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SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

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Kite159

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Greater Anglia guards have thankfully already cracked that argument. Guaranteed second person on all trains that have them now until the end of the franchise in 2025.

Considering the large number of rural stations which lack any sort of ticket buying facilities (although I did note a TVM has popped up at Lingwood)*, the GA deal is good.

(*although that doesn't stop a service being run as DOO as there are a couple Chiltern stations which lack buying facilities & IIRC some on the Braintree/Southminster branches)
 
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dk1

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It looks like it is something similar to the Greater Anglia deal that SWR might go for too, with a second person on all trains, but not necessarily operating the doors everywhere. Whether ASLEF on SWR would sign up for operating the doors is another question.

Well that's another hurdle to get over too on GA. All guards are to retain their competency as part of the deal so no great shakes if if those talks fail to come to anything.
 

dk1

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Considering the large number of rural stations which lack any sort of ticket buying facilities (although I did note a TVM has popped up at Lingwood)*, the GA deal is good.

(*although that doesn't stop a service being run as DOO as there are a couple Chiltern stations which lack buying facilities & IIRC some on the Braintree/Southminster branches)

Stations such as Lingwood are on previously non-DOO routes as apposed to Braintree/Southminster so would be treated very differently in the agreement with the RMT. New ticket machines are being rolled out as we type at many local stations as part of the franchise commitment.
 

pompeyfan

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I believe SWR are saying ALL trains will run with a 2nd (safety critical trained) person, providing the RMT and SWR can find a way to keep passengers moving during times of disruption. It should be noted though that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
 

theironroad

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I believe SWR are saying ALL trains will run with a 2nd (safety critical trained) person, providing the RMT and SWR can find a way to keep passengers moving during times of disruption. It should be noted though that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

...and what is that "way"?
 

Carlisle

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...and what is that "way"?
I can’t really envisage the RMT currently agreeing to any train running without a second staff member under any circumstance, (outside an already established DOO area, which SWR don’t have anyway) so either SWR plan to concede that , or stand firm until the next ballot, and go forward from there.
 
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infobleep

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It was a bit of a labour. Happy to feed back any bits that need changing (K3 to Surbiton has been added). And yes - all kept for next weekend...
Thanks for doing that. It is appricated. I may not need it myself but I know others will. Aside from that though, I just don't like seeing inaccurate information online or information that is hard to find or decipher.
For example telling people Berrylands station is closed when trains are stopping there one Saturday and then repeating the same thing the following weekend

I do appricate one doesn't always have time to correct things though.
 

Dougal2345

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What's the situation for this coming Saturday? I saw the warning poster is still up in Bournemouth.
 

theironroad

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What's the situation for this coming Saturday? I saw the warning poster is still up in Bournemouth.

Remaining dates, including this Saturday, are still strike dates:

RMT strike action is planned on the following dates:

• 0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 18 August 2018
• 0001 Hours on Friday 31 August 2018 and 2359 Hours on Saturday 1 September 2018
 

Carlisle

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You may or may not (be old enough to) recall that in the early 1980s the government was forced to give way over proposed coal mime closures after the National Union of Mineworkers threatened to strike. The country would have run out of coal in about six weeks. But when the miners went on strike in 1984-85 substantial stockpiles of coal had been built up. The situation on the railways is different, of course, but we could consider the possibility that the government realises that the present disputes over a second person on a train are not getting anywhere, and it's better to give up the struggle for the time being, especially as Brexit is a much bigger issue and will continue to present challenges after next March. However, they might draw up plans to approach the matter in different ways in future. For example, there might be generally lower fares per mile on routes than were DOO.

This is entirely speculative: I have no inside information, and I'm just thinking about possible pragmatic approaches.
Yes I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that turns out to be a. pretty accurate assessment of where the governments current thinking and strategy on all this is leaning towards right now .

I only vaguely remember the first miners strike you mention, but do clearly recall the railway celebrating the extra business gained with the switching of coal stocks to power stations, and of course the subsequent lengthy NUM strike, always surprising that (to my knowledge anyway) strikes in the electricity supply industry appear almost unheard of nowadays, and have done for many years compared to my youth, and wonder if it’s mostly down to just more grown up industrial relations on both sides or just the demise of the state monopoly making any effective action that might threaten power cuts etc, now much more difficult .
 
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pompeyfan

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It would appear that sadly the talks haven’t gone as well as many hoped;

Strikes by @RMTunion members on @SW_Help on September 2, September 8 and September 15.
 

Monty

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Disappointing, especially since the initial feedback I had been getting that the talks had been positive.
 

Monty

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What’s the reason for striking on weekends rather than a weekday?

I think the aim is to cause as much disruption as possible to managers who act as contingency guards, normally they would be working Monday to Friday. So they are forced to work additional days.
 

infobleep

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Even before the talks had started this week, SWR Twitter Feed was saying RTM had advised SWR of their intention to strike on the 18 August. It didn't make any mention of the talks due to start.
 

