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SWR Repaints and Refurbishments

Goldfish62

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Saw the new mains sockets for the first time the other day, and was quite surprised how shoddily they've been fitted, with not-very-neatly cut bits of hardboard used as 'shims' behind and underneath them. I wouldn't be happy with workmanship like that in my house...
Who's the contractor for the work, or is it being done "in-house" by Siemens?
 
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Who's the contractor for the work, or is it being done "in-house" by Siemens?
I thought the same

Worth noting we are way way behind where we should be in terms of full interior refurbs

I notice a 159 has been painted in a new variant of the livery with less stripes

Quite a mess with one brand on the outside and another inside then again First excel at this with FGW sorry I meant GWR
 

TEW

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Worth noting we are way way behind where we should be in terms of full interior refurbs
Quite some way behind indeed, we currently have 0, the whole fleet was supposed to be done by December 2018.
 

D2007wsm

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I thought the same

Worth noting we are way way behind where we should be in terms of full interior refurbs

I notice a 159 has been painted in a new variant of the livery with less stripes

Quite a mess with one brand on the outside and another inside then again First excel at this with FGW sorry I meant GWR
It will get there, sometimes a train is due a repaint as part of an exam. What is the point of repainting in the old livery, just to be repainted in the new livery when the interior is done?
 

cactustwirly

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Saw the new mains sockets for the first time the other day, and was quite surprised how shoddily they've been fitted, with not-very-neatly cut bits of hardboard used as 'shims' behind and underneath them. I wouldn't be happy with workmanship like that in my house...

The plug sockets in the 165s have been done more professionally from what I've seen
 

pompeyfan

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I thought the same

Worth noting we are way way behind where we should be in terms of full interior refurbs

I notice a 159 has been painted in a new variant of the livery with less stripes

Quite a mess with one brand on the outside and another inside then again First excel at this with FGW sorry I meant GWR

Interesting that there’s a 159 with fewer stripes. I’ll have to keep an eye out.
 

TEW

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Interesting that there’s a 159 with fewer stripes. I’ll have to keep an eye out.
Just stripes on the blue parts at the end of the train and the doors. The rest is now a plain grey/white. 159005 is the unit in that livery, going forward this will be the livery applied to all units.
 

43096

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Just stripes on the blue parts at the end of the train and the doors. The rest is now a plain grey/white. 159005 is the unit in that livery, going forward this will be the livery applied to all units.
Typical of the MDTR. Can't get it right at the start so we end up with numerous variations on what should be standard schemes. Suppose it is what comes from letting the designers lose with their crayons on acres of sticky-backed plastic.
 

capital12

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Typical of the MDTR. Can't get it right at the start so we end up with numerous variations on what should be standard schemes. Suppose it is what comes from letting the designers lose with their crayons on acres of sticky-backed plastic.

Not always the designers fault as such - but I get your point! If the client brief is poor (and that wouldn’t surprise me with First!) and no one has the skills to keep the designer in check whilst still getting the best out of them, you’ll end up with a mess like this!

Unfortunately First, with a few exceptions, don’t really ‘get it’.
 

dorsetdesiro

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FirstGroup/SWR should have gone with a fuss-free design like GWR's livery a simple single colour all over (apart from the doors obviously). Extend the existing dark/anthracite blue at the ends to the whole carriage omitting the grey sections.

This could appear similar to Southeastern's livery however with grey doors instead of light blue and the diagonal lines present on the SWR version.
 

capital12

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Ironically the spoof (or was it genuine and they changed their mind?!) SWR livery that appeared in GWR style was a million times better than what they went with!
 

Goldfish62

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Typical of the MDTR. Can't get it right at the start so we end up with numerous variations on what should be standard schemes. Suppose it is what comes from letting the designers lose with their crayons on acres of sticky-backed plastic.
Bit like the multiple variations of NSE livery before settling on a final version.

I haven't seen this unit, but it sounds worse. The pale silver stripes on the white was the one striking part of the livery, I thought.
 

Goldfish62

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I thought the same

Worth noting we are way way behind where we should be in terms of full interior refurbs

I notice a 159 has been painted in a new variant of the livery with less stripes

Quite a mess with one brand on the outside and another inside then again First excel at this with FGW sorry I meant GWR
Give it a bit of time. SWT went through three brands before they settled on one, plus it was initially quite normal to find 455s in NSE livery with red seats and in SWT livery with NSE seats until the whole lot got done.
 

fgwrich

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Saw the new mains sockets for the first time the other day, and was quite surprised how shoddily they've been fitted, with not-very-neatly cut bits of hardboard used as 'shims' behind and underneath them. I wouldn't be happy with workmanship like that in my house...

The plug sockets in the 165s have been done more professionally from what I've seen

I was just about to mention the 165s - Unfortunately some of those are not as well done either. Like the Desiro fitment I have also noticed materials used as packing being the plug socket. Then, and whether or not this is as a result of vandalism I don't know but I've noticed more of the plastic wall panels being either cracked or split as of late emanating from where the plug socket is.

