SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

[Emmsie]

You do have keep in mind, however, that most of these people endured a sustained hate campaign from their own employer, which isn't great for motivation...

I don't consider that an excuse for not doing your job properly, there is always the option to quit. Strike by all means if you're not happy with the situation but if you are at work do the job properly.

 

[BestWestern]

Outside of the railway, do you faithfully hang on every word put out in press releases by the state and private companies to give you an accurate picture of the actual intentions of said organisations...? I appreciate everyone hates the RMT for knocking over their railway occasionally (this feat is very often easily achieved without RMT assistance) in this end game, but the blind faith shown in private companies and railway management by many people here is quite bemusing to me. They really don't respect you as much as you respect them!

There are a number of TOCs at the moment playing their cards very close to their chests, in a lesson learnt from Southern and Northern. This tactic has had mixed results across different TOCs in quelling potential industrial action, successfully in the likes of WMT, not so successfully in the case of SWR, but has been entirely successful in getting the public and particularly people here to believe a lack of publicly stated intention means that nothing is planned.

Is it blind faith, or just annoyance that somebody else seeking to safeguard their livelihood disrupts others? Or indeed, is it envy of those who have well paid employment and the means to actually stand up and fight for it? I do wonder at times.

The 'close to their chest' TOCs, with their empty words press releases and guarantees of absolutely nothing at all, stand out a mile away. There is one very simple statement which immediately quells this industrial action; "We have no plans to alter the role of the Guard". That's all that is needed. If that's the case, why not say so? The weasel words, however carefully written, only mean one thing, and we all know what it is.

 

[BestWestern]

I don't consider that an excuse for not doing your job properly, there is always the option to quit. Strike by all means if you're not happy with the situation but if you are at work do the job properly.

And your employer is there to employ you properly, are they not? They have a duty of care, I don't consider that to have been met when they are actively inciting hatred against their own employees and intentionally obstructing them attending work. GTR/Southern are an abhorrent outfit who are totally unfit to be responsible for employing anybody, their 'tactics' during the dispute were deeply troubling. It's rather telling that even the anti-union brigade were pretty universally disgusted at their antics.

Are you an ex Conductor who was employed by Southern during the height of the industrial action? Or did you join as an OBS later?

 

[Bookd]

My point about believing the company was not necessarily to say that they are telling the truth. The issue is that strikes are called to demand that the company says what they have said already (although with a tighter wording). There is no guarantee that if they used the RMT wording they would not go back on it, but eventually a deal will need to be accepted with a degree of trust.

 

[Emmsie]

And your employer is there to employ you properly, are they not? They have a duty of care, I don't consider that to have been met when they are actively inciting hatred against their own employees and intentionally obstructing them attending work. GTR/Southern are an abhorrent outfit who are totally unfit to be responsible for employing anybody, their 'tactics' during the dispute were deeply troubling. It's rather telling that even the anti-union brigade were pretty universally disgusted at their antics.

Are you an ex Conductor who was employed by Southern during the height of the industrial action? Or did you join as an OBS later?

We are not going to agree on this at all. I have no beef with the industrial action at all, I do however feel strongly that when you sign into work you do the job that you are paid to do properly.

 

[farleigh]

I was in a (non-railway) union for a while and I left because they seemed to be willing to use us. We had to lose a day's pay to fund what felt like political posturing. This happened a number of times and they never got us one pay increase or any better conditions. The head of the union was also on a six-figure salary which I found disgusting.

I left on principle. And it saved me a couple of hundred quid a year

 

[Emmsie]

I was in a (non-railway) union for a while and I left because they seemed to be willing to use us. We had to lose a day's pay to fund what felt like political posturing. This happened a number of times and they never got us one pay increase or any better conditions. The head of the union was also on a six-figure salary which I found disgusting.

I left on principle. And it saved me a couple of hundred quid a year

There can definitely be an element of that, Unions can be a positive but sometimes other agendas creep in and the staff suffer.