Kite159

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Why do I picture "making a mockery of the talks" as "SWR won't collapse to all our demands", or "The person on the SWR asked to use the toilet, showing utter disrespect to our hard working team".

If only those talks were allowed to be shown on the web so neither side can cloud the water with misleading statements.

I feel sorry for the Swanage Railway, having to apologise for the cancellation of the Corfe Castle services which brought folk to them.
 

Tim456

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I think the aim is to cause as much disruption as possible to managers who act as contingency guards, normally they would be working Monday to Friday. So they are forced to work additional days.
Thanks. Yes I can see that being an effective reason whilst not upsetting those who rely on the train to get to work.
 

Kite159

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Thanks. Yes I can see that being an effective reason whilst not upsetting those who rely on the train to get to work.

Other than the folk who work on Saturdays? Where they might not be as many commuters there would be some folk who rely on the train to get to work at weekends
 

Three-Nine

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Edit: ah, please disregard, missed previous post mentioning the additional strike dates. However, please note that the 15th September also coincides with the start of an engineering work line closure between Crewkerne and Exeter on the West of England line.
 

387star

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Link https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-confirms-new-strike-dates-on-south-western-railway/

15 August 2018

RMT Press Office:

RMT confirms new strike dates on South Western Railway as company make a mockery of talks process.

RAIL UNION RMT has confirmed a new round of strike action on South Western Railway after the company made a mockery of agreed talks and sabotaged a process that could have reached agreement.


RMT has accused the company of sending in a negotiating team with no authority and no support from their paymasters in Hong Kong and Aberdeen to reach a settlement.


As a result serious union proposals addressing disruption of service have been kicked back in our face today with RMT accusing those responsible for stringing the negotiating team along and having no intention of reaching agreement.


Company chief Andy Mellors to date has demonstrated disregard for all ACAS talks and instead chooses to spend his time on publicity stunts handing out ice lollies and sweets to passengers while services continue to lurch from crisis to crisis.


Because of the companies attitude RMT has confirmed the following new strike dates in the guards’ safety dispute:


RMT members will strike as follows by not booking on for any shifts between;

0001 Hours and 2359 hours on Sunday 2nd September

0001 Hours and 2359 hours on Saturday 8th September

0001 Hours and 2359 hours on Saturday 15th September


RMT general secretary Mick Cash said;


“RMT is angry and frustrated that the company’s cavalier and contemptuous approach to talks leaves us no option but to confirm additional strike dates. We know that passengers will share that anger.


“Today SWR have benefitted from a fares windfall that will pump up their profits. They have plenty of money to employ guards on their trains and to sign off the guard guarantee the union has achieved elsewhere.


“South Western Railway seem to think they can treat the union and their staff with utter contempt. They need to change that attitude, get serious and put a team in place that can talk with us with authority on the safety, security and access issues at the heart of this dispute.”

Ends.
 
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Wychwood93

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15 August 2018

RMT Press Office:

RMT confirms new strike dates on South Western Railway as company make a mockery of talks process.

RAIL UNION RMT has confirmed a new round of strike action on South Western Railway after the company made a mockery of agreed talks and sabotaged a process that could have reached agreement.


RMT has accused the company of sending in a negotiating team with no authority and no support from their paymasters in Hong Kong and Aberdeen to reach a settlement.


As a result serious union proposals addressing disruption of service have been kicked back in our face today with RMT accusing those responsible for stringing the negotiating team along and having no intention of reaching agreement.


Company chief Andy Mellors to date has demonstrated disregard for all ACAS talks and instead chooses to spend his time on publicity stunts handing out ice lollies and sweets to passengers while services continue to lurch from crisis to crisis.


Because of the companies attitude RMT has confirmed the following new strike dates in the guards’ safety dispute:


RMT members will strike as follows by not booking on for any shifts between;

0001 Hours and 2359 hours on Sunday 2nd September

0001 Hours and 2359 hours on Saturday 8th September

0001 Hours and 2359 hours on Saturday 15th September


RMT general secretary Mick Cash said;


“RMT is angry and frustrated that the company’s cavalier and contemptuous approach to talks leaves us no option but to confirm additional strike dates. We know that passengers will share that anger.


“Today SWR have benefitted from a fares windfall that will pump up their profits. They have plenty of money to employ guards on their trains and to sign off the guard guarantee the union has achieved elsewhere.


“South Western Railway seem to think they can treat the union and their staff with utter contempt. They need to change that attitude, get serious and put a team in place that can talk with us with authority on the safety, security and access issues at the heart of this dispute.”