Still, I wonder how Siemens will be coping with the layout changes in the 450s and getting around the window locations. It can't be as bad and as bizarre as GWRs seat swapping in the 2 car "Bristol" turbos, with the oddly and very cheaply done conversion of the former first class section - I had one of the so far converted units yesterday, New carpet, standard class seats. No cleanup of the walls so you could makeout the outline of the old seats in the dirt, The overhead reading lights just had their bulbs removed. Doesn't paint a good impression of First Group!

Not always the designers fault as such - but I get your point! If the client brief is poor (and that wouldn’t surprise me with First!) and no one has the skills to keep the designer in check whilst still getting the best out of them, you’ll end up with a mess like this!

Unfortunately First, with a few exceptions, don’t really ‘get it’.

What I don't get with First and First Group in general is that it's not the first time we've seen this from them. It's like they seem to have an allergy to their own branding. On the bus side it took them many years to finally settle with "Barbie 2". They then went and replaced it with the so called 2012 "Olympia" scheme - which was only supposed to be applied to new or refurbished vehicles only. That message got lost, the whole fleet starts painfully moving over to it and you ended up with situations like SWR and GWR - Think old tatty Olympians/Darts/Presidents turning out in the new livery, retaining their old tatty scruffy interiors. A few years down the road, Olympia get's modified and now first cant make up it's mind again - does it want to repaint vehicles or not, or come up with a localised version of Olymipa or just do a Kernow and bin it all together.

On the railways it's the same too - I know some didn't like it, but I did. The Lambie-Nairn designed Dynamic Lines. Finally, 2007 Sees First come up with a smart modern and co-hesive brand across it's TOCs. There were some small revisions - TPE and FGW took "Dynamic Lines", FGW Modified it for the West Country with it's "Local Lines" scheme, FCC went for the "City Lights" given it's area of operating, and Hull modified theirs again. That was a scheme that simply took the First Group colours then ran with it with 4 smart and modern schemes that still looks good to this day, Just as Stagecoach does with it's TOCs, and to some previous extent so did Arriva. Then in 2015 First Group decides it doesn't want it's TOCs to appear to be part of First Group brand and started the, as of 3 years later, messy GWR rebrand - Of course followed by TPE, Hull Trains and now SWR. GWR Seems to have tried to keep its drab livery fairly consistent - only changing the location of the silly sash - It hasn't however got to grips with the interiors yet though. TPE seems to have been a hit and thankfully hasn't been revised as of yet, SWR seems to have fallen back into the First Group trap and cant make up its mind again.

Hopefully SWR will now find itself a livery it can be happy with. Personally rather than having the silvery stripy diagonals, I'd have just painted the bodyside Silver than light grey (as per 159005) - As per Wessex's Silver 158s or the equally similar Chiltern Railways livery. I won't deny though I'm still not overly keen on the SWR Scheme or the little Ski Chalet style logo. But, after nearly 11 months of First/MTR operation of SWR, the amount of SWT branding that remains across the fleet and network does leave SWR in a poor and confusing light.
 
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fgwrich

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On a slightly more positive note for SWR, I've had two of their Sprinter fleet in the past week. The SWT "Refreshed" 158 was pretty uncomfortable to sit in as the cushioning in the seats was still pretty hard. The SWR 159 was surprisingly more comfortable with a more comfortable seat. The cloth wasn't as rough as some others can be either.

Best not to mention the air conditioning though...
 

Goldfish62

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I was just about to mention the 165s - Unfortunately some of those are not as well done either. Like the Desiro fitment I have also noticed materials used as packing being the plug socket. Then, and whether or not this is as a result of vandalism I don't know but I've noticed more of the plastic wall panels being either cracked or split as of late emanating from where the plug socket is.

Still, I wonder how Siemens will be coping with the layout changes in the 450s and getting around the window locations. It can't be as bad and as bizarre as GWRs seat swapping in the 2 car "Bristol" turbos, with the oddly and very cheaply done conversion of the former first class section - I had one of the so far converted units yesterday, New carpet, standard class seats. No cleanup of the walls so you could makeout the outline of the old seats in the dirt, The overhead reading lights just had their bulbs removed. Doesn't paint a good impression of First Group!



What I don't get with First and First Group in general is that it's not the first time we've seen this from them. It's like they seem to have an allergy to their own branding. On the bus side it took them many years to finally settle with "Barbie 2". They then went and replaced it with the so called 2012 "Olympia" scheme - which was only supposed to be applied to new or refurbished vehicles only. That message got lost, the whole fleet starts painfully moving over to it and you ended up with situations like SWR and GWR - Think old tatty Olympians/Darts/Presidents turning out in the new livery, with their old scruffy interiors. A few years down the road, Olympia get's modified and now first cant make up it's mind again - does it want to repaint vehicles or not, or come up with a localised version of Olymipa or just do a Kernow and bin it all together.