 

[XDM]

I left a while ago but never did an 11 hour shift, I think the longest shift was 10 hours 20 minutes but bear in mind this does include all breaks of which there are many. Its 1 Sunday in 3 but rostered 1 on 1 off 1 on 3 off. No disrespect but I will never have a job paying so much money for so little work again and quite frankly I was flabbergasted at how many didn't even bother doing the little expected of them.

Southern managed to recruit some brilliant OBS. They give superb announcements, much better than most 'guards', & check tickets pleasantly & efficiently. How disappointing to hear that you have left. I suspect you were one of the really good OB staff. A shame. I hope you explained to management why you left so they can improve things.

 

[Emmsie]

Southern managed to recruit some brilliant OBS. They give superb announcements, much better than most 'guards', & check tickets pleasantly & efficiently. How disappointing to hear that you have left. I suspect you were one of the really good OB staff. A shame. I hope you explained to management why you left so they can improve things.

They did hire some awful ones aswell but were able to get rid of them quite quickly whereas its really difficult to get rid of the guards. I owned my own business previously so found the transition from that to a company trying to claw its way out of the 70's quite difficult. There are difficulties at Southern but I'm not sure that they are much different to any other TOC as some of it is historical. I like to think I was one of the good ones and was certainly told that by a couple of conductors which was nice. Most of the staff do a really good job but like anywhere, there are always a few bad pennies.

 

[pemma]

RMT Buzzword Bingo press release available here: https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-confirms-industrial-action-on-south-western-railway160318/

Clowns.

If they have evidence of SWR bullying guards then they will be in the process of setting up employment tribunals for the guards affected, if they aren't then presumably there's no evidence of bullying.

 

[pemma]

Outside of the railway, do you faithfully hang on every word put out in press releases by the state and private companies to give you an accurate picture of the actual intentions of said organisations...?

Outside the rail industry you can usually tell a lot from how happy staff appear and staff retention levels. A company based near me has one of those 'Best Places To Work' awards and gets positive mentions in both national and local press but it is very obvious that in reality that is not the case.

I rarely notice any former guards or ticket office staff working outside the rail industry. In one instance where a security guard told me he used to be a guard, he disappeared from his security guard role and the next time I noticed him was walking through a train with a ticket machine!

 

[Emmsie]

Outside the rail industry you can usually tell a lot from how happy staff appear and staff retention levels. A company based near me has one of those 'Best Places To Work' awards and gets positive mentions in both national and local press but it is very obvious that in reality that is not the case.

I rarely notice any former guards or ticket office staff working outside the rail industry. In one instance where a security guard told me he used to be a guard, he disappeared from his security guard role and the next time I noticed him was walking through a train with a ticket machine!

They say if you can stick out the first 6 months you'll never leave. The job is not without its difficulties, predominately fatigue and lone working on a train which can be a little worrying as a female but for a relatively low skilled job it's exceptionally well paid, you have a lot of autonomy and in my experience if you got on with it then you got left alone by management. I could go weeks without seeing any management at my base. There is also a great sense of camaraderie within the railway and lastly its hard to lose those 5 day weekends every 3rd week.

 

[BestWestern]

We are not going to agree on this at all. I have no beef with the industrial action at all, I do however feel strongly that when you sign into work you do the job that you are paid to do properly.

I agree of course that staff are paid to do a job and that job should be done to a decent standard. However, morale affects productivity, and whether you're running an army or a company that's a pretty basic principle. Sadly there are a minority of employers who manage to completely destroy that morale by whatever means, and unsurprisingly it isn't usually to their benefit.

 

[Bromley boy]

I will never have a job paying so much money for so little work again

Which does prompt the question, what made you leave?

Is it blind faith, or just annoyance that somebody else seeking to safeguard their livelihood disrupts others? Or indeed, is it envy of those who have well paid employment and the means to actually stand up and fight for it? I do wonder at times.

All of the above in varying degrees I would imagine.

 

[Emmsie]

Which does prompt the question, what made you leave?



All of the above in varying degrees I would imagine.

