Swanage - Wareham diesel service delayed until Sept 2018

Bessie

Member
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
76
It was on the local BBC news today that the train due to run this service will not be ready until September as work to update to latest safety regs is behind schedule. Does someone in the know what's caused these delays? What is the planned train being used - I guess some kind of DMU? Surely SWR could have a quiet word with GWR and maybe get a cascaded 165 on loan for the summer. Seems a lost opportunity to miss out on the summer season.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
3,285
It was on the local BBC news today that the train due to run this service will not be ready until September as work to update to latest safety regs is behind schedule. Does someone in the know what's caused these delays? What is the planned train being used - I guess some kind of DMU? Surely SWR could have a quiet word with GWR and maybe get a cascaded 165 on loan for the summer. Seems a lost opportunity to miss out on the summer season.

Yes that is a shame.
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
3,294
Location
Gateway to the South West
Surely SWR could have a quiet word with GWR and maybe get a cascaded 165 on loan for the summer
It's nothing to do with SWR (and if it was, SWR could just as easily provide its own diesel stock). If last summer is anything to go by, there is alternative rolling stock available without trying to weedle stuff out of the mainline TOCs.
 

Bessie

Member
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
76
I can imagine that's the case. Does anyone what stock is being converted to run on this line. I assume it's some kind of heritage DMU which is having to have electric locking doors retro-fitted.
 

Ash Bridge

Established Member
Joined
17 Mar 2014
Messages
3,608
Location
Stockport Cheshire
I can imagine that's the case. Does anyone what stock is being converted to run on this line. I assume it's some kind of heritage DMU which is having to have electric locking doors retro-fitted.
I think it's the class 108 2 car DMU plus the railways class 121 single car DMU, although I do stand to be corrected here.
 

Cowley

Established Member
Associate Staff
General Discussion
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
8,325
Location
Devon
I think it's the class 108 2 car DMU plus the railways class 121 single car DMU, although I do stand to be corrected here.
Not that I’m circling to pounce during my tea break Mr Bridge, but I think it’s a 3 car 117 and a 121 from what I remember.
 

XDM

Member
Joined
9 Apr 2016
Messages
483
I am reliably informed, unfortunately due to hiring in stock and locos , last years 60 day trial service made a HUGE loss :(.
I think this is what an influential, but tiny, faction in the railway wanted - failure. They did not want main line running.
The 25 mph creep through Purbeck, when the 50 double decker bus overtook at twice the speed, the crude & expensive( thanks to NR) turn round system at Wareham adding to cost, & the lack of warm waiting rooms at Wareham & few platform seats were designed for failure. Only enthusiasts used the service more than once
And what a shame when so many Swanage railway people put so much energy & enthusiasm into it, & many pressed for 40 mph running.
 

Firesprite

Member
Joined
22 Dec 2011
Messages
295
Location
Fens
Swanage Railway Press Release

http://swanagerailway.co.uk/news/de...ains-delays-second-year-wareham-service-trial

A challenging project to restore and upgrade two former British Railways 1960s heritage diesel trains – to exacting main line standards – is to delay the second year of the Swanage Railway’s pioneering trial train service to Wareham.

While some special diesel and steam trains may run between Swanage and Wareham during late 2018, the full second year of the Swanage Railway’s trial train service to Wareham is now set to start during Easter, 2019.

It had been planned to run a 90 selected day trial train service to Wareham during 2018 using the Swanage Railway’s two 1960-built heritage diesel trains, known as diesel multiple units, directly operated by main line-qualified Swanage Railway drivers and guards.

The Swanage Railway’s Project Wareham director Mark Woolley said: “We are committed to operating the second year of our trial train service to Wareham using our two heritage diesel multiple units which have diesel engines under the floor so there is no need to use a diesel locomotive at each end of a set of carriages as we did with our trial service to Wareham during the summer of 2017.

“The extensive overhaul, refurbishment and upgrade to exacting main line standards of our two former British Railways diesel multiple units by several specialist contractors has been very challenging work because of the heritage nature of the trains,” added Mr Woolley who has been a dedicated Swanage Railway volunteer since the mid-1980s.

