SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

[farleigh]

Yes protection is a large part of it. If I drag someone off a platform due to the crap, grainy DOO monitors I’m given to work with, I’ll need some backing. Just as if I break a leg in 2 places when some rotten wooden stairs collapse beneath me in badly lit sidings (happened recently to a driver at my place).

Another highlight was waking out to prep a train at 0430 during the recent snow. Still dark, the walkway hadn’t been gritted, was bloody slippery and inches from a juice rail. The TOC values it’s staff doesn’t it. What a joke.

The union is also the accepted method to feed issues back to the employer.

Thanks - sounds a no-brainer

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks - sounds a no-brainer

A lot of unions are either bonkers (RMT) or useless (TSSA) but it always pays to be in one.

Even at a non-operational level it’s important to have the option of someone to fight your corner if something happens.

I give the RMT a lot of (justified) stick, but if I became a guard tomorrow I’d be joining them. No question.

 

[Bromley boy]

The comments are in reaction to a post stating that one might actively refuse to pick up litter out of a point of principle. Nobody is suggesting anyone go out of their way to do this.

On the contrary. This part of the discussion was prompted by someone claiming to have worked as an OBS (but has now quit) stating she brings bin bags into work off her own back to clear up litter, and berating those who don’t as defending slovenliness.

There’s a roughly equal balance of comments on this forum both in favour of and against rail staff. There are a lot of comments I’ve seen from rail staff which are quite blatantly anti-passenger and misanthropic.

I find it amusing to see posts like this from time to time, either from passengers or staff, claiming victimhood.

We railstaff are always victims, surely you realise that by now.

 

[Carlisle]

As someone relatively new to the railway who worked in various white collar professional roles before joining, and indeed was vehmently anti-union in my former life (my ignorance)...

I’m not some ‘70s relic, but I can honestly say you’d have to be positively certifiable to work in an operational role on the railway and not belong to a union. It’s totally different to most other industries.

I can understand where your coming from.I joined BR in the 80s, when management culture seemed reasonably willing to overlook the less serious operational incidents or just issue a warning and say carry on.I appreciate that’s totally changed now, and what would have been a fairly cosy chat with a boss would now likley be an official enquiry

 

[Bromley boy]

I can understand where your coming from as when I joined BR in the 80s, the management culture seemed mostly to be willing to more or less overlook many operational incidents or just issue a warning and carry on .I appreciate that’s totally changed now, and what would have been a fairly cosy chat with the boss would now likley be an official enquiry

Operational incidents are now a major issue, as they should be of course. No doubt that’s very different to how things were in the 80s.

But perhaps its gone too far the other way.

I lost a very close relative recently. The day he died, I phoned up work to say I won’t be coming in today. I lost a day’s pay - circa £300 gross - for my trouble. I’m fortunate in that I won’t really miss it - but it still cheeses me off in a big way.

I know someone else who had similar news, came into work and had a spad. The TOC’s reply was “you should have told us”.

You’re basically damned either way.

 

[alastair]

Operational incidents are now a major issue, as they should be of course. No doubt that’s very different to how things were in the 80s.

But perhaps its gone too far the other way.

I lost a very close relative recently. The day he died, I phoned up work to say I won’t be coming in today. I lost a day’s pay - circa £300 gross - for my trouble. I’m fortunate in that I won’t really miss it - but it still cheeses me off in a big way.

I know someone else who had similar news, came into work and had a spad. The TOC’s reply was “you should have told us”.

You’re basically damned either way.

That sounds really harsh. Even my former employer, which was pretty tight-fisted in most ways, had a policy on paid "compassionate leave" (3 days if I remember). Quite surprised that your TOC does not have similiar, particularly as many posters on here have mentioned generally good employment terms on the railway.

 

[theironroad]

That sounds really harsh. Even my former employer, which was pretty tight-fisted in most ways, had a policy on paid "compassionate leave" (3 days if I remember). Quite surprised that your TOC does not have similiar, particularly as many posters on here have mentioned generally good employment terms on the railway.

I think most tocs do, but it has to be an immediate relative , pretty much spouse, parent or child , possibly siblings.

I'm not sure what Bromley's scenario was but often what may be a close relative in that person's life isn't recognised by the railway.

 

[Bromley boy]

That sounds really harsh. Even my former employer, which was pretty tight-fisted in most ways, had a policy on paid "compassionate leave" (3 days if I remember). Quite surprised that your TOC does not have similiar, particularly as many posters on here have mentioned generally good employment terms on the railway.

