Switzerland - Where to go if you're a rail enthusiast

[axlecounter]

Ah yes, in that context I was - the EW I/II are quite Spartan and I don't find the seats very comfortable - and woe betide anyone who sits opposite me if they aren't 4' or shorter.

Don't say that to a Swiss enthusiast!

 

[class387]

Don't say that to a Swiss enthusiast!

I did want to ask, what is the opinion among enthusiasts in Switzerland on the EW I/IIs? Are they rated highly or not?

 

[Gordon]

I did want to ask, what is the opinion among enthusiasts in Switzerland on the EW I/IIs? Are they rated highly or not?

You would have to give parameters, as the stock has been modified inside a few times. I have lived through all eras and can comment on my own memories of each era if you wish.

The main thing is that they are noisier than more recent builds.

.

 

[class387]

You would have to give parameters, as the stock has been modified inside a few times. I have lived through all eras and can comment on my own memories of each era if you wish.

The main thing is that they are noisier than more recent builds.

.

I was just wondering whether axlecounter's comments were criticism or praise.

Mainly interested in them in their present form. In other words, if a train of, lets say EW IVs, were substituted with an EW I/II Ersatzzug, would they be happy or not?

 

[Gordon]

In other words, if a train of, lets say EW IVs, were substituted with an EW I/II Ersatzzug, would they be happy or not?

.

Enthusiasts possibly, the general public probably not, because the construction of the EWI/II is still more old fashioned than the EWIV, with less noise deadening and the lack of sealed windows.


.

 

[axlecounter]

.

Enthusiasts possibly, the general public probably not, because the construction of the EWI/II is still more old fashioned than the EWIV, with less noise deadening and the lack of sealed windows.

...and that's part of why they are liked, no air-con and openable windows (good to take photos, I guess...). And their seats, which are usually considered more comfortable than the hard non-padding of EW IV.

But I agree that the general public doesn't care much about those "features", especially the lack of air conditioned. Usually when such an Ersatzzug comes you hear moaning about "old trains" and such...

 

[Mag_seven]

I love it when one of the older coaches comes along. Get yourself into the front seat, pull the window down and listen to the Re420 whine away - heaven!

 

[Gordon]

, pull the window down and listen to the Re420

and to the moans of the general public who don't want the window open!


.

 

[Bletchleyite]

and to the moans of the general public who don't want the window open!

The Swiss aren't generally too bothered, IME. In the days of the fresh air UIC stock in summer it was not unusual for *all* the windows to be fully open for the run alongside Lake Geneva.

It's not Germany, where "das Oeffnen des Fensters ist streng verboten", particularly in the smoking coach where the loss of a tiny bit of nicotine was considered wasteful.

 

[43096]

Something else to look out for is the 'Ersatzzug'. These are loco-hauled trains with stock from the 60s/70s drafted in if a train is unavailable to avoid cancelling it, or if an international train is 30min+ delayed.

Errrrrr, no. An "ersatzzug" is a "replacement train" i.e. not the booked stock. Whilst they often are EW I/II sets with an Re4/4ii, that is not necessarily the case.

As an example, I have been at Basel when there was an ersatzzug announced for EC7 (late running from Germany again!) and it was formed of a full SBB EuroCity set with restaurant car, hauled by a Re460. Certainly didn't object as it was one of my last few Re460s for haulage!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You sometimes also get an "Ersatzzug" if a guard is unavailable, as most of the EW I/IIs have been modified to run DOO.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The IR trains along Lac Léman (Lake Geneva) have resorted to EWIV and Re460 but with the loco at the Geneva end, I believe. No restaurant car, but maybe a trolley service. I've not been since 2011 when there was little if any push-pull, and some stock still was of the old variety with opening windows.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The IR trains along Lac Léman (Lake Geneva) have resorted to EWIV and Re460 but with the loco at the Geneva end, I believe. No restaurant car, but maybe a trolley service. I've not been since 2011 when there was little if any push-pull, and some stock still was of the old variety with opening windows.

Correct, all EW IV push-pull, near enough. No catering of any kind.

 

[class387]

Errrrrr, no. An "ersatzzug" is a "replacement train" i.e. not the booked stock. Whilst they often are EW I/II sets with an Re4/4ii, that is not necessarily the case.

As an example, I have been at Basel when there was an ersatzzug announced for EC7 (late running from Germany again!) and it was formed of a full SBB EuroCity set with restaurant car, hauled by a Re460. Certainly didn't object as it was one of my last few Re460s for haulage!

I know. I've had an Re450 Zurich S-Bahn set on an IR to Luzern once, but most that I have seen are EW I/II, especially on ICEs

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The Swiss aren't generally too bothered, IME. In the days of the fresh air UIC stock in summer it was not unusual for *all* the windows to be fully open for the run alongside Lake Geneva.

It's not Germany, where "das Oeffnen des Fensters ist streng verboten", particularly in the smoking coach where the loss of a tiny bit of nicotine was considered wasteful.