At the risk of being guilty of TMI I suffered periods of severe low mood shortly after starting which unsurprisingly I put down to the job and environment, I then started losing a lot of things and being generally forgetful and then on top of that I did a run of nights that made me ill and on my last night my mum went into hospital with sepsis and I couldn't visit so that pushed me over the edge and I handed in my notice. A few months later I discovered that I was in menopause, hence the periodic low mood, forgetfulness and inability to cope with much. Bit of a relief to be honest because I thought I had early onset dementia at one point. Now I'm on treatment and able to manage symptoms I'd happily go back. Menopause is a bitch, it sneaks up on you and affects far more than I realised. Pre menopause I thought it was hot flushes, no periods and dry whatsit, turns out there are over 60 symptoms. I would have managed fine if I had actually realised what the problem was but I left in April and it wasn't until September that I found out what was going on and then this January before I could get adequate treatment

 

[Bromley boy]

At the risk of being guilty of TMI I suffered periods of severe low mood shortly after starting which unsurprisingly I put down to the job and environment, I then started losing a lot of things and being generally forgetful and then on top of that I did a run of nights that made me ill and on my last night my mum went into hospital with sepsis and I couldn't visit so that pushed me over the edge and I handed in my notice. A few months later I discovered that I was in menopause, hence the periodic low mood, forgetfulness and inability to cope with much. Bit of a relief to be honest because I thought I had early onset dementia at one point. Now I'm on treatment and able to manage symptoms I'd happily go back. Menopause is a bitch, it sneaks up on you and affects far more than I realised. Pre menopause I thought it was hot flushes, no periods and dry whatsit, turns out there are over 60 symptoms. I would have managed fine if I had actually realised what the problem was but I left in April and it wasn't until September that I found out what was going on and then this January before I could get adequate treatment

Fair enough - sorry to hear that.

 

[Emmsie]

Fair enough - sorry to hear that.

The things us women have to bear. Like I said it was only a problem because I didn't realise, I certainly wouldn't want to wear a sticker on a hot train so I could open a window!

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Sorry but what is OBS it was introduced to the thread without explanation.

 

[Clip]

Sorry but what is OBS it was introduced to the thread without explanation.

On board supervisor.

 

[BestWestern]

Sorry but what is OBS it was introduced to the thread without explanation.

The deeply contentious 'On Board Supervisor', a role introduced by Southern to sideline Conductors as part of their push for DOO.

 

[Wombat]

Not verbatim, but in each guard and drivers base roster are duties known as 'as ordered' . These will have a notional signing on and off time , maybe 0600- 1400. The provisons in the agreement mean that when shown as ordered, those times can be moved and extended to cover a duty that may be uncovered due to a host of reasons, such as vacancy,sickness,training etc etc .

On SWR those 'AO' duties can be moved up to 2 hours and extended uptown 2 hours. So in normal circumstances, f you are 0600 in the base roster you could actual start at any time between 0400-0800 and the original 8 hour duty can be extended upto 9.5 hours for drivers and I think 11 hours for guards. You only know the amended start time 36 hours before hand. It is all about flexible rostering to allow the company to cover duties while having less staff.

It's a nightmare for planning stuff outside of work , as that original 1400 notional finish could actually be 1730 for a driver if moved and extended.

My understanding is that rmt guards and drivers will not move from their base rostered start and finish time during the industrial action, so it makes it hard to cover whole duties that need covering.

Very interesting, thank you for the clear explanation!

 

[LowLevel]

Southern managed to recruit some brilliant OBS. They give superb announcements, much better than most 'guards', & check tickets pleasantly & efficiently. How disappointing to hear that you have left. I suspect you were one of the really good OB staff. A shame. I hope you explained to management why you left so they can improve things.

I will accept that you have a point in that I've never worked anywhere where mediocrity is celebrated as much as the railway.

I love my job and go out of my way to do as much as possible, some of which might be considered above and beyond.

You generally hear far more about people trying to do as little as possible and boasting about it than people going the extra mile and I do think that's sad. That goes right across the board. Performance management is diabolical.