On the railways it's the same too - I know some didn't like it, but I did. The Lambie-Nairn designed Dynamic Lines. Finally, 2007 Sees First come up with a smart modern and co-hesive brand across it's TOCs. There were some small revisions - TPE and FGW took "Dynamic Lines", FGW Modified it for the West Country with it's "Local Lines" scheme, FCC went for the "City Lights" given it's area of operating, and Hull modified theirs again. As scheme that simply took the First Group colours then ran with it with 4 smart schemes. Just as Stagecoach does with it's TOCs, and to some previous extent so did Arriva. Then in 2015 they decide that they didn't want to appear to be part of First Group and started the, as of 3 years later, messy GWR rebrand - Of course followed by TPE, Hull Trains and now SWR. GWR Seems to have tried to keep its drab livery fairly similar - only changing the location of the silly sash. TPE seems to have been a hit and thankfully hasn't been revised yet, SWR seems to have fallen into the First Group trap.

Hopefully SWR will now find itself a livery it can be happy with. Personally rather than having the silvery stripy diagonals, I'd have just painted the bodyside Silver than light grey (as per 159005) - As per Wessex's Silver 158s or the equally similar Chiltern Railways livery. I won't deny though I'm still not overly keen on the SWR Scheme or the little Ski Chalet style logo. But, after nearly 11 months of First/MTR operation of SWR, the amount of SWT branding that remains across the fleet and network does leave SWR in a poor and confusing light.
Well said. Can't disagree with any of that.

Even with First Kernow where they have in theory dumped the dismal First brand for a very smart new one it's a complete jumbled mess over two years after the new brand was launched.
 

Goldfish62

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Just seen on Twatter in response to a question on refurbishments that SWR replied that it "would take some time and won't be completed before 2020". Oh well, just another franchise breach to add to the list.
 

winks

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It is indeed a breach of contract. Maybe they’re not interested given they want to renegotiate. 442s are on hold too ?
 

Goldfish62

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It is indeed a breach of contract. Maybe they’re not interested given they want to renegotiate. 442s are on hold too ?
Doesn't seem a good idea to me to breach on something unconnected with timetabling and expect it to be thrown in the melting pot as well. Would have looked more favourable if they were actually ahead of the refurb timescales. But then this is a company that can't even remove all SWT branding nearly a year after franchise start.

Yes, I'm losing patience with SWR. I wanted to give them a chance but it's all wearing a bit thin now.
 

moley

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Just seen on Twatter in response to a question on refurbishments that SWR replied that it "would take some time and won't be completed before 2020". Oh well, just another franchise breach to add to the list.

It is indeed a breach of contract. Maybe they’re not interested given they want to renegotiate. 442s are on hold too ?

Are you sure its a breach. If you read the franchise agreement, the Class 158/159s are the last stock to be refurbished and that is planned to finish by 31 December 2020. (para 33.1 of schedule 6.2 of the agreement).
 

Goldfish62

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Are you sure its a breach. If you read the franchise agreement, the Class 158/159s are the last stock to be refurbished and that is planned to finish by 31 December 2020. (para 33.1 of schedule 6.2 of the agreement).
I believe the statement was in response to a question about 450s. The franchise agreement requires their completion by next March. Not going to happen.
 

387star

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:rolleyes:Another month

Maybe a fully refurbished 442 or 444/450 will emerge
 

traji00

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159005 at Clapham Junction, in the amended livery:

72AA463F-F14A-49DA-8FE8-3104023D7404.jpeg
 
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dorsetdesiro

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159005 at Clapham Junction, in the amended livery:

Well, I don't know what to make of that. It seems like a quick job to get things rolling as the refurbishment programme seems to be moving at a snail's pace. Anyone seen 444040 around yet? It hasn't been seen for months!

It looks like a quasi-hybrid SWT/SWR combination, perhaps temporary like what WMR are doing (as their older trains will be leaving the franchise soon) but only that the 158s & 159s are not going anywhere quite yet, so this seems lazy and sloppy.

I'd like to see the white sections to be in silver, matching the doors, even without the diagonal vinyls if this is too fiddly to apply.
 

dorsetdesiro

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Another thought here,

159005 may be the first to receive this quasi-livery which I reckon the same will be applied to all yet-to-be-refurbished 158s/159s, 442s (with their GX livery) and 444s, that the SWT white sections will be retained with the dark blue SWR vinyls placed straight on at the ends.

This may be quicker to do for the short-term as SWR may be facing criticism for their current woes, unhurried refurbishment and for still running many trains with the previous SWT livery so this is like "damage limitation" to show they are taking action or control.
 

winks

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If you look at the pic the livery colours cut through the window it looks quite harsh and not thought through but at least its not SWT
 

TEW

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As discussed up thread, this will be the SWR livery applied going forward, as it is cheaper and simpler to apply.
 

Goldfish62

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As discussed up thread, this will be the SWR livery applied going forward, as it is cheaper and simpler to apply.
The one positive thing is that it means more paint, less vinyl. On the previous version the vertical vinyl joins on the pale bodyside were very evident. Just looks a bit dull now.
 

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