SWR ASLEF preparing for dispute over pay

[pompeyfan]

ASLEF are preparing for industrial action over the stall in pay negotiations by giving SWR an ultimatum. It seems work to rule has unofficially been implemented with several drivers withdrawing rest day work over the weekend.

(I’m unfortunately unable to copy the text from the letter as it’s a screenshot, not a PDF)


(Screenshot of letter removed due to ethical concerns from other members)

 

[SWT_USER]

Great, more misery for SWR commuters

 

[Llama]

Drivers withdrawing their own availability to work rest days doesn't constitute a work to rule. Any unofficial industrial action, whether a work to rule or something else, would not be legal and would quickly be challenged.
Rest day working agreements run for finite periods of time and allow for either party (company or union) to withdraw rest day working with a certain amount of notice. This wouldn't be considered industrial action.

 

[pompeyfan]

Drivers withdrawing their own availability to work rest days doesn't constitute a work to rule. Any unofficial industrial action, whether a work to rule or something else, would not be legal and would quickly be challenged.
Rest day working agreements run for finite periods of time and allow for either party (company or union) to withdraw rest day working with a certain amount of notice. This wouldn't be considered industrial action.

If I remember correctly drivers can be rostered on the 36 hour sheets with Rest Day Work, but can withdraw with 24 hours notice. Sunday’s sheets were published yesterday but lots of the work is now uncovered, completely within their contracts but has only come about because of this letter, that’s why I classed it as unofficial work to rule.

 

[matt_world2004]

Drivers withdrawing their own availability to work rest days doesn't constitute a work to rule. Any unofficial industrial action, whether a work to rule or something else, would not be legal and would quickly be challenged.
Rest day working agreements run for finite periods of time and allow for either party (company or union) to withdraw rest day working with a certain amount of notice. This wouldn't be considered industrial action.

Eh work to rule is sticking within the rules without going above and beyond that. Its a form of malicious compliance work to rule doesn't require notification of the company or other trade union processes

 

[Randomer]

Have to agree that the letter itself in no way encourages unofficial union action. They would be pretty stupid to put it in writing anyway, asking for legal action if done.

Doesn't mean the message being passed verbally by reps to go along with the letter isn't saying something entirely different though. Note I have no personal knowledge that this may be the case here.

 

[Llama]

Eh work to rule is sticking within the rules without going above and beyond that. Its a form of malicious compliance work to rule doesn't require notification of the company or other trade union processes

It's called action short of a strike and would be illegal if not officially mandated by a trade union.

 

[matt_world2004]

It's called action short of a strike and would be illegal if not officially mandated by a trade union.

So sticking to us it employment contract is illegal now . Nope.

 

[Llama]

If it differs from normal custom and practice of a workforce then yes it can be. Try it yourself and let us know how you get on.

 

[matt_world2004]

If it differs from normal custom and practice of a workforce then yes it can be. Try it yourself and let us know how you get on.

Currently on a work to rule thanks.

 

[LowLevel]

So sticking to us it employment contract is illegal now . Nope.

If you all go to a union meeting or send around an email saying 'no one work rest days' without a ballot it may be considered unofficial action and the company may sue the perpetrator.

Should everyone decide to do the same with no evidence that it is coordinated action/being incited by someone then that is a different matter.

 

[Tooktook]

I wonder what figures are being looked at for drivers?!

I’ve always thought swr drivers are (for the industry) paid a comparatively low driver wage considering the route and traction knowledge that drivers hold. I only say comparatively to other tocs, particularly London based ones. I know it’s still a good wage.

I guess one question is how much of the Swrs work is covered by rest days? They often seem to be recruiting for London based drivers .

 

[Meerkat]

Am I just cynical in thinking SWR are delaying because they want an explicit DCO clause in there but the time isn’t right to publicise it (they really needed those 701s in by now!)

 

[Brissle Girl]

I’m sure there’s a connection with the DCO issue as SWR will want to wrap the two things up together. Meanwhile it’s over three weeks since the RMT ballot result and no announcement of further strike action which is intriguing. It could be that the three sides are playing a game of poker and none wishes to move first, with the unions both wanting to see the outcome of the negotiations with the other union to strengthen their position.

 

[SWT_USER]

The DOO clause is already in SWR drivers contracts isn't it?

 

[theking]

I wonder what figures are being looked at for drivers?!

I’ve always thought swr drivers are (for the industry) paid a comparatively low driver wage considering the route and traction knowledge that drivers hold. I only say comparatively to other tocs, particularly London based ones. I know it’s still a good wage.

I guess one question is how much of the Swrs work is covered by rest days? They often seem to be recruiting for London based drivers .

Why do they deserve the same amount of money as a doo driver they run around with guards and have zero risk associated with DOO and half the responsibilities of a doo driver.

 

[Tooktook]

In fairness I never said they deserve the same as a doo driver. I am also a doo driver by the way.

I just think there’s an argument they could get more for the multiple routes and traction. More than the current wage.

 

[joystick]

Why do they deserve the same amount of money as a doo driver they run around with guards and have zero risk associated with DOO and half the responsibilities of a doo driver.

Who said they were asking for that much ? The point is the pay deal ended April 2019 and there is no offer after 9 months.

 

[pompeyfan]

Who said they were asking for that much ? The point is the pay deal ended April 2019 and there is no offer after 9 months.