I think most tocs do, but it has to be an immediate relative , pretty much spouse, parent or child , possibly siblings.

I'm not sure what Bromley's scenario was but often what may be a close relative in that person's life isn't recognised by the railway.

My grandfather passed away - I was very close to him and absolutely devastated when I heard the news. Surprisingly I didn’t feel like driving trains around on the day he died.

Apparently not a close enough relative. Cheers for that, you absolute motherf*ckers. I was given paid leave for the funeral, not for the day he died. Big of them.

Another nail in the coffin of my TOC - I’ll be taking some dodgy sick days and swanning off to another employer for (a lot) more money just as soon as I can.

 

[theironroad]

My grandfather passed away - I was very close to him and absolutely devastated when I heard the news. Surprisingly I didn’t feel like driving trains around on the day he died.

Apparently not a close enough relative. Cheers for that, you absolute motherf*ckers. I was given paid leave for the funeral, not for the day he died. Big of them.

Another nail in the coffin of my TOC - I’ll be taking some dodgy sick days and swanning off to another employer for (a lot) more money just as soon as I can.

Sorry to hear about your grandfather. It seems stuff like this just encourages people to go sick at the outset.

 

[ComUtoR]

Friend of mine died at 29. I was refused time off, took 2 days leave for the funeral. Aunt died, told she wasn't a close relative and I had my record pulled stating that I took time off for said friend. No time off, leave declined.

As theironroad mentioned. There is a defined list for 'close' relatives. Those are approved for time off.

 

[farleigh]

Poor management IMHO.

What they gain by refusing leave is a days pay (which they subsequently lose to sickies). What they lose cannot be bought - a happy and loyal member of staff who feels that they are well regarded by 'management'. And that does not even bring to bear the compassionate side that we all owe each other when we work together. I would always agree to leave unless somebody was plainly taking the micturate.

 

[Bromley boy]

Friend of mine died at 29. I was refused time off, took 2 days leave for the funeral. Aunt died, told she wasn't a close relative and I had my record pulled stating that I took time off for said friend. No time off, leave declined.

As theironroad mentioned. There is a defined list for 'close' relatives. Those are approved for time off.

Disgusting.

Time for you to move on. +rail, GTR or similar. Do it, do it, do it.

 

[Dave1987]

Poor management IMHO.

What they gain by refusing leave is a days pay (which they subsequently lose to sickies). What they lose cannot be bought - a happy and loyal member of staff who feels that they are well regarded by 'management'. And that does not even bring to bear the compassionate side that we all owe each other when we work together. I would always agree to leave unless somebody was plainly taking the micturate.

I quite agree. But you can start to understand why there is such a massive disconnect between management and staff, and why their is no trust.

 

[Bromley boy]

Poor management IMHO.

What they gain by refusing leave is a days pay (which they subsequently lose to sickies). What they lose cannot be bought - a happy and loyal member of staff who feels that they are well regarded by 'management'. And that does not even bring to bear the compassionate side that we all owe each other when we work together. I would always agree to leave unless somebody was plainly taking the micturate.

You’ve hit the nail squatrely on the head there.

The management culture on the railway is simply terrible. It starts from the premise that people must be taking the p*ss and treats them accordingly. It is unbelievably petty - docking you pay if your car breaks down and you’re late for work, for example. If they can find any excuse to dock you pay they will do.

As you have noted it completely destroys any feeling of goodwill towards the TOC. Most staff actively want the TOC to lose the franchise.

The negative culture is the worst aspect of the railway. The good thing is that if you keep your nose clean you see very little of management.

 

[Robertj21a]

You’ve hit the nail squatrely on the head there.

The management culture on the railway is simply terrible. It starts from the premise that people must be taking the p*ss and treats them accordingly. It is unbelievably petty - docking you pay if your car breaks down and you’re late for work, for example. If they can find any excuse to dock you pay they will do.

As you have noted it completely destroys any feeling of goodwill towards the TOC. Most staff actively want the TOC to lose the franchise.

The negative culture is the worst aspect of the railway. The good thing is that if you keep your nose clean you see very little of management.

Surely, if you see very little of management 'if you keep your nose clean' it suggests that management is paying attention to that minority of rail staff who do not 'keep their nose clean' ? Isn't that a good thing that they should be applauded for ?

When you say that 'Most staff actively want the TOC to lose the franchise', can you clarify which TOC you are talking about, or are you assuming it's every TOC across the country ?

 

[farleigh]

Surely, if you see very little of management 'if you keep your nose clean' it suggests that management is paying attention to that minority of rail staff who do not 'keep their nose clean' ? Isn't that a good thing that they should be applauded for ?