I agree, it does seem to be a German characteristic to be allergic to moving fresh air! Though tbf the only notices I've ever noticed simply say "Warnung: nicht hinauslehnen" with various translations.

 

[Gordon]

The IR trains along Lac Léman (Lake Geneva) have resorted to EWIV and Re460 but with the loco at the Geneva end, I believe. No restaurant car, but maybe a trolley service. I've not been since 2011 when there was little if any push-pull, and some stock still was of the old variety with opening windows.

From around 2009 - 2015 the Genève - Brig service was non push pull with 460s, and most trains included fresh air RIC 2nds (and ex SNCF baggage cars). From the start of the 2016 timetable all trains have been push pull.

Catering was removed around a decade ago. SBB derated the trains from IC so that this could be done. This has been unwelcome for passengers especially in the ski season when those flying into Genève and heading for Valais ski resorts have a long journey with no on-train catering.

However note that the trains are not 100% EWIV. SBB (OFT) has a 'train type' designation of "EC/EWIV". This caters for the sets that include both types as they have been gradually modified and refurbished to have similar operating characteristics to render them interchangeable.



.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is typically one EC coach per set (I forgot about those). Worth heading for it due to improved legroom (2nd class seats at 1st spacing). The driving trailers are all ex-EC I think?

 

[hexagon789]

The single-deck driving trailers (Bt) are of the EW IV type, though I believe that they were originally used more often with the EC (EuroCity) coaches. The push-pull sets generally contain one EuroCity Bpm coach as these have been fitted with a wheelchair accessible lavatory and have space for 2 wheelchairs, this means these vehicles seat 77 Second Class passengers compared to the 86 of the EW IV B or Second Class coaches. The Genève Aéroport-Brig IR are at minimum formed of a basic 7-coach push-pull set, often they 9-coaches though and frequently have another mini-push-pull set of a Bt Driving trailer and 1-3 coaches tacked on to the front of the first driving trailer. The basic 7-car fornations are typically Re460-AS-A-Bpm*-B-B-B-Bt (*EuroCity coach, others are EW IV), this basic 7-coach formation can be seen as the Base of most push-pull IR trains across the SBB network. Also, I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the hourly Genève Aéroport-Luzern IRs still had a trolley service, at least the European Rail timetable suggests they do.

 

[duesselmartin]

I agree, it does seem to be a German characteristic to be allergic to moving fresh air! Though tbf the only notices I've ever noticed simply say "Warnung: nicht hinauslehnen" with various translations.

Although we die sleep with open window all year around at all weather for the frische Luft
Usually in summer, the silverfish stock had windows wide open even in Germany.
I don't think there is any stock left where you can do that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Usually in summer, the silverfish stock had windows wide open even in Germany.

As an aside, I've seen "Silberling" translated as "silverfish" before, though I'm not clear why, do you know? I don't really see a translation as it's a proper noun, but isn't it more like the wordier "little silver thing"?

And Wiki thinks it's a silver coin: "Historically, Silberling is a silver coin and widely know from the bible: the thirty pieces of silver (in the German Bible: "30 Silberlinge", Matthew 26,14) Judas obtained for his treason."

 

[Groningen]

The Silberlingen in Germany had always the smell of plastic and it always looked if glue was put to your clothes.

Source: Drehscheibe

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Although we die sleep with open window all year around at all weather for the frische Luft
Usually in summer, the silverfish stock had windows wide open even in Germany.
I don't think there is any stock left where you can do that.

Does that mean all the refurbished Silberlingen have been withdrawn? Because I remember being very impressed when first coming across them that the fully opening windows remained but with modern handles and improved seals to go along with the improved seat covers.

 

[duesselmartin]

A small handful might still be about around Stuttgart or Frankfurt. But in most regions they are gone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does that mean all the refurbished Silberlingen have been withdrawn? Because I remember being very impressed when first coming across them that the fully opening windows remained but with modern handles and improved seals to go along with the improved seat covers.

SBB have refurbed the fresh-air RIC coaches with brand new full-droplights.

The "Gruenlinge" fooled me when I first encountered them in 1995. I thought at the time DB were just building new to an old design, so comprehensive was the refurb - not a single panel left untouched.

 

[in_luzern]

Also, I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the hourly Genève Aéroport-Luzern IRs still had a trolley service, at least the European Rail timetable suggests they do.

Yes, it does - or at least it did earlier this year, haven't used it since April.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's not so much "IRs can't have trolleys" as "ICs all have catering".

 

[Gordon]

As an aside, I've seen "Silberling" translated as "silverfish" before, though I'm not clear why, do you know?

Because the pattern on the lower bodyside looks like fish scales.



.

 

[duesselmartin]

The Silberlingen in Germany had always the smell of plastic and it always looked if glue was put to your clothes.

Source: Drehscheibe

but nowadays people are nostaglic