Was it not April 18 that it’ll be backdated to?

how does it compare with LNR, TfW, Northern and all the other non DOO TOCs? I believe SWR drivers are on just over £50k?

worth bearing in mind that the GWR harmonisation deal also say big pay rises for very little extra expected from the majority of drivers, with west depots still operating the same stock with the same method of operation, and Turbo depots moving (only) moving over to driver open.

 

[joystick]

£51,817.00 from aslef web site plus allowances , Lner almost £69,000, April 19 is the claim date .

 

[theironroad]

Why do they deserve the same amount of money as a doo driver they run around with guards and have zero risk associated with DOO and half the responsibilities of a doo driver.

Quite a statement. Leaving the doors out of the equation, just how does a driver with a guard have "half" the responsibilities of a doo driver. Please enlighten me.

 

[theironroad]

ASLEF are preparing for industrial action over the stall in pay negotiations by giving SWR an ultimatum. It seems work to rule has unofficially been implemented with several drivers withdrawing rest day work over the weekend.

(I’m unfortunately unable to copy the text from the letter as it’s a screenshot, not a PDF)

I'm not sure posting internal newsletters from a union rep to their members on a public forum is a particularly ethical thing to do.

I'd certainly never consider posting something stuck on a noticeboard by a RMT or guards rep to the wide world.

 

[pompeyfan]

I'm not sure posting internal newsletters from a union rep to their members on a public forum is a particularly ethical thing to do.

I'd certainly never consider posting something stuck on a noticeboard by a RMT or guards rep to the wide world.

I appreciate where you’re coming from, but it was shared already widely on twitter. I’ve just lifted the screen grab from there.

 

[Meole]

SWR gets paid by the Government on strike days so little incentive to come to agreement.

 

[Cavan]

I'm not sure posting internal newsletters from a union rep to their members on a public forum is a particularly ethical thing to do.

I'd certainly never consider posting something stuck on a noticeboard by a RMT or guards rep to the wide world.

Was published on twitter by the "Anon SWR" account already..........

 

[theironroad]

I appreciate where you’re coming from, but it was shared already widely on twitter. I’ve just lifted the screen grab from there.

Was published on twitter by the "Anon SWR" account already..........

Fair enough.

Right now, anonswr publishing it doesn't really help anyone as just arouses more anxiety from passengers that may be totally unnecessary.

To be really pedantic, anonswr on twitter claims drivers are 'in dispute' with SWR but I believe in trade union collective bargaining, being 'in dispute' is a formal declaration to the company from the union that industrial relations have broken down over the issue being talked about as a pre cursor of moving towards some sort of further action.

Currently there is NO formal dispute between aslef and swr.

Clearly there is a massive gulf between the two sides, though even that may not be true as I detect the guiding hand of the dft and government behind this, not helped by SWR being on the radar of dft for poor performance and First's poverty pleas. Whether the dft have blocked this is the question, as drivers were lead to believe that some sort of deal was very close.

What happens after the ten days elapse is the big unknown right now but it fair to say that this pay deal, that was due on1 April 2019, is now sorely testing the patience of drivers and clearly they will be in formal dispute if nothing is forthcoming soon.

The company are still agreeing pay deals, as the guards, station staff etc have just had a pay offer accepted by the RMT if mess room talk is correct.

 

[theking]

Quite a statement. Leaving the doors out of the equation, just how does a driver with a guard have "half" the responsibilities of a doo driver. Please enlighten me.

Are they the sole person responsible for the safety of the train and passengers.
No.

Do they go back and reset passcoms or egresses. No.

Are they responsible for dispatch. No.

Do they have to deal with passengers. No.

Are they the sole person responsible for emergency situations. No.

There are probably other things that I can't think of off the top of my head but a doo driver has more workload than one with a guard.

Anyway off topic so I will stop now.

 

[bb21]

Please discuss this in a separate thread if so required.

 

[dctraindriver]

Forgive me BB but if I’m in a 707 or 455/456 10 car unit then as the guard is stuck behind me in a no through cab 3 of those answer No are in fact yes and I’ve had to do so personally.

Totally accept a DOO driver has other things to deal with.

And I will will get back on topic with my next post....

Are they the sole person responsible for the safety of the train and passengers.
No.

Do they go back and reset passcoms or egresses. No.

Are they responsible for dispatch. No.

Do they have to deal with passengers. No.

Are they the sole person responsible for emergency situations. No.

There are probably other things that I can't think of off the top of my head but a doo driver has more workload than one with a guard.

Anyway off topic so I will stop now.

 

[dctraindriver]

Fair enough.

Right now, anonswr publishing it doesn't really help anyone as just arouses more anxiety from passengers that may be totally unnecessary.

To be really pedantic, anonswr on twitter claims drivers are 'in dispute' with SWR but I believe in trade union collective bargaining, being 'in dispute' is a formal declaration to the company from the union that industrial relations have broken down over the issue being talked about as a pre cursor of moving towards some sort of further action.

Currently there is NO formal dispute between aslef and swr.

Clearly there is a massive gulf between the two sides, though even that may not be true as I detect the guiding hand of the dft and government behind this, not helped by SWR being on the radar of dft for poor performance and First's poverty pleas. Whether the dft have blocked this is the question, as drivers were lead to believe that some sort of deal was very close.

What happens after the ten days elapse is the big unknown right now but it fair to say that this pay deal, that was due on1 April 2019, is now sorely testing the patience of drivers and clearly they will be in formal dispute if nothing is forthcoming soon.

The company are still agreeing pay deals, as the guards, station staff etc have just had a pay offer accepted by the RMT if mess room talk is correct.

You’re not the first driver I’ve heard today state DFT misgivings.......