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SWR Class 458 to be retained

Bikeman78

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Indeed. This mornings peak is the first that SWR have had 70 455s in passenger use from the fleet of 80(+2). SWR must be about hitting the buffer stops of how many 458 diagrams can be absorbed by the 40 year old 455s.
Back in the day, didn't they cover 84 diagrams with 91 units?
 
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Big Jumby 74

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ack in the day, didn't they cover 84 diagrams with 91 units?
It was 86 from 91 for many years. It initially dropped to 84 so the cab air con mod could be done, can't remember the date, but they had to be taken out in pairs as the suburban ran (on a planned basis) as an eight car railway. Then after that the early plans for the 10 car railway started to be looked at, and with the introduction of the initial 458/5's formed (in basic terms for this discussion) of the additional cars provided from the 460 fleet, and the subsequent stock cascades, there was no need to revert to 86. This had benefits in that there were (at one time) plans to introduce two additional peak time Windsor line services, which were both planned to be 8 car 455, but events/politics (whatever) rendered those plans nul and void, and so 84/91 remained until the end of the SWT era.
 

Goldfish62

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Still got great availability given their age and SWR would be dead in the water now without them. SWT retractioning was very prescient.
Very much so, although the retractioning wasn't to extend life per se, but to reduce maintenance downtime on the fleet to avoid additional facilities being required at Wimbledon when the 701s were introduced.
 

43096

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Very much so, although the retractioning wasn't to extend life per se, but to reduce maintenance downtime on the fleet to avoid additional facilities being required at Wimbledon when the 701s were introduced.
I assume that's a typo for 707s?
 

DelW

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Still got great availability given their age and SWR would be dead in the water now without them. SWT retractioning was very prescient.
There are two 1980s fleets which have recently been pressed into services well beyond what they were designed for, yet have managed them reliably. Without the 455s moving onto Reading services SWR would have been in severe trouble, and similarly in Wales the 150s stepped up to work routes up to and including Swansea to Manchester. Without these 40 year old BR warriors covering for the problems of their modern successors, both operators would have been facing near collapse of their timetables.
 

Goldfish62

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There are two 1980s fleets which have recently been pressed into services well beyond what they were designed for, yet have managed them reliably. Without the 455s moving onto Reading services SWR would have been in severe trouble, and similarly in Wales the 150s stepped up to work routes up to and including Swansea to Manchester. Without these 40 year old BR warriors covering for the problems of their modern successors, both operators would have been facing near collapse of their timetables.
Very true in the case of the 455s (although nowhere near the reliability of Desiros and Electrostars).

The TfW 150s are not in the same category. Severe corrosion and mechanical issues and reliability below the trains that are replacing them. There shouldn't still be any 150s still in service anywhere in the country. A case of needs must.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Very true in the case of the 455s (although nowhere near the reliability of Desiros and Electrostars).
Given SWR had them in run down mode probably not surprising but bet they will be better in the golden spanners this year. Of course they still out perform their expensive replacements.
The TfW 150s are not in the same category. Severe corrosion and mechanical issues and reliability below the trains that are replacing them. There shouldn't still be any 150s still in service anywhere in the country. A case of needs must.
Agree these are going to fall off a cliff edge in the not too distant future and leave the operators still using them in a precarious position. For all their faults should just knock another 50 CAF 196/7s to tied over the operators whilst DafT decide whether electrification is going to be progressed further or some permutation of Bi-Mode is the way forward for at least routes with electrification available over part of the route.
 

DelW

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The TfW 150s are not in the same category. Severe corrosion and mechanical issues and reliability below the trains that are replacing them. There shouldn't still be any 150s still in service anywhere in the country. A case of needs must.
Despite that, they've been almost the only fleet keeping the Marches line operational at times over the past year, although less so now I think. They've also had to cope with trying to keep to a timetable designed for much faster trains.

As a passenger they're far from my favourite trains (even less favourite if I'd encountered one on a route as long as that), but I am impressed by the way they've managed to keep on working, old tech and all. There again, maybe its because they're old and therefore simple tech that they can be kept going so long.

Back towards the topic, I suspect our informative correspondent Warren T Manager has a hand in keeping the 455s alive for as long as they may be needed. Though I doubt even he knows how long it'll be before the 458/4s begin to help out, let alone the 701s.
 

Goldfish62

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Not necessarily. As far as I am aware those expensive replacements have only had one failure in traffic so far. (admittedly the numerator of the "MTIN" ratio is also quite small)
Indeed. The 707s when they were in squadron service with SWR far out stripped the 455s in terms of performance, as indeed do the 450s and 444s. The 458s remain SWR's most unreliable train.
 

Snow1964

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Back towards the topic, I suspect our informative correspondent Warren T Manager has a hand in keeping the 455s alive for as long as they may be needed. Though I doubt even he knows how long it'll be before the 458/4s begin to help out, let alone the 701s.
I am guessing that 455s will gradually reach mileage limits where expensive overhauls are needed. At which point their numbers will diminish further (aren't 455s down to about 80 of 91 as usuable).

Probably lot cheaper to use the 458/4s than sanction expensive work on 455s until the 701s finally appear in regular service (whenever that may be).

The big question is will there simply be 458/4s taking over the existing 458 diagrams, shortening trains from 10car to 8car over next few months as more are converted, or will some allow more 455s to be taken out of service.
 

Goldfish62

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I am guessing that 455s will gradually reach mileage limits where expensive overhauls are needed. At which point their numbers will diminish further (aren't 455s down to about 80 of 91 as usuable).

Probably lot cheaper to use the 458/4s than sanction expensive work on 455s until the 701s finally appear in regular service (whenever that may be).

The big question is will there simply be 458/4s taking over the existing 458 diagrams, shortening trains from 10car to 8car over next few months as more are converted, or will some allow more 455s to be taken out of service.
Of course, assuming that unit 533 can be reactivated SWR will still have 8 458/5 units once the conversion programme is complete. That I guess would allow still allow 3 10 car diagrams.

SWR obviously have a better idea than any of us where they can be most effectively used.

I read either here or on another thread that, bizarrely, 458/4s can't be used on Reading services so that's yet another constraint to add into the mix.

I think the only certain thing is that as the year progresses capacity on the SWR network will be reduced, which is a bit depressing given that other TOCs are adding capacity.
 

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