Swanage gains 4TC set for proposed 2010 Wareham shuttles

[trains2]

Taken from The Railway Herald:

A provisional agreement has been reached between the Swanage Railway Trust (SRT) and the 4TC Group, owners of ex-British Rail Mk1 fourcar Trailer Composite set No. 413, for the unit to be based at the Swanage Railway from 2010. One of the goals of the SRT, the controlling body of the Swanage Railway, is to restore the rail link between Swanage and Wareham and to re-establish a daily service to connect with mainline trains. This will be achieved towards the end of the decade and the 4TC will be an integral part of the plans.

With motive power provided by Class 33/1 No. 33108, previously used by Fragonset but owned by the 33/1 Preservation Company, the set will produce an historically accurate train for the line, as well as providing a service to the local community. The 4TC units were used on the Swanage branch from their introduction in 1966 until the line closed in January 1972. They were regularly used on through services to and from Waterloo and the final locomotive-hauled passenger train on the Isle of Purbeck was two 4TCs and a Class 33/1. 4TC sets continued to be used on Waterloo-Weymouth trains until electrification in 1988, when replaced by Class 442 ‘Wessex Electrics’. The set owned by the 4TC Group No. 413 comprises DTSO No. 76298, TFK No. 70855, TBSK No. 70824 and DTSO No. 76322. The set is currently stored at Dinton.

 

[TheSlash]

Old news, by about 18 months

 

[Nathan]

Old news, by about 18 months

I never knew, its brilliant news though! No more expensive bus fares to pay from Poole or Wareham to Swanage anymore

 

[WessexWarrior]

This is excellent news! No news on the Swanage page as of yet though... and also, why didn't they just buy up the ready-preserved unit from SWT? And will this unit be restored at Swanage?

 

[960012]

More than likely, it wil be restored there,

One reason for not taking on the VEP is the fitting of CDL, 10 doors on either side of the coach, not fun!

 

[Nathan]

More than likely, it wil be restored there,

One reason for not taking on the VEP is the fitting of CDL, 10 doors on either side of the coach, not fun!

Or there will be old men hoping on as the train starts moving like at the beer fest, good thing the other 73 was in tow, could have accelerated a lot faster out the platform otherwise!

 

[Beaker]

Old news, by about 18 months

But the actual press release was made a couple of days ago

 

[paul1609]

If the same criterior applies to the swanage tc as was applied to the lymington cigs. Wont the swanage need to build a seperate line from Worgret Junction to wareham? Is there room for a seperate bay on the down side?
2010 sounds pretty ambitious to me.

 

[Tom]

It's more likely that it'd use the current running line - the TC would be Loco hauled so there is different criteria.

 

[TheSlash]

There is a massive difference between hauling a TC and hauling a VEP, the main one being that hauling a VEP involves hauling lots of dead weight {most of the motorcoach for a start}

 

[Beaker]

Im sure the press release just said that the TC was coming in 2010.

 

[paul1609]

It's more likely that it'd use the current running line - the TC would be Loco hauled so there is different criteria.

presumably then propelling wouldnt be allowed? Are their loco run round facilites at Wareham?

 

[Tom]

Think they can run around at the top end of the station.

 

[87015]

Weren't the 117s supposed to be used for this or has that been abandoned?

 

[Tom]

The 117s are gone....

 

[TheSlash]

presumably then propelling wouldnt be allowed? Are their loco run round facilites at Wareham?

Propelling of passenger trains is illegal, however multiple working isn't :thefinge:

 

[Tom]

