out per week. There are loco's in storage, 66's which could be brought back into service whilst some of their fleet are being repainted.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No that's just sound economics. They are freight locos, and they get painted only when they need painting in normal course.
Again I will have to disagree with this statement, if you look at how well Europorte are rebranding their GBRf loco fleet, there really is no excuse by DB Schenker when they have owned EWS a lot longer than Europorte have owned GBRf, and DB Schenker own a larger fleet. If GBRf can rebrand and repaint a smaller fleet and allow for a reduced number of loco's available whilst it's being done, why can't DB Schenker?
 
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Eagle

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There's no point repainting locos before they come up for full maintenance; it's not exactly as if it makes a material difference to anyone what colour they are (unlike with passenger units where you could argue that a swift reliverying following a franchise change, such as the very fast one XC pulled off, avoids confusion and establishes a brand).
 

curly42

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The fact that a very senior member of the AXC management team travels from Bath to Birmingham,daily,seems to have escaped mention.
 

SussexSpotter

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There's no point repainting locos before they come up for full maintenance; it's not exactly as if it makes a material difference to anyone what colour they are (unlike with passenger units where you could argue that a swift reliverying following a franchise change, such as the very fast one XC pulled off, avoids confusion and establishes a brand).
Perhaps rebranding freight loco's is not essential, but not doing so comes across as not being proffesional to me, and bad managment, like that Cross Country map only displaying some stations that it serves. It's like they don't really care and think ''oh well, we'll do it later, got more important things to do. Rather make more money and profit than show that my business looks attractive to customers and give them the best possible impression''. NO that's not how it should work!!!! If I were looking to hire a rail freight opperator to move my goods/freight from one terminal to another, when I see that the company I am looking to employ is still carrying the previous opperators logo (EWS) to me it would look like lazyness and unproffessional. In business it's all about image, the non-essential things can sometimes make all the difference to a customer. If Co-op still carried the Somerfield logo on a majority of it's stores across the UK years after the takeover, what would your impression be as a potential shopper????
 
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455driver

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If I was looking to hire a FOC to move some freight for me the first thing I would look at would be price!
The second would be reputation.

As for what colour the loco is, I couldnt give 2 shakes of a donkies whatsit as long as the train gets there on time and on budget.
 
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