• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dave1987

On Moderation
Joined
20 Oct 2012
Messages
4,563
Righto. To add to irrelevant points in this thread, I've heard the price of fish has been creeping upwards lately.

Jeeeese getting fed up of all this now. Rail staff and the unions are getting hammered on this forum by certain individuals for crying wolf over using safety as an argument in the DOO argument. Grenfell is another example of where people who were concerned over safety were ignored at do it ended up costing 71 people their lives. This is all getting extremely tiresome on this forum. No one is allowed to provide any context to arguments without being accused of going off topic, that is unless you are bashing staff or the unions then it seems it’s a free for all!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Dave1987

On Moderation
Joined
20 Oct 2012
Messages
4,563
Whilst Grenfell was a tragedy, what bugs me is the number of false claims made subsequently. It was a Council and privately owned space. Oddly enough the Government is not responsible for everything, easy to blame, too easy, some like me, would say. This is open to other views and probably, given the nature of the forum, nothing at all to do with the SWR Guards starting point. The following reply could easily give a good recipe for a Thai curry or the real directions to the 'Highway to Hell'. Eager anticipation....

If you read my reply to the other such post you will see my response. :rolleyes:
 

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,035
Location
No longer here
Jeeeese getting fed up of all this now. Rail staff and the unions are getting hammered on this forum by certain individuals for crying wolf over using safety as an argument in the DOO argument. Grenfell is another example of where people who were concerned over safety were ignored at do it ended up costing 71 people their lives. This is all getting extremely tiresome on this forum. No one is allowed to provide any context to arguments without being accused of going off topic, that is unless you are bashing staff or the unions then it seems it’s a free for all!

The problem is the whole safety argument has been done in the most excruciating depth before. The entire argument has been exhausted on the GTR DOO thread and nobody can possibly have any more to say that hasn’t already been said, or add any new information that hasn’t already been made available. There are a number of reasons why Grenfell isn’t an appropriate comparison to providing a rules-trained second person on a train.

What really is tiresome is the constant claims of victimhood. Nobody is bashing staff. People are bashing the union but they are right to do so, as the union has not conducted itself well in previous disputes on other TOCs and the union was not able to negotiate the best settlement they could for their employees.

Funnily enough the RMT love playing the victim card and it hasn’t been working. The RMT has been talking about things people just don’t care about.

The definition of insanity is doing exactly the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
 
Last edited:

superalbs

Established Member
Joined
3 Jul 2014
Messages
2,460
Location
Exeter
Seeing as the train doesn't stop there on a Saturday service which is what is running on Good Friday, I think you'll find that is the reason rather than those pesky staff!
Quite why we have such an awful service in the first place is beyond me.
 

wastedlife

Member
Joined
29 Nov 2014
Messages
53
Location
Surbiton
From a SWR commuter's perspective the impact of this industrial action has been barely, if at all, perceptible. In fact, the service from my station is better on strike mornings than it is under the current timetable. SWR/Network Fail are well able to cause us considerably more angst and aggravation by virtue of the abysmal state of the infrastructure causing it to fall over regularly without the RMT getting involved. If the RMT wants to do something constructive for its members, it simply has to do something other than strike, as striking has been pathetically ineffective in pressuring SWR to do anything about it. If I were Andy Mellors I would be reflecting that my turkey appeared to have voted for Christmas again.
 

XDM

Member
Joined
9 Apr 2016
Messages
483
The South West Railway RMT ballot is NO mandate for strike action.
56% of the company's RMT guards did not vote to strike.
I am told that at least 15% of SWR guards are not RMT members or have lapsed subscriptions.
That means that more than 68% of the company's guards did not vote to strike.
Before the momentum anti DOO unit springs into action playing the old tune,
"well MPs get into parliament with just 30% of the vote, so why shouldn't there be a strike with 32% of the members wanting one."
Consider this; the strike, no strike vote is binary. But an MP is elected from a field of often 8 candidates. So 30% vote figures are likely.
Please give up the pointless rebuttal unit attack against DOO. In the time it took to write this, DOO trains around the world have covered at least 6,000 miles completely safely as they do day in & day out since 1979.
 