The two 1960 British Railways-built diesel trains – a one-carriage Class 121 ‘Bubble Car’ diesel multiple unit and a three-carriage Class 117 diesel multiple unit – are being overhauled, restored and upgraded by Arlington Fleet Group Ltd at the Eastleigh railway works in Hampshire.

The two diesel multiple units are being given new wheel-sets – supplied by separate contractors – as well as being equipped with Network Rail-compliant TPWS (train protection and warning system), OTMR (on-train monitoring recorder), GSM-R wireless communications system and central door locking so they can run on the main line into Wareham station.

The two trains are due to be delivered to the Swanage Railway during the early summer of 2018, after which the two diesel multiple units will be intensively tested. The Swanage Railway drivers and guards that will operate the two trains into Wareham will also complete their training on the new units.

For the first year of the Swanage Railway’s trial train service to Wareham, the Railway contracted main line train operator West Coast Railways to run the 60 selected day trial service on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays between 13 June and 3 September 2017. The drivers, guards, diesel locomotives and carriages needed to run the trains were supplied by West Coast Railways.

Mark Woolley explained: “Just over 13,000 passengers were carried during the first year of our trial train service to Wareham – during the summer of 2017 – which compares well with the target figure of 12,000 passengers in the Purbeck Community Rail Partnership business plan.”

The heritage 1967-built former British Rail Southern Region 4TC four-carriage set used for the first year of the trial Wareham service was hired from the London Transport Museum.

A diesel locomotive was needed on each end of the Swanage Railway’s trains to Wareham because there are no facilities at Wareham station for a locomotive to run round its carriages before returning its train to Swanage.

One of the Swanage Railway’s main line certificated heritage diesel locomotives – ex-British Rail Southern Regional Class 33 diesel-electric locomotive No. D6515 ‘Lt Jenny Lewis RN’ built in 1960 – was also used to help run the service.

Mark Woolley said: “Visual surveys indicated that up to 70 per cent of passengers travelling on last year’s Swanage to Wareham service arrived or departed from Wareham by a main line train which fulfils one of the trial service’s key objectives.

“The performance of our Wareham trains was good thanks to a robust timetable and our connections with main line trains were well maintained. Despite the operational success of the 60 selected day trial, the service was operated at a financial loss and the use of a contracted third party operator cannot be repeated in 2018,” he added.
 

Cowley

Established Member
Associate Staff
General Discussion
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
8,325
Location
Devon
Like a huge buzzard overhead haha! Ah thanks for correcting me there Mr C :) That would provide far better capacity than the 108 then.
Sorry about that ;).

A couple of things strike me here.
As it suggests in the statement there’s no point paying a fortune out to WCRC and making a huge loss to run the service at this point. After decades of waiting, one more year isn’t going to matter too much in the scheme of things.
Better to get it right and have the permanent launch next year with the correct railway owned stock doing the job.
I have faith in the Railway that they’ll get this right and make it work, and it may be too slow to compete with the bus at the moment (when the roads are running freely anyway), but this is just the very beginning of the service and things may well change over the next decade.

This last year must have been invaluable in understanding how to operate it all when it gets going properly.

On a bit of a tangent now - Are these units then fully capable of running over most of the network at a reasonable speed with all their modifications?
If so would there be scope for the railway to earn a bit of extra money from them by allowing their use on the occasional mini tour in the South/South West?
 

Firesprite

Member
Joined
22 Dec 2011
Messages
295
Location
Fens
I think this is what an influential, but tiny, faction in the railway wanted - failure. They did not want main line running.
The 25 mph creep through Purbeck, when the 50 double decker bus overtook at twice the speed, the crude & expensive( thanks to NR) turn round system at Wareham adding to cost, & the lack of warm waiting rooms at Wareham & few platform seats were designed for failure. Only enthusiasts used the service more than once
And what a shame when so many Swanage railway people put so much energy & enthusiasm into it, & many pressed for 40 mph running.
The number 50 Swanage-Bournemouth Bus goes over the Studland-Sandbanks ferry, not via Wareham. The speed limit on the road is only 40mph, so not twice the speed.