When you say that 'Most staff actively want the TOC to lose the franchise', can you clarify which TOC you are talking about, or are you assuming it's every TOC across the country ?

Not wanting to speak for Bromley Boy but if my employer docked my pay in that manner then I would not wish them well.

 

[Bromley boy]

Surely, if you see very little of management 'if you keep your nose clean' it suggests that management is paying attention to that minority of rail staff who do not 'keep their nose clean' ? Isn't that a good thing that they should be applauded for ?

Not seeing management is generally a good thing, yes, but the culture makes itself known whenever you need to take time off at short notice, if you’re late for work for any reason etc.

Of course the vast majority of staff are conscientious but inevitably there are occasions when life happens, relatives die or are ill, cars break down etc. leading to people being late or needing to take time off and the TOC’s first reaction is to dock pay and treat employees with suspicion.

The overall impression you quickly form is that the TOC doesn’t give a stuff about the welfare of its staff and just wants you at work come hell or high water.

When you say that 'Most staff actively want the TOC to lose the franchise', can you clarify which TOC you are talking about, or are you assuming it's every TOC across the country ?

I should have said my (commuter) TOC as clearly I cannot speak for them all, but I get the impression from this forum that it’s a recurring theme throughout the industry, at least in commuter land.

I gather things may be better at intercity TOC’s, and I’ve heard positive things about Crossrail, Eurostar and Arriva Rail London (my TOC has lost drivers to all of the above).

 

[Matt Taylor]

Do you not reckon it's true? I've been a guard for a while now.

The amount of times I've handed over trains to a grin with 'don't worry about it mate, I'm not going down it anyway' or heard disparaging comments in the mess room about people who do try hard making others look bad is somewhat depressing.

It is a fact that being seen to try too hard on the railway is 'uncool'. I've known drivers shout at guards (and vice versa) for agreeing to do overtime to avoid a cancellation for not getting them out of their job and so on.

Unless you're really, really good and have the personality to hold your own sticking your head above the parapet can be intimidating and God forbid you appear on a '.... of the month' or similar board.

You're quite entitled to disagree of course but I'm a committed union man as well as a committed employee and I still find it depressing at times.

I don't think it's a case of things being black and white, generally handovers are pretty good but there are times when the departing guard just walks away without telling me anything or says everything is ok and then you find a couple of toilets not working or a door out of use. As far as mess room talk is concerned I believe there's a lot of bravado going on, people like to be seen as one of the 'cool kids' but in reality they're probably doing their job very well when they're out there on the train without colleagues watching!

 

[XDM]

You’ve hit the nail squatrely on the head there.

The management culture on the railway is simply terrible. It starts from the premise that people must be taking the p*ss and treats them accordingly. It is unbelievably petty - docking you pay if your car breaks down and you’re late for work, for example. If they can find any excuse to dock you pay they will do.

But a few posts back at 164, you, Bromley Boy, say
"I will be taking some dodgy sick days".
You say it in black & white! No wonder management start from the premise people must be taking the p*ss. In fact you are taking the p*ss out of our customers,the public & the taxpayer who pays a third of your wages.

 

[Bromley boy]

But a few posts back at 164, you, Bromley Boy, say
"I will be taking some dodgy sick days".
You say it in black & white! No wonder management start from the premise people must be taking the p*ss. In fact you are taking the p*ss out of our customers,the public & the taxpayer who pays a third of your wages.

From the poor structure and low grammatical quality of your postings I gather you’re some kind of low grade, frustrated, junior, railway middle manager. Jealous of operational grades who no doubt trouser more than you do. As they should, they’re real people doing real jobs.

When management starts from the premise of assuming employees are Micky takers, employees will follow suit. Something you don’t seem to grasp.

As for professionalism, I’ve worked in rarefied, professional circles someone like you couldn’t even begin to imagine, I can assure you. I’m satisfied that I take a professional approach to my role.

Precisely zero advice required from the likes of you on that front, ta.

EDIT: as a railway manager, the taxpayer also pays your wages. I drive 1,000+ taxpayers at a time to work.

What’s your value-add, exactly?

 

[farleigh]

I detect some friction there

 

[Bromley boy]

I detect some friction there

Just a tad.

Sadly there are lots of jealous, bitter posters on here who will never, ever earn as much as a train driver earns because they lack the aptitude and wherewithal to achieve that role, or any other job paying a £50k+ salary.