FenMan

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2011
Messages
1,361
Jeeeese getting fed up of all this now. Rail staff and the unions are getting hammered on this forum by certain individuals for crying wolf over using safety as an argument in the DOO argument. Grenfell is another example of where people who were concerned over safety were ignored at do it ended up costing 71 people their lives. This is all getting extremely tiresome on this forum. No one is allowed to provide any context to arguments without being accused of going off topic, that is unless you are bashing staff or the unions then it seems it’s a free for all!

I do not "bash" staff or unions. Your example is not appropriate and detracts from the discussion.
 

pompeyfan

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2012
Messages
4,181
Apparently an email has been sent to all guards stating that the previous guarantees are under threat now that the result of the latest ballot has been released, presumably in an effort to split the workforce and a show of power.
 

Bromley boy

Established Member
Joined
18 Jun 2015
Messages
4,611
The problem is the whole safety argument has been done in the most excruciating depth before. The entire argument has been exhausted on the GTR DOO thread and nobody can possibly have any more to say that hasn’t already been said, or add any new information that hasn’t already been made available. There are a number of reasons why Grenfell isn’t an appropriate comparison to providing a rules-trained second person on a train.

What really is tiresome is the constant claims of victimhood. Nobody is bashing staff. People are bashing the union but they are right to do so, as the union has not conducted itself well in previous disputes on other TOCs and the union was not able to negotiate the best settlement they could for their employees.

Funnily enough the RMT love playing the victim card and it hasn’t been working. The RMT has been talking about things people just don’t care about.

The definition of insanity is doing exactly the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Good post. I suspect many RMT members would find themselves in agreement with you.

The major problem as I see it is that the RMT leadership seems completely unwilling to let go of their ideology. The fact they would better serve their members by adopting a more pragmatic approach seems to be totally lost on them.

Unfortunately this blinkered approach is to the detriment of their members and indeed to the union’s own long term future, as has been seen on GTR with (as I understand it) the union’s continued refusal to recognise the OBS grade.
 

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,692
Location
London

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,692
Location
London
From a SWR commuter's perspective the impact of this industrial action has been barely, if at all, perceptible. In fact, the service from my station is better on strike mornings than it is under the current timetable.

While that might be your experience, the strike action has had a major impact on commuters and other travellers journeys. Less trains have been running and many commuters work from home on strike days and discretionary leisure travelers often decide not to travel at all on strike days.

Swr, especially in the London suburban area runs at about 98% capacity during peak hours and the smallest issue with either a train or infrastructure leads to delays and then more knock on delays and disruption. Removing a whole load of trains from the timetable, combined with less passengers travelling means there is more robustness to the timetable.

There is less effect when it's not full strike action, but the last type of action (which will occur over Easter) lead to a lot of late notice cancellations and trains finishing short of their original destination and starting at a point after their original originating station, so not great.
 

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
9,934
While that might be your experience, the strike action has had a major impact on commuters and other travellers journeys. Less trains have been running and many commuters work from home on strike days and discretionary leisure travelers often decide not to travel at all on strike days.

Swr, especially in the London suburban area runs at about 98% capacity during peak hours and the smallest issue with either a train or infrastructure leads to delays and then more knock on delays and disruption. Removing a whole load of trains from the timetable, combined with less passengers travelling means there is more robustness to the timetable.

There is less effect when it's not full strike action, but the last type of action (which will occur over Easter) lead to a lot of late notice cancellations and trains finishing short of their original destination and starting at a point after their original originating station, so not great.
I agree. The strikes have little personal impact on me because of the train service I'm still provided with and the fact that other people stay at home. However, others are undoubtedly impacted far more. However, overall it's nothing like the impact of the Southern strikes.
 

superalbs

Established Member
Joined
3 Jul 2014
Messages
2,460
Location
Exeter
After blaming staff for your lack of train in post 215, perhaps it would be nice to admit you were wrong and it was just your not being able to read the timetable correctly that was the problem.
I support the staff. What I'm annoyed about is that the strikes have been allowed to happen at all. I accept staff must do what they must do, and upper management need to sort it out. Hope that clears it up.
 

Bromley boy

Established Member
Joined
18 Jun 2015
Messages
4,611
I support the staff. What I'm annoyed about is that the strikes have been allowed to happen at all. I accept staff must do what they must do, and upper management need to sort it out. Hope that clears it up.

But the strikes have nothing whatsoever to do with the failure of that train to call at Pinhoe on good Friday and you were quite wrong to imply that they do.