As for Journey time it is about the same as the number 40 bus (Which does not serve Harmans Cross), The train is also not delayed by road traffic unlike the bus in the summer months.

As for the price when compared with local bus fares (ie: Wareham-Corfe is £8.60 return), The train is only 40p more) or cheaper if you have the Local Purbeck Residents* Discount Card (33% off)which is popular. So if you do have the card it is only £10 return Swanage-Wareham (£1.40 more) Many locals do use the train to get about through out the year. A local resident is a resident in the Purbeck District Council Tax Area. On my visit on the last weekend of service, I noted many suitcases being loaded at Wareham, Swanage and Corfe Castle. A clear cut case of the service being used for what it was intended. No room for suitcases on a bus.

Not being able to use the sidings is not NR fault. It's all down to the requirement for more train movements requires that the crossing must be closed. The latest bridge plans are under review by Purbeck Council. The planning committee is scheduled to meet at Westport House, Wareham, at 9.15am on January 31. The recommendation to PC planning committee members is to grant approval. Historic England has accepted the current plans as the "least worst" option for providing step-free access at Wareham railway station. The existing brick footbridge would be retained. But there is objections by local residents to the ramped bridge plans with actor Edward Fox as one of the biggest objector's.
 

alexl92

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
1,793
Out of interest, were losses expected? Just thinking that if passenger numbers were more or less bang on target then their financial takings must have been more or less as predicted too - so did the hire-in cost more than expected or was there another factor they hadn't quite budgeted for?

(Not being critical btw - just interested in how it all works!)
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
23,934
Location
Yorks
The number 50 Swanage-Bournemouth Bus goes over the Studland-Sandbanks ferry, not via Wareham. The speed limit on the road is only 40mph, so not twice the speed.

As for Journey time it is about the same as the number 40 bus (Which does not serve Harmans Cross), The train is also not delayed by road traffic unlike the bus in the summer months.

As for the price when compared with local bus fares (ie: Wareham-Corfe is £8.60 return), The train is only 40p more) or cheaper if you have the Local Purbeck Residents* Discount Card (33% off)which is popular. So if you do have the card it is only £10 return Swanage-Wareham (£1.40 more) Many locals do use the train to get about through out the year. A local resident is a resident in the Purbeck District Council Tax Area. On my visit on the last weekend of service, I noted many suitcases being loaded at Wareham, Swanage and Corfe Castle. A clear cut case of the service being used for what it was intended. No room for suitcases on a bus.

Not being able to use the sidings is not NR fault. It's all down to the requirement for more train movements requires that the crossing must be closed. The latest bridge plans are under review by Purbeck Council. The planning committee is scheduled to meet at Westport House, Wareham, at 9.15am on January 31. The recommendation to PC planning committee members is to grant approval. Historic England has accepted the current plans as the "least worst" option for providing step-free access at Wareham railway station. The existing brick footbridge would be retained. But there is objections by local residents to the ramped bridge plans with actor Edward Fox as one of the biggest objector's.
Out of interest, if they're keeping the existing footbridge, couldn't they build the new one with lifts instead ?
 

CorrectFacts

New Member
Joined
25 Jan 2018
Messages
3
The number 50 Swanage-Bournemouth Bus goes over the Studland-Sandbanks ferry, not via Wareham. The speed limit on the road is only 40mph, so not twice the speed.

As for Journey time it is about the same as the number 40 bus (Which does not serve Harmans Cross), The train is also not delayed by road traffic unlike the bus in the summer months.

As for the price when compared with local bus fares (ie: Wareham-Corfe is £8.60 return), The train is only 40p more) or cheaper if you have the Local Purbeck Residents* Discount Card (33% off)which is popular. So if you do have the card it is only £10 return Swanage-Wareham (£1.40 more) Many locals do use the train to get about through out the year. A local resident is a resident in the Purbeck District Council Tax Area. On my visit on the last weekend of service, I noted many suitcases being loaded at Wareham, Swanage and Corfe Castle. A clear cut case of the service being used for what it was intended. No room for suitcases on a bus.

