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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by superalbs, 16 Aug 2017.
Thanks for that article, but how are some people able to tell the class of the train like a 444, 377, 450, 159 e.t.c?
Given that 45 450s were part refurbished we're almost at 50% of the fleet being at least partly done.
The data comes from a stream published by Network rail. Each service is timed to a certain class of train or certain group of trains. 377s, 444s and 450s are all down as 100mph EMUs on the system, but I’d be willing to bet that a 377s on exactly the same run would leave a 444 for dust because of its better dwell times and acceleration.
It takes a bit of knowledge to use the data - there is a feed for exactly which unit is supposed to operate which service but this is not made public - some members here do have access to it by virtue of being railway staff and there is a dedicated thread to request this information but due to the nature of such requests, that's predominantly only useful if you're asking after the journey has already occurred.
To work out just what class it is, you can use the timing load as a guide - that's not a guarantee that the unit it describes will be what operates the service, but the speed of the unit helps (e.g. 158s and 170s are both timed as 'express sprinters' but if the speed shows 100mph it's clearly likely to be a 170, and if it shows 90mph, a 158). Between several 'Electric multiple unit (100mph)' classes, you can't really tell other than by having historic knowledge of what typically operates that particular service.
They either have access to internal systems that show the booked traction, or have sight of unofficial copies of the internal traction diagrams or the station Carriage Working Notices (CWNs).
But many such comments come from day to day observations, eg I know that SWRs Ascot - Guildford service is normally 450 operated, anything else would be a short term reaction to a problem.
After using Weymouth to Waterloo frequently and various other SWR routes, on the same timetable for in excess of 10 years, I have personally just 'learned' what to expect on each service. Normally works pretty well.
"Full refurb" meaning inside and out?
Interior only, the exteriors are aimed to be completed for the end of 2021... will be a while yet.
Décor and rearranging of First Class then.
And sockets in Standard class. Repaints start this year and will take three years because they're getting a full rub-down and prep. No nasty vinyls.
Seen today at Northam 444025 has been refurbished
On 444009 yesterday - interior refurb done. Correction - not 444009 - my mistake - on 444025 yesterday morning, working the 2W09 0719 Southampton to Weymouth and yes, interior refurb done!
444003 to be next as far as I know.
I accidentally thought I was sitting in 1st class as the seats were blue, but after a few seconds realised I was not I wish they kept the red seats!
Jan Modern Railways reports that the interior alterations should take 4 days of 24 hour working, and also that they have 4 units in hand at a time - 3 x 450 and a 444. So one unit should be finished each day from now on. Ambitious?
Are poles and rails still orange or now yellow as someone reported?
All original orange that I’ve seen recently.
Full refurbishment of trains:
444003, 444010, 444019, 444020, 444025 & 444040.(13% complete)
450015, 450032, 450081, 450091, 450094, 450100, 450113, 450115, 450119 & 450122 (7% complete)
Let me know if any more trains have been fully refurbished and I will edit this post regularly
Currently on 450100 and all poles and door side grab handles are orange.
450032 fully refurbished.
Ok I'll add that to the list
Hearing that 444003 is refurbished. Can anyone confirm?
That is correct.
Very, but they need to work at that rate to finish it by May. The franchise agreement requires completion by the end of March so I suppose being just a few weeks late isn't too bad, especially considering how long the programme took to actually start properly.
The March deadline is actually a backstop date - they should have been delivered ne for December. The failure to deliver is entirely down to SWR - hopefully DfT are penalising them for missing contractual dates.
How is the backstop date defined? In other words how would you argue that they missed the December deadline rather than the March deadline?
The wording in the franchise agreement is as follows:
"The Franchisee shall:
(a) use all reasonable endeavours to modify and refresh all Class 444 and Class 450 rolling stock vehicles comprised in the Train Fleet by no later than 31 December 2018, provided that the Franchisee shall not be in breach of the Franchise Agreement if it has not done so by such date if it has used all reasonable endeavours to do so. Under such circumstances the Franchisee shall continue to use all reasonable endeavours to comply with such obligation as soon as reasonably practicable and in any event shall modify and refresh all Class 444 and Class 450 rolling stock vehicles comprised in the Train Fleet by no later than 31 March 2019."
So the December date was a "best endeavours" aspiration (i.e. Worst didn't believe they could meet it) and they are only in breach of contract when they miss the March date (which they will). Note that the requirement is to modify and refresh - so includes the seat layout changes and other works - which means the part-done Class 450s do not count towards contract compliance.
Thanks, yes that confirms my understanding. The breach will be for the time taken after March, not December. According to Modern Railways the May completion date includes finishing off the part refurbs, which won't need so much time.
Given everything that's been going wrong on the railways in general I can't see SWR being hauled over the coals for a deadline missed by a couple of months, assuming of course they do achieve May.
There still ought to be some sort of penalty - to be reinvested for the benefit of passengers. They are similarly behind with the Class 442s.
Add in the failure to deliver the new timetable in December and SWR are a serial misser of deadlines.