That’s the point that was being made by the previous poster.
 

superalbs

Established Member
Joined
3 Jul 2014
Messages
2,460
Location
Exeter
But the strikes have nothing whatsoever to do with the failure of that train to call at Pinhoe on good Friday and you were quite wrong to imply that they do.

That’s the point that was being made by the previous poster.
In that case then, yes, I was wrong. Sorry for any misunderstanding or upset.
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,556
I think all voting should be compulsory. That would stop once and for all the arguments about how many voted.

This would apply for elections as muchas unions voting for / against strikes.
 

pompeyfan

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2012
Messages
4,181
A letter from Aslef doing the rounds expresses disappointment, and goes on to state some interesting features of the new rolling stock. CSDE, ASDO, ETCS, a mild form of ATO from surbiton/Barnes inwards and no door release buttons in the GOP panels.
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
8,426
Location
nowhere
a mild form of ATO from surbiton/Barnes inwards and no door release buttons in the GOP panels.

Intriguing, was this 'mild' ato in the franchise agreement or is it something above and beyond? And that latter point means that driver open guard close is an entirely viable method of operation
 

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,035
Location
No longer here
I think all voting should be compulsory. That would stop once and for all the arguments about how many voted.

This would apply for elections as muchas unions voting for / against strikes.

If people don't care, then you can't make them vote.
 

pompeyfan

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2012
Messages
4,181
Intriguing, was this 'mild' ato in the franchise agreement or is it something above and beyond? And that latter point means that driver open guard close is an entirely viable method of operation

It’s called assisted braking and door opening, basically you go over a balise which will then control the rate of decent and pull up at the correct stop mark, and will then automatically open up the doors on the correct side. I’m not sure to what extent it’s specified in the franchise.
 

Bourlea

Member
Joined
25 Oct 2015
Messages
40
It’s called assisted braking and door opening, basically you go over a balise which will then control the rate of decent and pull up at the correct stop mark, and will then automatically open up the doors on the correct side. I’m not sure to what extent it’s specified in the franchise.
So the driver is controlling / driving the train, he goes over a balise at say the end of the platform and can then just let go until the train is ready to depart the station again? Sounds like a clever system that has been designed to work on Crossrail that they think could be rolled out easily elsewhere.
Correct side door opening is a good idea (don’t Southern already have this)? Ideally all the stop marks should be at the platform ends so that would make it better for the drivers rather than different markers for different lengths of train but putting in a driver drive obeying the signals but let the train brake itself when arriving at stations system / operation, what will that achieve?
 

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,692
Location
London
Until I saw this earlier I had no real idea what assisted braking door opening was.

Guess my first question is, how is this interlinked to the signalling system. also, 'assisted braking', either the train is going to do full ato with absolutely no input from a driver or the driver is wholly responsible for the station stop.

While it seems swr intend kitting the train out with this, I wonder what the timeline is for NR to equip all lines from Waterloo to Surbiton/Barnes?
 

Bookd

Member
Joined
27 Aug 2015
Messages
445
Well they made it compusory in Australia. I don't know how well that work
Until I saw this earlier I had no real idea what assisted braking door opening was.

Guess my first question is, how is this interlinked to the signalling system. also, 'assisted braking', either the train is going to do full ato with absolutely no input from a driver or the driver is wholly responsible for the station stop.

While it seems swr intend kitting the train out with this, I wonder what the timeline is for NR to equip all lines from Waterloo to Surbiton/Barnes?
Might this be similar to my car? I am expected to drive it and stop safely, but if the car detects that I am too close to one in front it will slow down and if it decides that I am about to hit something it will do an emergency stop. I am responsible but this gives a safety backup.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
Until I saw this earlier I had no real idea what assisted braking door opening was.

Guess my first question is, how is this interlinked to the signalling system. also, 'assisted braking', either the train is going to do full ato with absolutely no input from a driver or the driver is wholly responsible for the station stop.

While it seems swr intend kitting the train out with this, I wonder what the timeline is for NR to equip all lines from Waterloo to Surbiton/Barnes?
The beacons fitted for ASDO probably include sufficient info already. They were described somewhere as including some standard data that wasn’t yet used such as correct side door enable.
 

Matt Taylor

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2008
Messages
2,339
Location
Portsmouth
While ABDO sounds intriguing it isn't really relevant to the current discussion regarding strike action by guards, expecta 'we told you so' press release from the RMT in due course regarding the lack of door release buttons for guards.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top