Some of whom are even unemployed,
yet come on here to berate us railstaff for being overpaid, while our taxes pay for their benefits.

Ironic that!

 

[Wombat]

About the car-breakdown thing, the places I've worked have had a couple of ways of dealing with it:

1) In most cases, people are paid a fixed salary and it's a "swings and roundabouts" situation. On one day I might need a member of my team to work a couple of hours extra, for which they won't get paid extra. On the next, they may be a couple of hours late because their car broke down but they'll get paid as normal. This strikes me as a reasonable and grown-up approach, and it's incumbent upon both sides not to take the piss. In my experience it works well.

2) Much more rarely, if someone does a couple of hours overtime they'll get paid for the extra two hours. If they're two hours late the next day because their car breaks down, they won't get paid for the two hours. I suppose it's fair, but it strikes me as a bit too nickle-and-dime (not to mention the bureaucracy).

I've never worked for a company which pays by the hour for overtime but forgives late attendance, or indeed vice versa. I suppose the former is the optimal scenario for the employee and the latter is the worst, with the two examples I've experienced being somewhere in the middle.

I have no idea how it works on the railway. If you do an extra couple of hours on your shift, do you get paid for it? I'd certainly hope so, if you're docked in the car breakdown scenario.

 

[farleigh]

It depends what you want from your employees. The few quid saved is nothing compared to the value of an employee who feels you are on their side. If they subsequently take the mickey, by all means come down on them but in my view all staff should be highly valued unless they show themselves to be deliberately taking the mick

 

[AlterEgo]

But a few posts back at 164, you, Bromley Boy, say
"I will be taking some dodgy sick days".
You say it in black & white! No wonder management start from the premise people must be taking the p*ss. In fact you are taking the p*ss out of our customers,the public & the taxpayer who pays a third of your wages.

You should be very careful with what you post, because you are much less anonymous on here than you think you are.

 

[Bromley boy]

You should be very careful with what you post, because you are much less anonymous on here than you think you are.

You know him?

Let me guess. Some sad schmo with nothing better to do than berate people’s earnings, in a job he’s never even done.

PM me if necessary, I’m intrigued to hear.

 

[pompeyfan]

You know him?

Let me guess. Some sad schmo with nothing better to do than berate people’s earnings, in a job he’s never even done.

PM me if necessary, I’m intrigued to hear.

Might also explain their vendetta against guards, who apparently should embrace the OBS role with open arms and be greatful about the obvious deskilling that comes with it, maybe that way they might be able to earn a guards wage without the required aptitude!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

another RMT announcement

20th March ‎2018

FROM RMT PRESS OFFICE
IMMEDIATE

RMT secures renewed mandates for action in ballots on Greater Anglia and South Western Railway enforced by the Tory anti-union laws

RAIL UNION RMT has confirmed today that it has secured overwhelming votes to continue with action in the rail safety disputes on Greater Anglia and South Western Railway after being forced to renew the mandates with both employers under the terms of the new wave of Tory anti-union laws.

On Greater Anglia the strike vote was over 80% yes on a turn-out of over 80% and on South Western Railway the turn-out was 63% with a yes vote of 73%.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said:

“RMT has been forced under the latest wave of Tory anti-union laws to re-ballot in the rail safety disputes on both Greater Anglia and South Western Railway under the six month rule and once again our members at both companies have stood united and solid and have renewed the mandate to carry on the fight to put public safety before private profit.

“Both Greater Anglia and South Western Railway have opted to play for time over the past six months rather than acting responsibly and getting round the table with the union to work out a solution to these separate disputes that puts safety and the guard guarantee centre stage. That is the package we have successfully negotiated in both Wales and Scotland and it defies belief that we are being denied the same positive outcome on these English franchises.

“Now that the staff have spoken the ball is in the court of both Greater Anglia and South Western Railway and we expect a swift and positive response to the union’s call for genuine and meaningful talks to commence immediately.”



ENDS

Geoff Martin

 

[Domh245]

on South Western Railway the turn-out was 63% with a yes vote of 73%.

Can anyone say roughly what proportion of guards at SWR are commercial and non-commercial, assuming that all guard grades were balloted. I can't help but wonder if there is a bit of a divide over this action between the commercial guards who are largely unaffected by the new stock and it being DOO, and the non-commercial guards who work the suburban services who will be affected by this.

 

[footprints]

73% Yes vote on a 63% turnout is hardly an "overwhelming" endorsement of the RMT's action like they're claiming.

It seems that more than a third of those balloted couldn't care either way, while 25% of those who did respond voted no.