Not being able to use the sidings is not NR fault. It's all down to the requirement for more train movements requires that the crossing must be closed. The latest bridge plans are under review by Purbeck Council. The planning committee is scheduled to meet at Westport House, Wareham, at 9.15am on January 31. The recommendation to PC planning committee members is to grant approval. Historic England has accepted the current plans as the "least worst" option for providing step-free access at Wareham railway station. The existing brick footbridge would be retained. But there is objections by local residents to the ramped bridge plans with actor Edward Fox as one of the biggest objector's.
It is only correct that inaccuracies in your post are corrected.
1. When within the “national speed limit” the buses are able to travel at 50 mph (max)

2. The return fare on the 40 Breezer from Wareham Railway Station to Corfe Castle, East Street is £6.00

3. There are facilities on the bus on the right hand side as you get on.

4. Perhaps you could post a link, within the DCC application and comments, stating that Historic England have accepted the plans as the “least worst” option.
 

E-Rail

Member
Joined
7 Dec 2012
Messages
156
Just for the record, Morebus which operates the Purbeck Breezer 40 has recently been named Top Shire operator of The Year at the UK Bus Awards, it's parent Go South Coast won UK Operator of The Year at the same awards. Go South Coast also scooped Operator Of The Year at the Route One Awards in November. On top of that, the Purbeck Breezers also won the Bournemouth Tourism Awards last year. Despite the Wareham to Swanage service operating last summer, the 40 carried record numbers and may be increased to half hourly this summer. The Swanage Railway is complimentary to the Breezer 40 but it is not serious competition. Correct that the 40 doesn't serve Harmans Cross but the two hourly Breezer 30 from Weymouth to Swanage does link Wareham and Harmans Cross. Also, to settle the speed limit point, our current Volvo fleet is limited to 49mph and the route is timed at that speed where speed limits permit.
 

WishIHadAName

Member
Joined
8 Jul 2015
Messages
24
I think this is what an influential, but tiny, faction in the railway wanted - failure. They did not want main line running.
The 25 mph creep through Purbeck, when the 50 double decker bus overtook at twice the speed, the crude & expensive( thanks to NR) turn round system at Wareham adding to cost, & the lack of warm waiting rooms at Wareham & few platform seats were designed for failure. Only enthusiasts used the service more than once
And what a shame when so many Swanage railway people put so much energy & enthusiasm into it, & many pressed for 40 mph running.
If it makes a loss adding 40mph to the line would cost even more. It would no longer be a light railway for one, so presumabely there would be different safety measures and upgrades needed to run faster. And insurance would be more on top of this, hence no other heritage railway runs above 25mph?. And it is a heritage railway not a form of transport. The majority of people who use the line want a steam train ride too the sea side.
 

Firesprite

Member
Joined
22 Dec 2011
Messages
295
Location
Fens
It is only correct that inaccuracies in your post are corrected.
1. When within the “national speed limit” the buses are able to travel at 50 mph (max)

2. The return fare on the 40 Breezer from Wareham Railway Station to Corfe Castle, East Street is £6.00

3. There are facilities on the bus on the right hand side as you get on.

4. Perhaps you could post a link, within the DCC application and comments, stating that Historic England have accepted the plans as the “least worst” option.
1)The speed limit on that road had for many years has been 40mph. Apart from that travel above 40mph on bus is most unpleasant even more so if you have to stand while underway.

2) £8.20 is the fare that I and most likely many others have been charged, being told that the day ticket was the cheapest fare.

3) The space is too small for a normal suitcase. Where would you put the two dozen or so suitcases that were loaded on to the train?

4) http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...strict__39_s_Wareham_railway_bridge_decision/

CONTROVERSIAL plans for a ramped bridge to replace the existing surface level crossing at Wareham railway station will be heard by district officials next week. (Jan 31)

Purbeck District Council's (PDC) planning committee is set to decide whether or not to back the plans. Ultimately, County Hall will determine the application, but the district council is an important consultee.

Rail bosses have wanted to close the existing pedestrian crossing at Wareham for years, citing safety concerns as their reasons why. However, town residents - who argue the crossing is part of a vital route linking the town centre to Northmoor - have been largely opposed to the move.