 

[Clip]

I will accept that you have a point in that I've never worked anywhere where mediocrity is celebrated as much as the railway.

I love my job and go out of my way to do as much as possible, some of which might be considered above and beyond.

You generally hear far more about people trying to do as little as possible and boasting about it than people going the extra mile and I do think that's sad. That goes right across the board. Performance management is diabolical.

Whilst im not saying this is the same for all grades but a lot of that stems from the management being scared of those who are the union reps making things worse by threatening industrial action before a performance management meeting has even happened so you can understand some not really wanting to go down that route so then its a viscous circle that is very hard to break and if a new manager comes in who tries to pull it altogether they go running to those above making up stuff and so on and so forth. Happened to me in the past but i was lucky enough to know that i had my managers trust and support.

 

[Emmsie]

I will accept that you have a point in that I've never worked anywhere where mediocrity is celebrated as much as the railway.

I love my job and go out of my way to do as much as possible, some of which might be considered above and beyond.

You generally hear far more about people trying to do as little as possible and boasting about it than people going the extra mile and I do think that's sad. That goes right across the board. Performance management is diabolical.

Agree with all of this. People that go above tend to just get on with it without running to management for a pat on the back. I used to carry a couple of bin bags with me to clear food packaging and other rubbish particularly on the late evening trains, being an ex waitress dirty tables drive me potty. I was asked by more than 1 other staff member not to do that as management would start to expect everyone to do the same.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I will accept that you have a point in that I've never worked anywhere where mediocrity is celebrated as much as the railway.

Was there really any need for that comment? Some of us do far more than the minimum required regardless of whether it's noticed or not.

 

[LowLevel]

Was there really any need for that comment? Some of us do far more than the minimum required regardless of whether it's noticed or not.

Do you not reckon it's true? I've been a guard for a while now.

The amount of times I've handed over trains to a grin with 'don't worry about it mate, I'm not going down it anyway' or heard disparaging comments in the mess room about people who do try hard making others look bad is somewhat depressing.

It is a fact that being seen to try too hard on the railway is 'uncool'. I've known drivers shout at guards (and vice versa) for agreeing to do overtime to avoid a cancellation for not getting them out of their job and so on.

Unless you're really, really good and have the personality to hold your own sticking your head above the parapet can be intimidating and God forbid you appear on a '.... of the month' or similar board.

You're quite entitled to disagree of course but I'm a committed union man as well as a committed employee and I still find it depressing at times.

 

[bnm]

LOL ! If it were not for Signallers over-seeing A.R.S you'd be going all over the place !

Is this known as ARS(e) covering?

 

[theironroad]

Agree with all of this. People that go above tend to just get on with it without running to management for a pat on the back. I used to carry a couple of bin bags with me to clear food packaging and other rubbish particularly on the late evening trains, being an ex waitress dirty tables drive me potty. I was asked by more than 1 other staff member not to do that as management would start to expect everyone to do the same.

...and also reduces the number of cleaners that the TOC employ or hire from an agency, especially cleaners whose main role is on train during the day when in service.

 

[LowLevel]

...and also reduces the number of cleaners that the TOC employ or hire from an agency, especially cleaners whose main role is on train during the day when in service.

Nah. I don't know about elsewhere but our 'Conductors Restructuring Initiative' document has always had basic tidying of tables and seats in it going back at least 20 years.

We don't have the kit to wipe tables down and clear up spillages and absolutely definitely don't have the kit to service the toilets and cleaning under and down the side of seats is also excluded.

We've actually had an increase in on train cleaners not a reduction.

I can't stand a filthy train, it's embarrassing to just walk past piles of junk as if it's not there.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not necessarily, but lower management will usually unofficially advise it. They do make you aware that RMT/Aslef isn’t the only option though. There is another ‘Micky mouse’ Union that looks after both but isn’t officially recognised anywhere.

Anyone has the right to join any union regardless of whether or not it is recognised, and to be afforded representation from that union for personal cases.