Ends.
Really? Very 60's/70's from Mr Cash. As has been said many times before, there is no real chance of services to Weymouth, Portsmouth or Exeter not having a guard/second person. Suburban lines would make sense - although a second person is always useful. I have travelled on Southern a few times this year and find the 'new' (non-guard) system fine - polite and helpful.
 

fairysdad

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“RMT is angry and frustrated that the company’s cavalier and contemptuous approach to talks leaves us no option but to confirm additional strike dates. We know that passengers will share that anger.
I think the anger from passengers is rapidly being aimed towards the RMT and the guards themselves rather than towards SWR. I've said this before - if the RMT want to get the public behind them, they need to come out and say, in public and in laymans terms, what it is that the issue is. They need to say what it is that SWR are saying and offering, and why the RMT doesn't want it. They need to explain consicely but with detail what it is that Guards do, and what would happen if SWR had their way. Otherwise, all the general public and SWR's passengers are hearing is that their Guards are on strike again which means their trains will be cancelled again and want to know why their fares are going up again without anything to show for it. I think the RMT are misreading the public's opinion of what is going on at the moment...
 

Robertj21a

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I think the anger from passengers is rapidly being aimed towards the RMT and the guards themselves rather than towards SWR. I've said this before - if the RMT want to get the public behind them, they need to come out and say, in public and in laymans terms, what it is that the issue is. They need to say what it is that SWR are saying and offering, and why the RMT doesn't want it. They need to explain consicely but with detail what it is that Guards do, and what would happen if SWR had their way. Otherwise, all the general public and SWR's passengers are hearing is that their Guards are on strike again which means their trains will be cancelled again and want to know why their fares are going up again without anything to show for it. I think the RMT are misreading the public's opinion of what is going on at the moment...


I quite agree - but only get ranted at for saying anything of the sort !!

:E
 

Goldfish62

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I think the aim is to cause as much disruption as possible to managers who act as contingency guards, normally they would be working Monday to Friday. So they are forced to work additional days.
Good business for bus operators providing replacement services given that drivers will be back from summer hols.
 

3141

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I quite agree - but only get ranted at for saying anything of the sort !!

:E

I also agree - in fact, when I read the RMT press release above I thought it sounded like a satirical show making fun of way-out union-speak. Interesting that they accuse SWR of sending a negotiating team with no authority, as it's similar to what they said about recent talks with Northern, and suggests that what they mean by "authority" is someone who'll accept everything they demand.
 

footprints

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So, the RMT are going to cost their members a fortune in lost wages with yer more pointless strike action immediately before a third ballot is required? SWR must barely be able to believe their luck at the stupidity of Cash and co.
 

TEW

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Always a laugh reading some of the posts on this thread, always completely at odds with what is going on on the ground.
 

Matt Taylor

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So, the RMT are going to cost their members a fortune in lost wages with yer more pointless strike action immediately before a third ballot is required? SWR must barely be able to believe their luck at the stupidity of Cash and co.

Nobody is forced to go on strike.

The recurring message that is coming across is that the RMT is having meetings with metaphorical monkeys rather than organ grinders. I don't know what the truth is but more openness from both sides would be welcomed.
 

HH

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The recurring message that is coming across is that the RMT is having meetings with metaphorical monkeys rather than organ grinders. I don't know what the truth is but more openness from both sides would be welcomed.
Decisions such as this usually have to be ratified at least at board level, if not at the holding company board. In this case there are two holding companies. It's possible that has to led to the negotiating team being given a shorter leash than normal, but that still shouldn't prevent deals being reached. If RMT spring new demands or suggestions in the meeting then they will need to be referred back, thus frustrating a handy negotiating tactic; maybe this is what they're complaining about...
 

embers25

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Decisions such as this usually have to be ratified at least at board level, if not at the holding company board. In this case there are two holding companies. It's possible that has to led to the negotiating team being given a shorter leash than normal, but that still shouldn't prevent deals being reached. If RMT spring new demands or suggestions in the meeting then they will need to be referred back, thus frustrating a handy negotiating tactic; maybe this is what they're complaining about...
I'd agree with you except for the language continually used by Cash and Co which is more about taking a dig at the foreign ownership of the TOC's than anything else. I also liked the "Today SWR have benefitted from a fares windfall that will pump up their profits." as given RMT staff wages are also linked to the same measure, RMT members will also benefit from the same windfall and yet this is not mentioned anywhere! The guard on my train home today did make a good point though during his rant to a customer about the strikes, that Grayling making his stupid comments is definitely not helping to weaken the resolve of staff or encourage any faith right now and certainly Grayling is not making negotiations any easier. If you are going to be firm and fight the unions you at least need a reasoned argument the public can get behind. Laying out the huge flaws in the RMT arguments and approach would be a good start but Grayling is too busy sinking to the RMT's gutter politics level.

Also passengers are not angry with SWR over their dispute with the RMT (they are angry with the RMT), they are angry with SWR over their complete incompetence when it comes to running a railway.
 
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