Even one of Wareham's most famous residents, the iconic actor Edward Fox, has campaigned against the new bridge. He said: "Local residents have made clear their objections to the ramped bridge."

Out of the 50 comments received by PDC regarding the bridge application, 49 raise concerns.

In 2016 more than 2,200 people signed a petition calling for the retention of the surface crossing, which is controlled by locking gates and manned by a security guard.

One idea mooted by campaigners is for the gates to be linked to the signal system, in much the same way as the pedestrian crossing in Poole town centre is.

DCC and Network Rail want to build new access ramps on either side of the existing rail bridge at Wareham station, which is directly next to surface crossing.

The current lease between Network Rail and Dorset County Council lasts until 2038, but it will not be renewed and the crossing will close.

Residents say they're concerned about the proposed steep one-in-12 gradient and the increased time it would add to journeys between the north and south of town.

Historic England has accepted the current proposal as the "least worst" option for providing step-free access at Wareham railway station. The existing brick footbridge would be retained.

The recommendation to PDC planning committee members is to grant approval.
 
Last edited:

CorrectFacts

New Member
Joined
25 Jan 2018
Messages
3
1)The speed limit on that road had for many years has been 40mph. Apart from that travel above 40mph on bus is most unpleasant even more so if you have to stand while underway.
http://product.itoworld.com/map/124?lon=-1.77637&lat=50.76235&zoom=10

2) £8.20 is the fare that I and most likely many others have been charged, being told that the day ticket was the cheapest fare.
http://www.morebus.co.uk/fares.shtml

3) The space is too small for a normal suitcase. Where would you put the two dozen or so suitcases that were loaded on to the train?
What has been happening for the last 40 years?

4) http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...strict__39_s_Wareham_railway_bridge_decision/
http://countyplanning.dorsetforyou.com/ePlanningOPS/tabPage3.jsp?aplId=5937
 

joncombe

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2016
Messages
371
Sad and rather disappointed to hear this. The trial service had been due to start at least two years earlier than it actually did last year. They finally ran it last year (and I used it) and stated the usage was higher than predicted so it sounds like it was a success. So I don't follow why they can't run it again this year then. If they ran at a huge loss year but more people used it than expected then it sounds like someone got their sums wrong. I believe they got funding for Dorset County Council to restore this link (possibly also Purbeck Council) as it was hoped it would reduce congestion on the A351 so I can't imagine the Council will be too pleased to hear it won't be running during the summer season again next year.

I have family that live in Dorset who largely consider Swanage and Corfe Castle inacessible during the summer months. A journey from Bournmouth or Poole to Swanage can easily take more than 2 hours in the summer months and hence why they also found this trial service useful and used it last year. The queues for the Sandbanks ferry can easily top 1 hour. The A351 will usually be queuing traffic all the way from Corfe Castle to the Bakers Arms (A35) roundabout goung north during the summer and nearly as bad going south. The buses on the 40 get stuck in the same traffic as there is no room for bus lanes on the A351 (and this is a rural area, so many people are dependant on cars). On the route 50 from Bournemouth they can skip the queue from the Sandbanks direction (because the road around Sandbanks is one way with one lane for ferry traffic and another for through traffic, so the bus can use the through traffic lane and a short bus lane to skip to the front of the ferry queue). However this only works if the queue for the ferry is not back beyond the one-way system (it often is in summer). At the other end there is no bus lane and the buses do what looks to me a rather dangerous manouvure, which is that they have flashing lights and beepers on the bus and drive on the wrong side of the road in order to get to the front of the ferry queue. I presume they communicate with the ferry to make sure they don't do this as the ferry is just unloading, but there is still the risk of traffic coming from the beach car parks etc.