And multiple working is what happens in push pull.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Is any propelling (controlled from the loco) on the mainline allowed? In France, I've seen ECS trains propelled all the way from Le Landy carriage sidings to Gare de Nord (about 1 mile), yet for many years in the UK, station pilots or release locos have been used to take the stock to the sidings or on it's next run, often with much shorter distances (e.g Brighton to Lovers Walk when XC ran loco hauled there). The only propelling I've seen in the UK has been freight into sidings, over very short distances and low speeds. Also, I'm sure propelling of passengers trains is allowed in special circumstances though, e.g to allow wrong line working where trailing crossover are provided. Propelling on preserved lines does happen though, e.g on the GC at Ruddington trains are propelled from the Heritage Centre to Ruddington on the way out, and from Rushcliff Halt or even Loughborough on the return, using a 3 coach set with a basic cab at the north end (basically a wooden board with a window, lights and a horn, that fits over the corridor connection, and has a brake handle that connects onto the vacume pipe).
With the Wareham Shuttles though, the only reason I can think of them wanting to use a TC and a 33/1 is to run push pull (controlled from the leading driving trailer), as the TCs were originally built for. If they were going to haul and run around, they could use any Mk1s or Mk2s, and any loco.

 

[37402]

Is any propelling (controlled from the loco) on the mainline allowed? <snip>

Not any longer. It used to take place over short distances (such as from Crewe LNWR to Crewe station) but with the introduction of TPWS it has been eliminated.

 

[ChrisCooper]

I suppose the issue is that the TPWS is on the loco, so in the event of a SPAD, the 'front' of the train could be well past the signal, even beyond the overlap, before the brakes applied. Then again, the same will apply with the KVB used in France. I presume it's still allowed from the mainline into sidings, but what about the various emergencies where propelling definitly used to be allowed (things like moving a train trapped by an incident in front, wrong line moves via trailing crossovers etc)?

 

[paul1609]

Mk 1 mu were withdrawn because of their poor crash worthiness. Given the restrictions placed on the lymington stock would the Swanage railway be allowed to operate a 4tc in push pull mode over the main line to wareham?

 

[Tom]

I certainly see no problems - there isn't much of a chance for crashing down there with only 1tph at current - hopefully 2tph from December.

 

[960012]

going back to push pull working and about the risk of a spad and it not being registered because the TPWS is on the 33, surely they would have to put TPWS on both ends of the TC that way they can run it both ways with the 33 at either end.

 

[ChrisCooper]

going back to push pull working and about the risk of a spad and it not being registered because the TPWS is on the 33, surely they would have to put TPWS on both ends of the TC that way they can run it both ways with the 33 at either end.

That's the difference between propelling and proper push-pull. Propelling refers to when the loco is pushing the train, and the driver is in the loco, in this case the TPWS wouldn't activate until the loco passed the grids, by which time the front of the train could be well past. For push pull though, the loco is pushing the train but is controlled remotly from the front of train (e.g a DT, DVT, DBSO), and that will also have TPWS fitted. If the TC is used push pull and TPWS is needed, then one or both cabs of the TC will be fitted aswell as the loco.

 

[960012]

That's the difference between propelling and proper push-pull. Propelling refers to when the loco is pushing the train, and the driver is in the loco, in this case the TPWS wouldn't activate until the loco passed the grids, by which time the front of the train could be well past. For push pull though, the loco is pushing the train but is controlled remotly from the front of train (e.g a DT, DVT, DBSO), and that will also have TPWS fitted. If the TC is used push pull and TPWS is needed, then one or both cabs of the TC will be fitted aswell as the loco.

Yes, their not going to be allowed to propell up the mainline, espacally with MK1s

 

[TheSlash]

The sad thing you have to consider is what if the TC had hit that coach the other day?

 

[Tom]

Surely the TC would only go as far as Norden........

 

[TheSlash]

I meant as an example. I would think the TC would of been opened up like a tin can

 

[ChrisCooper]

I don't think so, the Mk1s are very strong in most circumstances. In a collision like that most of the impact would have been taken by the underframe, which has a lot of strength. The problem with the Mk1s is over-riding, where the body comes loose from the underframe and rides up onto an adjacent coach, crushing it's body. Of cource, if the risk is considered to great, anti-climb equipment could be installed, as found on all modern trains, and a lot of Mk1 style stock on the continent.

 

[Hentis]

33108's move from Norden to Barrow hill to have the dents removed went ahead today, the driver is stopping overnight at Rownhams (southampton area).

Cheers

Hentis