I'd love to see SWR run a regular service (ideally hourly) from Wareham (or even Bournemouth) to Swanage supplemented by seasonal steam trains between Norden and Swanage but I can't see it happening at the moment, though a seasonal service might be possible (there were rumours SWT was considering such a service as I believe they applied for a path from London to Wareham with a Diesel unit which would suggest an intention to run onto Swanage).
 

headshot119

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2010
Messages
1,896
Location
Dubai
Sad and rather disappointed to hear this. The trial service had been due to start at least two years earlier than it actually did last year. They finally ran it last year (and I used it) and stated the usage was higher than predicted so it sounds like it was a success. So I don't follow why they can't run it again this year then. If they ran at a huge loss year but more people used it than expected then it sounds like someone got their sums wrong. I believe they got funding for Dorset County Council to restore this link (possibly also Purbeck Council) as it was hoped it would reduce congestion on the A351 so I can't imagine the Council will be too pleased to hear it won't be running during the summer season again next year.
No one got the sums wrong, the loss was caused by having to hire in rolling stock for the service.
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,785
If it makes a loss adding 40mph to the line would cost even more. It would no longer be a light railway for one, so presumabely there would be different safety measures and upgrades needed to run faster. And insurance would be more on top of this, hence no other heritage railway runs above 25mph?. And it is a heritage railway not a form of transport. The majority of people who use the line want a steam train ride too the sea side.
I would say anyone moaning about 25mph running would be well advised to read the piece by Railnews MD Sim Harris in the paper's 250th issue (December 17) on the West Somerset Railway. It doesn't cover everything but provides a good insight.
 

Firesprite

Member
Joined
22 Dec 2011
Messages
295
Location
Fens
1)The speed limit on that road had for many years has been 40mph. Apart from that travel above 40mph on bus is most unpleasant even more so if you have to stand while underway.
http://product.itoworld.com/map/124?lon=-1.77637&lat=50.76235&zoom=10
Speed limits are not a target, Clearly you think they are. The road between Wareham and Swanage has had far to many crashes over the years due to speed. To many prats don't drive to suit the conditions that includes some bus drivers.

2) £8.20 is the fare that I and most likely many others have been charged, being told that the day ticket was the cheapest fare.
http://www.morebus.co.uk/fares.shtml

When Job Public get on a bus, they quite rightly expect to be charged the right fare. To often this is not the case. Do you expect Joe Public look up the website at the bus stop?

3) The space is too small for a normal suitcase. Where would you put the two dozen or so suitcases that were loaded on to the train?
What has been happening for the last 40 years?

They had to take cab, (You are very limited to what you can take on a bus). As they still do today. Most people will only take a bus as a last resort. At the moment in this country you can never guarantee when a bus is going to arrive.... I don't count the number of times I have seen a timetable saying every 30min, 45min later I am still waiting... I don't count because it all most every time. People see bus timetables as fictional. Buses not turning up often the case with the last service. , being 30 mins late (1hour service), or even more annoying, buses being 5 mins early, so you see them sail off down the road as you arrive at the bus stop.
 
Last edited:

Firesprite

Member
Joined
22 Dec 2011
Messages
295
Location
Fens
If it makes a loss adding 40mph to the line would cost even more. It would no longer be a light railway for one, so presumabely there would be different safety measures and upgrades needed to run faster. And insurance would be more on top of this, hence no other heritage railway runs above 25mph?. And it is a heritage railway not a form of transport. The majority of people who use the line want a steam train ride too the sea side.
Is it a form of transport? Does take people from A to B (Yes), Can the public use it (Yes). So there fore it is Public Transport and people use it as such. There is very limited public parking (18spaces) in Corfe Castle so people park at Norden and take the train to get to the castle. The local railcard has a uptake well in to the 1000's and is well used. Many people using the campsites by the line use the train to get about. You can take alot of stuff on the train that you cannot on a bus. You often see shopping taken on broad and large items placed in the brake van. Don't forget that Norden Park and Ride had to be opened before services to Corfe Castle could start. The Park and Ride forms part of the local transport plan as does the railway.
 

Firesprite

Member
Joined
22 Dec 2011
Messages
295
Location
Fens
the lack of warm waiting rooms at Wareham & few platform seats were designed for failure. Only enthusiasts used the service more than once
And what a shame when so many Swanage railway people put so much energy & enthusiasm into it, & many pressed for 40 mph running.
The waiting rooms have heaters, just need to be turned on. Many normal people were using it more than once, not just enthusiasts, It could be relied on unlike the bus.
 

Top